[Sheel]

Anyone looking to upgrade from their Scorpio/Safari would 9 times out of 10, settle for a Fortuner/Pajero Sport and be happy with it, but what if some one wishes to spend extra? And what about the guys who already have a Fortuner/Pajero Sport?

I do know quite a few people who wish to purchase a full blown SUV in the 40L-50L price bracket, want it to look like a 50L product (butch looking, big & bulky) and succeed the Toyota Fortuner in every way, but they don't come across a product like that.

The true successors, namely the Mitsubishi Montero is no longer being sold in India and the Toyota Prado has priced itself out of reach for many.

Are there any products in India which are natural successors to the Toyota Fortuner/Mitsubishi Pajero Sport? Or which feels like a big upgrade from your Scorpio/Safari?

Why do manufacturers shy away from launching products like that? Any products from manufacturers present in India which are sold globally, but are not sold in India?

And there are few (quite a lot actually) people who will always equate price with size and for them, the Q's & X's don't provide that + they are expensive to buy, run and maintain.

A product from a manufacturer which has presence in tier 2&3 cities will do well. I can vouch for that, as a car for many has become as a style statement or a symbol of prestige & luxury. I have seen tapri houses having 2 Fortuner's parked outside.

[dean5545]

The Prado if priced at 45lakhs ex showroom would be a good buy. But they have priced it now at 1cr ex showroom.
Now even the Fortuner touches 30 lakhs in Mumbai!
I don't why Volkswagen doesn't have a single SUV in this price bracket it would totally boost their premium image.
Leaving aside the Prado Toyota has 2-3 more models to fit in this range.

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by dean5545

I don't why Volkswagen doesn't have a single SUV in this price bracket

Now that you mention Volkswagen, a quick look at their website reveals that they have quietly decided to do away with Touareg and they advertised its water wading capacity & hill climbing angles all over (when it was launched)

I didn't know why it has been discontinued so early, sales number do tell a story, but still...

[Samurai]

Just checked the price of Prado and was flabbergasted. When and how did they jump from 45L to 85L? What new features were added to justify such a jump?

[Parm]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Anyone looking to upgrade from their Scorpio/Safari would 9 times out of 10, settle for a Fortuner/Pajero Sport and be happy with it, but what if some one wishes to spend extra? And what about the guys who already have a Fortuner/Pajero Sport?

I do know quite a few people who wish to purchase a full blown SUV in the 40L-50L price bracket, want it to look like a 50L product (butch looking, big & bulky) and succeed the Toyota Fortuner in every way, but they don't come across a product like that.

The true successors, namely the Mitsubishi Montero is no longer being sold in India and the Toyota Prado has priced itself out of reach for many.

Are there any products in India which are natural successors to the Toyota Fortuner/Mitsubishi Pajero Sport? Or which feels like a big upgrade from your Scorpio/Safari?

Why do manufacturers shy away from launching products like that? Any products from manufacturers present in India which are sold globally, but are not sold in India?

And there are few (quite a lot actually) people who will always equate price with size and for them, the Q's & X's don't provide that + they are expensive to buy, run and maintain.

A product from a manufacturer which has presence in tier 2&3 cities will do well. I can vouch for that, as a car for many has become as a style statement or a symbol of prestige & luxury. I have seen tapri houses having 2 Fortuner's parked outside.

Has any market survey done to find the appeal of the 40-50 Lakhs segment, the volume?

No product to fit that segment from all the OEMs collectively shows that this particular segment might not be appealing to the customer.

On the contrary, the compact SUV/Sub 4meter segment and the sub 20L segment is the most sought after SUV segment as it is where the "rise" is the demand is!

The middle class has the desire, the aspirations and the moolah to buy any SUV sub 20-30 Lakhs dictates the volumes.

The gap of 40-50 Lakhs, I think, will always be there as long as the volumes are not there.

The OEMs are here to make money and its all pure business sense and not the social service.

[dean5545]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I didn't know why it has been discontinued so early, sales number do tell a story, but still...

So the only option available with Volkswagen is also gone now!

Originally Posted by Samurai

Just checked the price of Prado and was flabbergasted. When and how did they jump from 45L to 85L? What new features were added to justify such a jump?

It's better than the 2010 version significantly but the powertrain remains the same so wouldn't call it a perfect upgrade to the Fortuner.
I had checked the value of the Landcruiser Prado on zauba and found it to be 33 lakhs approx. add taxes and everything it crosses 90lakhs I guess.
Btw the ex showroom price is not 85 but 1cr.

Coming to the topic at hand I have seen most of the people who are upgrading from a Fortuner will always want an SUV from the German trio. They as it is don't take it off-road so for them the image matters lot more then.

Even if Toyota plans to make the Prado ckd they wouldn't be able to price it below 50lakhs,at that price point 90% will think of buying a Mercedes, Audi or BMW. Because no matter how big a Toyota fan I may be the Prado or the LC200 just can't match the mercs or BMWs in the fit and finish department and the uber feel.
Sure both these cars are packed with tons of gizmos but still will you buy a car with an engine that is already present in a car which is cheaper and lighter?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by dean5545

Btw the ex showroom price is not 85 but 1cr.

I was going by the price list on Toyota Web site. Why is it different from your number?

[RavSam]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Just checked the price of Prado and was flabbergasted. When and how did they jump from 45L to 85L? What new features were added to justify such a jump?

If Toyota can almost double the price of Innova and still see a lot of people going for it why won't they do the same with the Prado?

Coming back to the topic I wonder why the launch of Jeep's Wrangler and Grand Cherokee has been delayed so much.

Also Isuzu's India assembled/made updated MU7 is worth waiting for (the current one is a bit old).

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by Parm

Has any market survey done to find the appeal of the 40-50 Lakhs segment, the volume?

I am not talking from a manufacturer's POV. But it sure is a thing to ponder upon. At a very small place like mine, I have seen people splitting hair on what to buy as their upgrade from a Fortuner or what to buy over and above this price bracket & escape this class.

No product to fit that segment from all the OEMs collectively shows that this particular segment might not be appealing to the customer.

I and a quite a lot of us do not think so.

On the contrary, the compact SUV/Sub 4meter segment and the sub 20L segment is the most sought after SUV segment as it is where the "rise" is the demand is!

The middle class has the desire, the aspirations and the moolah to buy any SUV sub 20-30 Lakhs dictates the volumes.

OT for this thread.

The gap of 40-50 Lakhs, I think, will always be there as long as the volumes are not there.

The OEMs are here to make money and its all pure business sense and not the social service.

Honestly, what makes you think that there are no volumes in this segment? When a sedan of 10L or 15L sells, so does a SUV in that price bracket.

Compare as to how much a Fortuner sells with respect to sedans in that price range.

When a sedan at a price bracket of 50L can sell (it won't generate as many volumes) why not a SUV?

And what makes you think OEM's won't make any money? They are not here for charity. After launching a product anywhere (from grounds up or from their stable) they will work on its pricing & then launch it. Few manufacturers already have products which they would have certainly done with out. Volvo V40, Skoda Yeti to just name a few.

This is an untapped market, I don't recall a product in this price range which is a SUV and was/is available especially after the car market in India has boomed, people are buying fancy set of wheels and are ready to splurge.

Originally Posted by dean5545

Coming to the topic at hand I have seen most of the people who are upgrading from a Fortuner will always want an SUV from the German trio. They as it is don't take it off-road so for them the image matters lot more then.

Even if Toyota plans to make the Prado ckd they wouldn't be able to price it below 50lakhs,at that price point 90% will think of buying a Mercedes, Audi or BMW. Because no matter how big a Toyota fan I may be the Prado or the LC200 just can't match the mercs or BMWs in the fit and finish department and the uber feel.

This is what I wanted to highlight upon. Cars by the Germans are not that rugged/reliable for them to splurge upon. Sure one can spend 50L, but for 'em (who are upgrading from a 25L SUV), a 50L SUV is a big investment.

Badge is an attraction, but not always.

Few have tested water with a Q3/X1 and didn't like it. GC/reliability and that they being fragile on country roads doesn't work out.

There are all classes of buyers not just guys living in metros who go to malls & climb up a footpath as their claim to fame of buying a SUV

[mroptimist]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Just checked the price of Prado and was flabbergasted. When and how did they jump from 45L to 85L? What new features were added to justify such a jump?

I think it's mainly because of CBU import duty hike from 106% to 130% and state's VAT and excise duties over and above the import duty. Ofcourse Toyota's greed should also be added to the above equation.

The only way of bringing down price of Prado is to make it CKD. I heard a rumor in one of TKM dealerships of Toyota bringing one more SUV above Fortuner, may be FJCruiser. Keeping fingers crossed.

Thanks.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I was going by the price list on Toyota Web site. Why is it different from your number?

I think he means Landcruiser 200 and not the Prado, which is 85 as you have mentioned.

Originally Posted by mroptimist

I heard a rumor in one of TKM dealerships of Toyota bringing one more SUV above Fortuner, may be FJCruiser. Keeping fingers crossed.

The FJ Cruiser has been discontinued globally if I'm not mistaken.

Sheel - Was in a similar dilemma, before just settling for the X3. I guess Jeep, when launched will fill this void. Though hopefully it won't be the barebones Wrangler but the Grand Cherokee in this pricepoint.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by Sheel

I am not talking from a manufacturer's POV.

But that is what decides the products that are developed and launched.

Originally Posted by Sheel

Badge is an attraction, but not always.

That is applicable to us enthusiasts and knowledgeable customers. How many?

Originally Posted by Sheel

Few have tested water with a Q3/X1 and didn't like it. GC/reliability and that they being fragile on country roads doesn't work out.

It does, for most, which is why they sell.
Not a lot of people/customers would look at anything but a Euro/German brand after the INR 25.00 lac bracket.

Originally Posted by Sheel

There are all classes of buyers not just guys living in metros who go to malls & climb up a footpath as their claim to fame of buying a SUV

Again, how many?

[ACM]

Toyota could bring in the Four Runner at about 40L and do almost another 1000 units per month on it. Prado is not worth twice let alone thrice the fortuner price. Montero did not sell in sufficient numbers.
So above 50L German is the way to go.

In my view For tuner itself is not worth more than 20L when one considers the XUV, Storme etc pricing.

[asit.kulkarni93]

The last time i remember seeing a Prado at the Toyota showroom and it was a 60 lakh car. Recently was again at the same showroom for a friends Corolla's servicing and got to know about the Prado being a 1 Cr car.

What on earth is wrong with Toyota? The Prado as far as i know is sold for less than 20 lakhs in the middle east. So considering the taxation here anything between 40-46 lakhs should be good in India.

The Mitsubishi Montero is an amazing car, the overall brand value hype after the launch of Q's and X's killed it. On top of it, the spares always were a problem with Mitsubishi's scarce service network.

Are Nissan and Ford sleeping? Why can't they bring the Pathfinder, Explorer, Patrol or the Flex here. These cars if launched here at a good price are surely going to find a lot of buyers.

The only thing one can buy in the 40-50 lakh price segment is a used Landcruiser 200.

Asit

[embee]

Originally Posted by ACM

In my view For tuner itself is not worth more than 20L when one considers the XUV, Storme etc pricing.

I think you are absolutely right about Toyota Fortuner. It looks way over-priced!!. Should have been priced around 20 to 22 Lacs (on-road). The Fortuner gets all the features that are standard to the segment along with the basic safety features like ABS-EBD, ESP and two airbags for the front passengers.

But the things that give Fortuner the advantage over others are Toyota’s reliability (includes engine/suspension dynamics & refinement) and also service quality and commitment which is way better than our desi SUV's.