[geotracks]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Thanks for reviving this thread and posting your experience. In a way I had left it because there is only so much a non-owner can contribute without being criticised left right and center.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but glad that you didn't incur any loss during the sale now- thanks to the huge increase in prices post your purchase.

Not sure how many such ownerships will bring Honda down to the ground reality of things. They are currently riding on the huge brand value created over a generation and bad experiences such as yours will kill this good-will way faster than it was built.

PS- Almost all the above issues where listed in page 1 of this thread. Some are design defects (eg: Bluetooth in SV variant, and weak headlamps) while most others are build issues.

I am of the opinion Honda & Toyota make good cars worldwide. Is this (niggles) only a Honda India occurrence owing to QA / QC for India customers?

Also, is it possible that there are more private owners of Honda cars in India that are also very active on forums who bubble these issue as compared to private owners of Toyota? e.g. Toyota sells mainly in the taxi segment (Etios, Innova) and some may be private owners, but these private owners in numbers may no where be close to the number of private owners of Honda cars. Thus not much is spoken of niggles of Toyota cars in India. Could this be true?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by geotracks

I am of the opinion Honda & Toyota make good cars worldwide. Is this (niggles) only a Honda India occurrence owing to QA / QC for India customers?

Also, is it possible that there are more private owners of Honda cars in India that are also very active on forums who bubble these issue as compared to private owners of Toyota? e.g. Toyota sells mainly in the taxi segment (Etios, Innova) and some may be private owners, but these private owners in numbers may no where be close to the number of private owners of Honda cars. Thus not much is spoken of niggles of Toyota cars in India. Could this be true?

I drive and service a Toyota car (Fortuner) on behalf of a friend who is abroad. I can write pages about the cheap cost cutting involved. A 35L Fortuner has some simple features missing that are present in my 8L Punto.

But whatever is present is generally trouble free. Same applies to Innova and Etios too. Cheap interiors, low level of equipment but things work as expected.

Honda takes a different approach to cost cutting (recently). High level of equipment, low build quality and hence low levels of resultant reliability. Both are extreme cost cutting approaches- but I feel the Honda way will hurt a company more in the long run, as customers loose their faith. The Toyota way epitomised by the Etios and the Honda way epitomised by the Mobilio.

Perhaps these mighty companies should learn from Hyundai on how to handle mass market without a big let down in their premium aspirations.

PS- When you think of worldwide Toyota and Honda- it's not cars like Etios, Amaze, Mobilio etc that come to mind. Are they?

[Saanil]

It gives a real bad feeling to come across this thread after booking a VX-CVT Honda City. Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? Or this is something 2014 specific? Hope Honda has rectified their act from 2015 onwards. We have bought an automatic sedan mainly for my father and the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

[arvi86]

Originally Posted by Saanil

It gives a real bad feeling to come across this thread after booking a VX-CVT Honda City. Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? Or this is something 2014 specific? Hope Honda has rectified their act from 2015 onwards. We have bought an automatic sedan mainly for my father and the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

I drive a Civic currently and was briefly toying with the idea of replacing my car with the new City. Believe me, I test drove it all of 4 times - twice the City Diesel and once each with the City petrol manual and automatic. While the car is fully loaded and has the most spacious and comfortable rear bench, the quality levels are a disappointment. If you hadn't before, please do take time to check out the car in detail. If you are happy with it, just do not worry about the issues posted in this thread. I wasn't and gave the City a miss.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by Saanil

It gives a real bad feeling to come across this thread after booking a VX-CVT Honda City. Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? Or this is something 2014 specific? Hope Honda has rectified their act from 2015 onwards. We have bought an automatic sedan mainly for my father and the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

Living with the 4th gen city is easy if you have a second car as well. The city has short service intervals which requires it to frequently visit the ASC, secondly the body shop takes a week to do anything and by that i mean absolutely anything, thirdly the niggles are so many that they keep cropping up all the time.

By the time you solve one, another raises its ugly head. My Uncle bought a 2015 V MT IVTEC and he is also facing worn out discs and pads within a year, door beading has come off. So niggles are still present and it is shameful to see that Honda does not want to correct this.

What made me take the decision to change the car was not the niggles but because of a source who I wouldn't want to describe or name. If you want to know who it was please PM me. After that person told me to get rid of the car there was no meaning keeping it.

That source went on to tell me that the Sales attitude has changed a lot and the sales guys have become areogant as city is selling like alto's and wagonr's i.e people are buying it just by the name.

Earlier when it didn't sell the showroom used trained and senior sales reps. Now they have fired most of them and have kept new guys as they are only interested in numbers. This has caused even the senior guys who have remained to change their attitude and have become selfish.

Hearing all the things got me purely disgusted with the dealership and in some way even with Honda.

Would I ever own a Honda again?
hell yeah, I can't deny that they make one of the best petrol engines in this segment. But I wouldn't buy a Honda until and unless these guys get their head straight. Maybe 3-4 years down the line when Honda realises their folly I would be sitting in a Honda dealership handing over a cheque for my next car

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Saanil

It gives a real bad feeling to come across this thread after booking a VX-CVT Honda City. Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? Or this is something 2014 specific? Hope Honda has rectified their act from 2015 onwards. We have bought an automatic sedan mainly for my father and the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

To each his own. My idtec SV model has ran 23000 kms and I haven't experienced any such niggles. Brake pads are fine and so are the discs as been checked on the scheduled 20k service. No uncomfortable rattles from dashboard or any squeaky sounds. And, I live in Faridabad which has probably the worst roads in NCR with so many potholes you wish you were driving a truck.

Yes, the design flaws are there. Bluetooth and headlight throw both aren't up to the mark.

There is no doubt that Honda has deteriorated in quality over the last few years. However, almost all car companies are doing as much cost cutting as possible and fleece the customers. There are compromises and that's up to you entirely with which one you wish to live with.

Btw, I have noticed most issues had been with the petrol models so I will strongly suggest to get in touch with someone who is using one and take his opinion.

[fastraj]

In spite of all these niggles which I agree is present , there is one strange but awesome feature of the rear number. Two seperate accidents, first when a xylo hit my car created a small dent in the side of the number which was suprising. Second when an etios reversed into the back side of my car. Heard a huge bang and the etios broke it's taillights with not even a spec on my bumper. Surprisingly strong I must say. But the sheet metal bends on even mild pressure.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

I drive and service a Toyota car (Fortuner) on behalf of a friend who is abroad. I can write pages about the cheap cost cutting involved. A 35L Fortuner has some simple features missing that are present in my 8L Punto.

But whatever is present is generally trouble free. Same applies to Innova and Etios too. Cheap interiors, low level of equipment but things work as expected.

Honda takes a different approach to cost cutting (recently). High level of equipment, low build quality and hence low levels of resultant reliability. Both are extreme cost cutting approaches- but I feel the Honda way will hurt a company more in the long run, as customers loose their faith. The Toyota way epitomised by the Etios and the Honda way epitomised by the Mobilio.

Perhaps these mighty companies should learn from Hyundai on how to handle mass market without a big let down in their premium aspirations.

PS- When you think of worldwide Toyota and Honda- it's not cars like Etios, Amaze, Mobilio etc that come to mind. Are they?

When we talk about WW Toyota & Honda, we should consider vehicles like the City (sold in SE Asia), Jaaz (sold as FIT in the US), Innova (sold in SE Asia & Middle East) etc. We should also remember that some Honda & Toyota cars made in India may be for exports too. My point was the same plant in India making these, wonder if they have 'different' QA / QC measures for exports v/s for domestic use.

I have to agree, WW Toyota cars have very bland interiors but the cars work flawlessly. e.g. in the US, the Toyota Prius (which is supposed to be a INR 35L+ premium car in India) has such basic & bland interiors. The dash and door plastic is just so ordinary looking but yet no rattles. There are a lot of Prius cabs in the US which run a lot, but again no rattles. That is what a Toyota is. Similarly I know many who own Honda cars in the US and are equally happy customers.

It worries to read so many niggles being reported on new Honda cars in India. If you talk to Honda owners India, of slightly older cars (2012 or earlier) they are very happy. Which makes me wonder if the vendors from which Honda get supplies have changed or has Honda actually been compromising on QA / QC.

Alternatively if we look at this forum and others, hardly any detailed discussions on Innovas' & Etios', which is the question I had to start with, are there not many private owners of these vehicles to really talk about & report niggles or has Honda quality truly gone down a notch with the success they are seeing after diesel variants are introduced in Indian market.

[hybridpetrol]

City is the flagship product of Honda in India and Honda should first address such issues. Going by the nature of the issues such as ill fitted parts, these are quality control issues specific to the factory where the car is assembled.
If the practices followed there aren't good any car from the same factory could have same problems. Any other reports of similar issues from Amaze, Brio etc?
I understand Honda is known for following rigorous quality principles. Probably it is slightly slipping in India?
Regarding poor headlight design and Bluetooth mic, my guess is these design issues could also be present in Jazz. New Jazz Owners can throw light on this.

[rockporiom]

What i can't understand is almost all of the IVTEC's have the grinding alternator issue and even after replacing it the issue returns. Why doesn't Honda look into this and recall affected vehicles? I believe it has something to do with the idler bearing as well.

Secondly many have also complained about squeaky brakes again mostly in IVTEC's. Worst part is again no TSB so the ASC takes the pleasure of charging the poor customers blaming them of improper use.

Oh and before i forget @Honda please fire your QC team and do yourself a favour. A 5 year old child can better check the fitting of the dead pedal that stupidly falls off. Also a blind mentally challenged clown can better spot the problem of having a BLUETOOTH MIC NEXT TO THE STUPID A/c VENT! Seriously, Honda wake up why give bluetooth in SV when you know it WON'T WORK!

I would prefer a company that recalls cars and shows its support to issues that customers face rather than a company that doesn't recall and silently tries to solve the issue. Heck, Honda isn't even doing that.

[sweetvar26]

Originally Posted by rockporiom

What i can't understand is almost all of the IVTEC's have the grinding alternator issue and even after replacing it the issue returns. Why doesn't Honda look into this and recall affected vehicles? I believe it has something to do with the idler bearing as well.

Secondly many have also complained about squeaky brakes again mostly in IVTEC's. Worst part is again no TSB so the ASC takes the pleasure of charging the poor customers blaming them of improper use.

Oh and before i forget @Honda please fire your QC team and do yourself a favour. A 5 year old child can better check the fitting of the dead pedal that stupidly falls off. Also a blind mentally challenged clown can better spot the problem of having a BLUETOOTH MIC NEXT TO THE STUPID A/c VENT! Seriously, Honda wake up why give bluetooth in SV when you know it WON'T WORK!

I would prefer a company that recalls cars and shows its support to issues that customers face rather than a company that doesn't recall and silently tries to solve the issue. Heck, Honda isn't even doing that.

Tell me about it, can never have a complete phone call from the car without the other person telling me, can't hear you right. Very poor design choice.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by Saanil

It gives a real bad feeling to come across this thread after booking a VX-CVT Honda City. Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? Or this is something 2014 specific? Hope Honda has rectified their act from 2015 onwards. We have bought an automatic sedan mainly for my father and the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

I have a 2014 July iVTEC City and I have not visited the service center for any other reason than the scheduled services. I know three other City owners in my office who have the same experience, two of them owning CVTs. And the service schedule is not as frequent as some suggests, it is four times in the first year (Months 1, 3,6 and 12) and twice after that. The Bluetooth is indeed a poor design, yet to experience the alternator grinding issue or the squeaky brakes and no rattling noise from anywhere.

Here is my first year summary:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3753747

[Alive2Drive]

I have faced my set of issues with my 2014 Silver City VX Diesel. I do hear sound from my dashboard upon hitting minor bumps on roads. Also, there is a strange skreech sound coming from near my roof or front windscreen and that is persistent as long as i am on uneven roads. If the roads are butter smooth there is no sound. This irritates me a lot and plan to get this fixed in my 4th service.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by Saanil

...Can people give me some sort of guidance here - should I be overly worried about the quality of the new generation of Honda City's? ...
.....the last thing I would want is to have him take the car to the service centre for small/big issues.

Originally Posted by govindremesh

While the city is definitely not "bad quality",....

The interior packaging is fantastic and the instrument cluster looks fabulous! Features are nice and the sound quality of stock audio is good. ....

Originally Posted by drjumbo

.... doesn't mean its badly built at all. It feels so because of lighter padding all around meant for weight reduction, .....
.... Whatever niggles I have come across are clearly refelective of hap hazard manufacturing and NOT poor product quality. The car overall is a charmer and way ahead of 3rd gen which literally feels primitive once 4th gen users get into it after months of using 4th gen. This whole charade is happening because we have a way to discuss and complain and our expectations have exceeded reality.... So rest assured this car is just perfect, this much complaining is bound to happen in initial days especially being so famous.

What im doing now is just enjoying the lightweight driving dynamics and keeping my incabin insulation expectations to minimum!
And about people praising 3rd gen over 4th, my colleague clearly remarked my car to be way silent and sturdy compared to his 3rd. So this debate will never end. Panel gaps and all reflects poor manufacturing control which is quite expected considered excessive demands but I'm fortunate in this ragards. No such issues here.

Just want to give my take on the 4th Gen Honda City after using it on a daily basis for over a year now.

The dreaded low-ground clearance with Honda City is a thing of the past, the 4th Gen City is a practical vehicle that can handle bad roads with large humps. This is the biggest improvement IMO that is an absolute necessity, you need a vehicle that is high on practicality that you can take over long drives without worry about humps.

The already spacious interiors of the previous generations is even better now, thanks to the extended wheelbase over the 3rd gen that has increased cabin space significantly without increasing the vehicle length over the previous gen.
Also the High speed handling is relatively better than the previous generation honda City.
The structural rigidity as per reports is also significantly stiffer than before.

The relatively louder diesel engine clatter is due to the all-aluminium engine used (traditional diesel engines that use cast-Iron casing). The aluminium engine although improves the engine thermal-efficiency doesn't significantly insulate sound as well. However the Diesel engine is a fuel-efficient gem with 80% of the torque coming in as low as 1100 rpm with almost zero turbo lag.

Getting the 3M underbody rubberized coating has minimized the sound from creeping in to the cabin to acceptable levels.

The Test-Drive Diesel cars at the dealership are definitely noisier than the production car that is being delivered. Honda has improved the NVH levels in the production cars, but have left the early test-drive cars as it is.

In the V and VX versions, the placement of the Bluetooth mic is perfect (above, between the map lights) with clear clarity on both sides during a call.
The Bluetooth functionality appears to be more of an after-thought job in the SV version.

The niggles that other users have reported certainly cannot be overlooked.
Traditionally there is always a trend of issues after a new model gets launched. I'm expecting that Honda continues to maintain focus on maintaining consistent quality given the high volume of sales this car is generating.

Luckily, I haven't experienced any issue so far (touch wood) that can be attributed to the initial product quality.

The previous generations of Honda were "relatively" higher on interior raw material quality, but came with very less features for the price commanded. Now with the latest model, they have bridged the feature gap but everything ultimately is built around a price. They have done a fair job of a balance between acceptable quality and lot more features.

Having experienced all the previous Honda generations, the 4th Gen City is certainly the best so far in terms of features, sturdiness, value and practicality.

Compared to the other C2 sedans, no other manufacturer has yet cracked the supreme comfort the 4th Gen Honda City provides in the rear bench. It is simply unmatched to date and that adds tremendously to the feel good factor of the City.

There is no point being a fan-boy of any brand, there always has to be variety in the market and healthy competition among brands to bring out the best of cars which benefits the consumer.

[rockporiom]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

Also the High speed handling is relatively better than the previous generation honda City.
The structural rigidity as per reports is also significantly stiffer than before.

I beg to differ, the previous gen city was much better when it came to purely handling and quality.

The current one though has increased features and comfort, it has done that at the cost of handling and quality. The current city is relatively unpredictable at high speeds.

The car would suddenly change direction at triple digit speeds. I can literally feel the steering feel changing as soon as I touch 100. It doesn't inspire confidence like the previous gen which felt rock solid even at high speeds.

Also, the structural rigidity might be better but the metal used on the body is too soft. The slightest touch causes a dent. The paint quality has also gone deep down, the paint is so thin that the slightest attempt would cause a scratch.

I am not bashing the city, the car has no doubt the best seating comfort and engine in this segment but that's about it, almost every other thing has some or the other niggle as reported by the thread starter. I believe the quality that is being offered at the price is not upto the mark.

The current gen city was meant to bridge the gap between the the 3rd gen city and civic but it has lower quality levels than them both. The balance between the features and quality is definately an imbalance, how are falling and failing parts acceptable?