Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   The Indian Car Scene (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/)

-   -   Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/157091-honda-city-4th-gen-niggles-compilation-honda-cars-niggle-free-anymore.html)

Official team-bhp review of the Honda City can be found here -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...al-review.html

Media reviews are quite limited in their scope. Reviewers get the car for a day or two at max and have to use their skills to best assess the product. In that light - we really have to appreciate the superhuman effort gone behind posting such a detailed review within such a short period.

However, inspite of the effort - there is very limited scope of long term testing - and that is where the forum steps in. Ownership reviews reveal a whole wide perspective about a product which goes far beyond the limitations of a review. The official City review thread for example spans 3000 replies - huge amount of data that reveals and conceals a whole lot of information about the product.

When a good friend and previous generation City owner commented about the perceivable fall in the quality levels at Honda - I was curious and decided to deep dive into these 3000 posts. I believe the results are rather convincing and requires a special discussion in itself. It was also interesting to note that the sheer quantity of data available was a limiting factor, and people tend to consider some of the problems as a 'one off' whereas it was reported a few hundred posts earlier by another member.

Why Honda? Why City?

It wouldn't be wrong to say that the City defines the C segment. The previous three generations of the City have built a reputation unlike any other and the Indian market blindly trusts the brand and its capabilities. We are quite used to hearing the name associated with 'niggle-free ownership' even in the forum.

Many people (even on the forum) booked and took delivery of the car without evening taking a test drive, or even seeing the particular variant they have booked.

'You just can't go wrong with a Honda'.

Or can you?

Now that's a question better left to the prospective buyers and owners. The whole idea of this thread is not to say that the City is a bad product. It is in fact a fabulous product which has its share of pros and cons. The cons however seem to be on the higher side for the current (4th generation) and I hope this thread enables the buyers to take an educated decision based on the same.

This thread is not about opinions either. It is rather, a compilation of user complaints presented on the review thread by the owners themselves. People who have put down over a million rupees on the product.

The Data:

Shown below are a summary of the complaints raised by various owners over a span of around 3000 posts in the thread.









The sheer amount of reds that crawled its way into the sheet raised a lot of questions in my mind - ones I hope can be answered by the forum.

Road Testing:

• At least five members complained about the car "twitching direction" at high speeds above 80kmph.
• At least nine members commented about severe visibility issues at night with the headlamp design and spread.
• No spy pics of the car till the official unveil. As GTO mentioned in the official review, it is safe to assume that the car was not tested on public roads in India.

What members had to say:

As the above quotes reveal - these are not just small issues, and have been reported by quite a few members. Could have been caught during the road testing of the product? If the version would have been road tested abroad (any spy pics on that?), would it be the Indian spec version that was tested?

Poor build quality:

• At least five members complained of misaligned panels.
• At least four members complained of poor paint quality. Prominent 'orange peel' effect seen in most cars.
• At least seven members complained of dashboard rattles (Very hard to set right!). At least 10 complained of rattles from cabin plastics.
• At least two members complained of ABC pedals vibrating when horn is pressed. Three complained of pulsating accelerator pedal.

We are not talking about thin sheet metal quality here. I agree that Honda City has received 5 stars in the ASEAN NCAP but we do not know if the same structural integrity makes it to the Indian market, so lets spare that topic here.

By build quality, here we are referring to the perceivable quality. Parts vibrating, parts falling off, body panels having inconsistent gaps (One member has even reported moving body panels in his review). This is definitely not expected from a prestigious brand like Honda.

What members had to say:

Parts falling off!

• At least two members complained of dead pedal falling off.
• At least three members complained of door beading coming off.
• One member had the ORVM fall off while adjusting. :eek:
• Another member had the rear license plate lens cover fall off on day one.

Forget the plasticky look of the cabin, the below posts really caught me off guard. How can parts like lens cover, ORVMs, dead pedals etc fall on on new cars. What would happen if these were to fall off when the car is being driven? :Shockked:

What members had to say:


Persistent Niggles (Required multiple visits to the workshop that rendered new car unused for one or two days):

• At least two members complained of rain water leakage in cabin.
• At least 11 members complained of grinding noise from the alternator belt in the iVTEC.
• At least four members complained of grinding noise from the clutch.

This section is the saddest part of the lot. Could see a lot of frustration being vented out by many members although only a few have been quoted below. Issues like rain water leakage, grinding sounds from the (famous!) iVTEC petrol motor, clutch replacements are not something owners expect when they buy a million rupee Honda!

What members had to say:

Design flaws and ergonomics

• Bluetooth is SV variant is useless due to mic positioning. No solution provided by Honda.
• Piano black finish and glass on console prone to scratches and peeling off! And it is provided for most used parts.
• Atleast seven members complained of back pain due to poor lumbar support plus choice of seat material.

Japanese brands have always been perfect at ergonomics. You can count on everything to work exactly as you would want. However, the new City seems to falter here as well. Faulty positioning of a bluetooth mic next to the air vent is just not acceptable. On top of it, Honda doesn't acknowledge the issue and the owners who raised complaints only received corporate-worded emails.

The seats feel just like a sofa set when you check it out in the showroom, but apparently owners have a bad time travelling in it.

What owners had to say:


Quality Control (or the lack of it):

• Two members had vapour misting in the headlamps and the units were replaced soon after delivery.
• Other reported issues include power socket not working in new car, remote key issues in new car, etc.
• As mentioned earlier, at least five members complained of misaligned panels.
• As mentioned earlier, at least four members complained of poor paint quality. Prominent 'orange peel' effect seen in most cars.

Discrimation w.r.t features compared to international variant.

Malaysian variant of the City gets:

• 5 year unlimited kilometers standard warranty. (As against our 2 years 40k kms).
• 185 section 16' tyres on top variant (Our 175 section tyres were main source of complaint for owners since many dealers claim warranty loss once upgraded).
• 16' alloys with appealing design. (Indian variant had rather bland alloys).
• 7' touchscreen audio (We get 5' display and not touch screen)
• Tilt and telescopic steering wheel (We get tilt only).
• Auto retract mirrors (We get electric fold without auto retract).
• Fully foldable rear bench with 60/40 split. (We get fixed rear bench).
• Adjustable rear neck restraints. (We get fixed ones).
• 6 airbags (We get 2)
• Safety features like Vehicle Stability Assist, Brake Assist, Hill Start Assist etc.

Malaysian Top end: Source - Malaysia Chronicle Review.


Indian Top end: Source - Team Bhp Official Review.


Step down in quality compared to previous generation:

Also, whats quite evident from the comments were that few members owned both the new generation City and one of its earlier generation were not really happy with the quality levels of the current generation. The older ones remained solid while the new generation has developed rattles within a short timeframe.

What owners had to say:

Showroom and service Experiences

Almost every single owner complained of a bad showroom and service experiences. These include collection of high amount as illegal 'handling charges', not responding to test drive requests, rejecting PDI requests, etc.

Another major source of complaint has been the lack of an escalation channel. All escalations to the company seem to get redirected to the dealers, as the owners who complained about the bluetooth mic and alternator belt issues have found out.



Conclusion:

Is the City a bad product? Definitely not, and the sales figures prove it. There is no way this thread can contest that fact.

Is the City as good as the previous generation? Yes and No. It is good in terms of a few factors like space, diesel option, FE, etc. But a definite step down in terms of quality.

Is Honda City a 'niggle-free' product anymore? No. As explained in detail above, owners have run into niggles and some serious ones at that, as would happen with every other product in the market. There was a time when the Honda was a safer option in the C segment, but not anymore.

Is it a cheaper option compared to the Europeans? Well, Have you even seen the prices of those OEM accessories? And most dealers insist that your warranty gets void if you opt for them outside the OE network. It might turn out to be cheaper in terms of service costs (But then - City commands a premium price tag when you purchase it).

Should we expect better quality levels from Honda? Yes. If anything, team-bhp as a forum is the one thing that can really voice these opinions. City was / is a great product and the company has constantly kept it updated to keep up with the competition. I believe they will make note and make corrections sooner rather than later.


To conclude with, I urge every prospective owner to test drive the cars before opting for one - understand the pros and cons and judge the products individually rather than opting for a brand as a safer bet. The market scenario has changed and it is evident that Honda had to cut corners to stay competitive. The thread only highlights this fact and hopes to enable prospective owners to takes these facts into consideration and make an educated decision regarding their purchase.

PS -

There are no personal opinions stated in the post. All qoutes and opinions are from 4th generation City owners and taken from the official review thread - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...al-review.html

Grinding noise from alternator belt -

Normal -
https://soundcloud.com/netmax/2014-h...e-noise-update

With grinding noise
https://soundcloud.com/netmax/2014-h...ity-svt-idling

*Thanks to member neel911. Original post here -


Orange Peel effect -



*Thanks to member neel911. Original post here -

Moving panels and large panel gaps -

Thanks to member RavenAvi. Original post here -



Below portion moves when pressed, as reported by him.




Thanks to member blueinkbottle. Original post here -



Interiors of S (2nd) variant. Ex-showroom 9.09L Delhi for the diesel.

Base variant is E. This is the second variant.

Thanks to member RavenAvi. Original post here -





Members applied scratchguard film on the centre console to prevent scratches -

Original post here -



Accessories price list -

It is astonishing to see a car of such repute especially for it's reliability end up in such a mess.

I am stunned to say the least because I gave honda city a thumbs up when my uncle wanted to get a new car and I spoke a lot about the reliability. It is good that he has not yet booked the car, all thanks to Ciaz.

Let me give my perspective as a Owner of 2012 Honda City V where i was considering seriously to buy the new gen City.

My 2 cents - when i sat in the New City i wanted few things from my old city like Steering (with cube buttons for audio, cruise etc..), Height Adjustable seat belts, Alloy design and lot more and the important thing the fit, Panel gap and finish which was lacking in the new city. Even after this experience i wanted to give Honda benefit of doubt due to demo car.

But when my friend who bought the new city VX (based on my recommendation) i drove the car when it was about 5 months old, that's when i experienced Honda has compromised on their famous quality because there was rattling sound coming somewhere in the dashboard and near rear left back seat which the service guys have not able to fix it even today. The Honda Service adviser scared my friend saying they need to remove the complete dashboard to rectify the rattle and during this procedure there are chances more rattles can occur because the it cant match the Factory.

After looking at these issues i didnt pursue on buying the New city because of the above issues and happy with my 2012 City.

Nice compilation, shocking to see that this product was not even road tested in real time conditions of India.

Also, we still have not got into the 'hydrolocking' i-DTECs yet. :)

Crazy Driver has done a lot of hard work to summarise the niggles in the v4 model of City.
Honda City is a worshiped brand and model in India, although I am not one of the devotees. One thing I appreciate about City is its grandiose looks. But it looks like the company is some what taking its brand image granted for. Hope they will resolve issues so as to retain their fan followers

Crazy Driver - I salute you for the time you have taken and your dedication in compiling this thread.
As a progressively less satisfied Honda City owner since 2003 using generations 1,2 & 3, I can quite understand (and have seen) a falling away of standards. The cars have progressively felt lighter/flimsier and prone to rattles/noises of different kinds. I'm sure Generation 4 would be no different.
I am therefore moving on (am in the process of doing so).
I sure hope Honda will reverse this trend of declining quality because I have always been a pro Honda customer.

Thanks for the effort and the unbiased stating of apparent factual experiences of owners.

Firstly, if one carefully revisits the Team-bhp reviews of Honda's new products (City and Mobilio), it is very clear that the reviewers are themselves getting (and therefore, giving) feelers of the perceptible fall in quality levels and the drive for glaring and obvious cost cutting. These visually obvious cost cutting measures, may actually be perceived as the pressure to reduce/control costs, and therefore harbinger fall in quality of non-obvious components as well. Such components remain hidden till they, sooner than one would hope, start falling or failing.

What is equally worrisome to me is the fall in quality control from Honda. The Japanese are supposed to spearhead quality control. If I were Honda, and if cost cutting was being undertaken, then I would spend a lot more attention, effort, and money on quality control. Honda has to wake up on this at the earliest, with potential consequences of quickly ruining hard earned reputation and trust among Indian consumers. I am sure they are up to it, and capable of stemming what seems to be a rising tide of dissatisfaction.

As a guy who had owned 2nd gen city and now a 2012 city and a 2012 brio, it pains me to see such a multitude of complaints against a brand and a car I love so much. But things should be seen as it is and there is no denying the fact that Honda is losing its way.

When Honda introduced the amaze and its first diesel engine, and started making bucket loads of money, quality control it seems has taken a nose dive.

Shame on you Honda for doing this in India especially when you don't have any problems anywhere else in the world.

Somebody should mail this thread to Honda and make them see what their greed had done to its once sky high reputation.

It was just pure luck that my family decided to go car shopping in 2012, just before this disaster was going to happen (or is it????). If we had postponed it, I would have had to made a complaint thread here as well!!!
On the whole absolutely disgusting turn of events I must say:Frustrati

That is a very detailed compilation there! A big thanks to you for this thread.

I'm not surprised about the decrease in build quality for the cars as I've first hand experience poor quality with their motorcycle.

It looks like all manufacturers are in a race to the bottom trying to stay competitive in a inflation-prone market and in a world where the stock market demands ever increasing growth and profit margins.

Edit: A problem I faced with complaining about my Trigger is the same car owners seem to be facing - Complain to Honda, and they'll re-route you back to the dealer. It makes no sense at all! After all in IT, if you have a problem with your manager and escalate it higher, you don't expect to deal with your manager again!

This is totally unacceptable. My expression was this- :Shockked:

I think rattles, grinding noises and unexpected vibration only came from the older Tata cars. Even Tata has considerably improved.

Coming to the topic, Where are the Japanese tolerances, precision and their near flawless fit and finish?

I'm disappointed to hear such complaints from a car that stood for being the put together well. It's made a reputation in the last 12 years for being simply the best in the segment.

Quoting GTO's experience with the City(1st gen)

Quality can't go down like this.

Brio, Amaze and Mobilio customers seem more well screwed than the city. I haven't heard a complaint from an Amaze owner.

Brilliant thread.. thanks for compiling all the Honda city issues in a single place. Many of the issues reported are quite serious..like car twitching directions, extra soft seats,clutch grinding, and doors unlocking during hard breaking this a sever defect.

Interesting analysis.

Could increased localization have any part to play in this? Although I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if Indian manufacturing standards weren't up to the mark. There isn't any reason for manufactured-in-India vehicles to be not as good as those manufactured elsewhere.

My family has owned mostly Marutis and have a Honda and Hyundai now so I can't exactly talk about how good/bad Honda has gotten. But I did drive a Corsa until recently and yes, the City is fickle relatively.

You've raised a very important point: why should the Indian variants be not as good as the Malaysian ones? I would consider the Indian market fairly mature and it really pains me to note that Malaysia and Thailand get better cars. I mean, do manufacturers consider us that stupid? Or are they that arrogant about India?

@crazy_driver - Brilliant post, and posts like these keep driving the quality of this forum up. Thanks for the time and the effort (I own the 2011 City, and I am quite happy with its build quality)

May be the customers don't expect much and hence don't complain. I found the build quality of all these three cars several notches below what I would have liked it to be. Every review I have read says Ertiga is much better than Mobilio in build quality.

Not sure I mentioned this, but it happened to my friend's 1 month old less than 1000 kms top most variant of the diesel - on the rear navigator side door. I had a tough time trying to put it back and finally we closed the door and then moved on. Later, I was told that the A$$ put it in place - no replacement.

In my mind, Honda is NO longer a premium brand. They proved that they can go down to less than budget brand quality for sales and numbers! City used to aspire me for a C-segment car; but today I might rather buy a Ciaz than a City for 10L. Compared head to head, Ciaz makes a stronger case, save for the brand value at 10L which I can overlook.

Very recently, I drove a friend's 85K done 2nd gen city (dolphin shape?) and it felt "premium" and absolutely NO squeaks from any of the parts. The current gen City is just a shadow of that kind of quality which the second gen sported.