[ani_meher]

I was a strong supporter of the Etios twins since their scoop, then became a strong opponent seeing the appearant lack of quality and gunnybag material seats. Now, after seeing Liva Cross in person, I am back to neutral. I feel Toyota has slowly but surely improved the cars.

The speedo meter in the middle doesn't make any difference to me. It will just be a matter of forming a new habit. If Liva gets launched in above shown avatar, it may become a serious competition in the segment.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

You are comparing the sales of a Toyota to the American and German? Going by the success of their higher segment cars (For good reason), I don't think Toyota could care much about how many VW's and Ford's are on the road. Their aim must have surely been to get close to Suzuki and Hyundai numbers. Now where do they stand with the Liva/Etios? Nowhere.

I don't think Toyota's aim was to get close to Suzuki and Hyundai numbers. Suzuki and Hyundai numbers are nowhere near Toyota in higher segment cars. I think their aim was just to have a presence in lower segment cars.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

I like the way the Etios drives and I am sure the Liva drives nice as well. The TRD is sweet. However; that is about the only thing I like about it.

Actually that's the only thing I care about when it comes to cars. Beacuse that's what matters finally.

Originally Posted by sandeepmohan

It was nice to read your views on your car. What speed and rpm do you see from the drivers seat. Let us know if its as accurate when you see the meter console dead straight. Are the meters angled towards the driver?

No, the meters are not angled towards the driver. But parallax error is well corrected. So, the speed and rpm seen from the driver's seat are absolutely correct.

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I used to own an Etios for more than a year and now I own an Innova. From a practical standpoint (looking at the instrument cluster without completely taking your eyes off the road) centrally mounted instrument cluster is better than the conventional one.

Yes, absolutely agree. A centrally mounted cluster actually scores over conventional cluster on this point. I can look at the cluster without taking my eyes off the road.

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I am now a days getting seriously pissed at the increasing herd mentality of BHP-ians. Instead of objectively analyzing the cars we have started criticizing them based on hear say and what not.
Sorry for this rant.

+1 to this.
T-BHP is a forum where a "car" used to be taken seriously. It's gradually turning into a forum for cosmetics.

[Vitalstatistiks]

Toyota have done great work with Etios and Liva but IMO the product is criticized for largely one reason- dated looks, inside-out. Every other criticism is a sub-set of that. Are we, the Indian janta, fools for placing 'looks' at such high pedestal in our car buying criteria? I don't know, but it is what it is. Toyota could have rectified that in the face lift and seen the car fly off the shelves. But I am sure they have practical and commercial reason to not deviate much. I am not sure changing design of headlamps, for e.g., is as easy as some of us think. It changes the grill, bonnet design etc. and I am sure that requires some investment and changes to agreements with third parties who supply different parts. It is for a reason that a car sells in a particular design for sometime before a major overhaul. May be in the cost-benefit analysis, it did not work for Toyota to, say, change placement of instrument cluster right now. Just my thoughts on this. Will be happy to hear from someone in automotive industry if my assumptions are true.

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I am now a days getting seriously pissed at the increasing herd mentality of BHP-ians. Instead of objectively analyzing the cars we have started criticizing them based on hear say and what not.

So I am not the only one getting this feeling sometimes.

[sandeepmohan]

Originally Posted by mroptimist

How can you ever come to know what is most accurate?

Well; I have not spent enough time in a Etios/Liva to be able to comment which is why I asked the question. Being a past owner, I was hoping even you could throw some light on this. We now know it isn't angled towards the driver and its still legible.

Even then, those clocks look relic on what is supposed to be a new car.

[MadAbtCars]

Dear Friends and fellow Bhpians, let us not criticize the forum or the views of any members. We as members are supposed to give our critical analysis of a car and not the forum or members. Everyone has the right to his / her own views.

I totally stand for the overall package and the experience the Liva or Etios offers and the trouble free ownership experience offered by Toytoa. Till date I haven't experienced a better dealership experience other than Toyota and this experience I am not only talking from the dealerships of Metro's and Tier - I cities. The overall quality and experience is standard and absolutely top notch in Tier-II and other cities.

But then again coming to the main Point, even today where almost every household has at least one car and India is moving towards being a country where automobiles are no longer an item of luxury but is more of a necessity, why wouldn't I want my car be a style statement ? In spite of being a proud owner an Liva, I do accept that the car is dull looking. The only reason I got this car was because I managed to get a good discount and the dealership did a wonderful job at overhauling the entire interiors which made it look very premium. The cost estimated for the entire interior makeup at the dealership was around 40K which I had got free of cost. (I can post some pics of the interiors if you want)

Team-BHP is still a great site and there doesn't exist a question with regards to automobiles that won't have an answer here.

[Astraholic]

On a lighter note, the new grill reminds me of Mater from Disney.Pixar "Cars" movie

[puchoo]

I am sure we can find studies which would suggest that it is better from the cluster to be mounted in the middle .......... and then i am sure we can find studies which suggest it should be placed in front of the driver , there is no point thinking too much about this , at the end of the day this is a personal decision - if someone is ok with it , like some owners are then alright , if someone does not want to buy the car because of it then that's also all right..

And let me also point to the elephant in the room here , how many of us would actually honestly complain if we got a center mounted cluster but with a design theme like the one below ? Sure, more expensive car etc is obvious , the question is really put forward in principle.

[CRtorquefan]

Originally Posted by puchoo

I am sure we can find studies which would suggest that it is better from the cluster to be mounted in the middle .......... and then i am sure we can find studies which suggest it should be placed in front of the driver , there is no point thinking too much about this , at the end of the day this is a personal decision - if someone is ok with it , like some owners are then alright , if someone does not want to buy the car because of it then that's also all right..

Since Etios has always been complained of poor looking dashboard, whatever their studies suggest or explanation they owe in the brochures of Etios twins.

Initial complains were of High NVH in Etios twins, but they were addressed last year. Since Etios is a well rounded package now marred only by its dashboard layout, then why not to replace it with facelift,
chance for which they're getting every year. Mahindra did it this time with Scorpio facelift to make already a better one more better.

What Toyota vision is about these etios twins !

I guess they're reserving everything new for All-new Etios range scheduled for 2015-2016 rather than to bank on this averaging product which is at mid or even late-mid of its lifecycle.

Btw Toyota India, hire me i can do a project for you on small car feasibility in India than mis-interpreting the concept.

[arnabchak]

What a great "Facelift"!!

Indeed. The face has been lifted and the major grouse with the Etios twins remains.

The Taxi like central console remain and so does the el cheapo interiors.

Why did Toyota waste so much money on splashing a chrome grille in the first place?

They should have saved it for the major refresh and not give this mid life makeover at all.

Call it "Penny wise Pound foolish" or "Penny foolish, pound foolish", either ways, Toyota stays the fool!!

[thoma]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

T-BHP is a forum where a "car" used to be taken seriously. It's gradually turning into a forum for cosmetics.

Because there are umpteen number of facelifts (phew, at least sticker jobs have given way to chrome jobs!) from most players spewed into the market to camouflage aging designs!? Is that all the Indian engineer and manager could afford to give back to the nation?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by p'arth

No car with Central location of meters has succeeded - ethos indica or spark. It's time to kill this concept altogether.

Not really. The Spark was a consistent 3,000 / month seller....sometimes even higher than that. Not bad considering the weak sales push it has from Chevy.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

I don't think Toyota's aim was to get close to Suzuki and Hyundai numbers.

True. But that doesn't take away from the fact that the Etios & Liva have performed below Toyota's own sales expectations.

adding that the company aims to sell 70,000 sedans and small cars from the Etios platform in 2011.

Source

Even in 2014, the Etios platform twins don't manage 70K units a year.

[puchoo]

Originally Posted by CRtorquefan

Since etios is a well rounded package now marred only by its dasboard layout, then why not to replace it with facelift, chance for which they're getting every year.

I guess they're reserving everything new for All-new Etios range scheduled for 2015-2016 rather than to bank on this averaging product which is at mid or even late-mid of its lifecycle.

No and i think enough, i am not saying all , people will disagree when you write it is a well rounded car - for many it might not even be an issue of the location of the instrument cluster as much as say an 'older' looking design so yes the location of the cluster is one reason but i probably would not extend myself to say it is the only reason now.

And i was not aware that a new one is coming out in 2015-16 - if that is true then i think you have answered your own question on why they did not bother to do anything about it right now.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by isiv

...So why the Toyota bashing? ...

Because this is a car which feels cheap but costs big. The other ones don't!

If you do a comparison with Swift, this car looks outright cheap but charged a premium with lesser features. When I TDed a diesel Liva, the car was no where close to Swift; except "space" - I would easily pay a premium for the Swift.

[1100D]

The Taxi market though, is waking up to the fact that older Etios' do age gracefully. Interacting with a few acquaintances who have been in the cab business, am learning that despite the simplistic approach (lack of initial WOW factor that private buyers look to impress with) and signs of cost optimisations, the cars are actually holding up quite well (similar to the Qualis story) with age. They are (the petrol ones) not bad to drive either.

[ranjan84]

Originally Posted by PCS

Launch is some time mid October.

New chrome grill. Looks awesome. Nissan Micra type if I can recollect.
AIRBAGS STANDARD FOR ETIOS AND LIVA !!!!! He says company has adopted new safety step.

Airbags and ABS will now be available as an option across the board. In the outgoing variant, the SP option is available only on G and V trims.