[Detroit-Dude]

Originally Posted by Carpainter

This proves that they are digging their own grave day by day. In order to make things right they have a lot of things to do here in India. Firstly they are going to launch the Jetta in coming months. Now the rumour is that they might increase the price of the car by 1L. If they are to attract new buyers and keep the interest in their new cars alive they should no keep on increasing the price of their cars this way. The new Jetta is nothing but a mid life refresh. Not much is actually new in that car that will command 1L price appreciation over the current model which itself was a bit overpriced in my opinion.

Think about Polo now. The 1.2L 3 Cylinder petrol trendline starts at 4.99L ex-showroom. That's costlier than i20/Swift base model. In order to get more market share they cannot demand this price premium over the most successful models in the market.

Their salesmanship/aftersales have remained questionable and the company have not shown any great intent to rectify that. Their portfolio is also getting old now. They should launch models like Tiguan/Taigun etc. to get more volumes as these segments are doing well now. So I think they are not really serious in penetrating the market and giving excuses like poor economical growth,inflation etc. as their reason for underperformance just like they give you excuses when they are not able to repair your car properly or in time.

VW is suffering from a serious bout of arrogance and ignorance. Even the sales executives are well trained in this art. A recent conversation with the sales exec from VW downtown Lalbaug the best dealer in Mumbai.this is how it went when I called on a sat afternoon enquiring for the polo diesel
" Sir, I can give you a test drive on Monday. I am very busy today with a lot of appointments. Sundays we don't let the car out. You can visit the showroom. GT TSI? Only to and fro the showroom. GT TDi we don't have a test car"
This is the attitude which they still carry. "Power for the people" even the radio ad is misleading 1.5 litre powerful TDi engine starting 4.99 lacs
VW, do you think the consumers are fools? Last year VW management apparently realised that the only..only problem was the Diesel engine.ok plonk a 1.5 l and the polo will sell like hot cakes.
Dealers don't have enough test cars and weekends when you can actually sell the cars are in the showroom.
I seriously feel that Skoda has learned its lesson and the same is evident in their sales and service as many of us have commented in other forums.
VW please please invest on customer delight and expand your service network. Educate your dealers and sales reps that they should be working on weekends when there is work. Don't piss off the customer and an existing one
Remember, Hyundai is working hard and will catch up with you on handling and build quality as well very soon and much sooner than you think.

[greenhorn]

somehow the graph doesn't make sense.

the profit seems to have gone down with increase in revenue. I can understand profitability taking a hit when you go after volumes, but profit actually going down is rather surprising.

I wonder what's taking such a big hit on their expenses?
the cars prices aren't going down. sales might have tanked a bit, but they should be better than FY10 levels, and with the same fixed costs. so what gives?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by GTO

Ironically, this is the exact reason behind Audi's success, albeit VW & Skoda don't get it.

Would you believe, Audi sales team brought down their cars for TD 500kms away? [one way]

It helps that they own dealerships at Calcutta and Ranchi and have plans to open a service outlet at Siliguri.

The sales team were suitably rewarded as well. An acquaintance got a Q7 and two Q7's are about to be ordered. One Q3 dynamic or Q5 might be ordered soon as well.

And now, try calling the Skoda guys...

[GTO]

Originally Posted by zombiedriver

Both VW and Skoda are incredibly slow IMHO to react to the market. Its been over a year since they launched the Octavia and they still have a waiting period of 3-4 months which is just plain unacceptable. And then there is this wait for the Jetta facelift.

Skoda well & truly botched the Octavia up. Great car, wide range of engine & transmission options, sweet looking, strong nameplate.

Trust Skoda = They don't have enough supplies. Then, they priced it higher than the Jetta (already an expensive car)

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

VW India despite having the lowest market share is profitable. The environment in the factory is not that gloomy. I visited the factory couple of weeks back and they are churning out cars all day. Just that many of them are LHS.

Any manufacturer that doesn't succeed locally has to resort to exports to keep the factory line running. It's actually a shame that you are standing in a 2 million sales / year market, sell merely 50,000 a year and are forced to export to fill your calendar up.

In a country where the highest selling sedan and the highest selling hatch are ZERO NCAP, things cannot get better. They have compromised on profits but the car is safe and well built as ever. Their core values are still intact. Now some may say " What core value?" what About VW ASS" ?

Lets accept a car for its strengths as well as weaknesses. At the time of launch, the Polo had the poorest engines in its segment, the lowest feature list, the worst dealerships and limited backseat space. Today, the Polo & Vento are among the oldest cars in their segments.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by Bluebeem

POLO with its 3 pot noisy unrefined motor sounds like a auto riksha at times. I felt with its 3 pot strategy VW was so defiantly ripping customers off for the prices being offered.

One of the most honest posts I've read about that engine which has been very, very overrated by most people I know. I just didn't get it, still don't. In the test drive the dealer was brimming with pride explaining about the German car & engine which in his view is high-tech and fuel efficient. I understand from a sales point of view they have to elaborate on its pluses only, to tempt the buyer but the real-road situation is something else.

That 3 pot was huffing and wheezing across every gear.. the power delivery was limping right through the rev count & while it is acceptably refined in slow speeds, pushing the pedal a couple of inches further brings out a rough throaty note which wasn't pleasant to my ears. The steering felt vague & the turning effect wasn't instant. Still many people said that it is the best fun-to-drive car because its "European".

To be very honest that is just placebo effect that is formed by a general assumption that all German cars are great to drive, nope. I accept the fact to an extent that they are heavy built cars but FTD is altogether another thing which really isn't VW territory. To me the OTR cost of 7.8L approx (in 2012) for that hatchback seemed atrocious.

[arnabchak]

Some thoughts:

• By 2016, the Passenger car market size will be close to 26,00,000(26 lacs) per annum.
• VW have now "conservatively" put a 8% market share.
• That translated to close to 2.1 lac cars per annum or approximately 17500 cars/month.
• The current annual sale is <50K per month.
• VW is already looking at a sales increment of 420% in 18 months even at their "conservative" 8% market share.

What is their ammunition/weakness/threats?
- Almost decade old car designs
- Scary ASC experiences
- High cost of spares additionally flavored with unavailability of the spares
- Aspirational value diminished over the years
- Better and evolving competition
- Only a star in Audi, unfortunately affordable to the select few!!


So, a 420% increment against existing sales will just be another no. that looks rosy on paper.


Dont be too surprised if VW even lowers this "conservative" no. by a third!!

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

So the cars being the most safest... most well built are not selling in our great country... Before we take out knives for the germans lets not forget that across the border in China, they are on the top. .... VW India despite having the lowest market share is profitable.... They have compromised on profits but the car is safe and well built as ever. Their core values are still intact..

Thank you spyder. Well said. Glad to see a grounded voice in a sea of criticism. VAG (or companies like them) don't enter markets except for the long term. India (and China) are incredibly difficult places to build businesses in not least because of the Govt environment (in India; China has other issues). If I were VAG I would first focus on getting the product and production right. If that gets compromised it is a nightmare to set right later. On that I think they have done well. The next will be to get a dealer network built - looks like that is still work in progress in both reach and quality. The third then will be to introduce a car for each segment and sub-segment they choose to be in and price it just above the competition within each segment and get positioned as the premium within a segment. From 1984 to the mid 1990s Maruti (yes Maruti) was known as a premium brand and Maruti A.S.S. while efficient was arrogant and had an attitude that said - 'take it or leave it', ' get into the queue and shut up' and so on. The same Maruti is today a leader in After Sales Service. After buying a M800 in 1985 we did not go for a Maruti in 1992 (but instead a Premier Padmini followed by a second Padmini in 1994) only because of this poor A.S.S. Later in 2002 we bought a Zen (the old zippy one) and by then Maruti's A.S.S. was pleasantly in a different league altogether. While I am no fan of Audi my family garage has over 200,000 km on Laura (just sold) and Superb (going strong) together and these are very good cars despite iffy A.S.S. . As India's economy grows and buying power increases the inclination for cheap and cheerful will diminish relatively. And I guess that is when VAG's safer and better built products will come into its own. Till then with India being less than 0.50% of their world wide share this market will remain an orphan child in the VAG world.

[Contrapunto]

Reputation is a funny thing...takes ages to build and moments to lose. I think VW thought that their cars should speak for themselves. They would have, but before that the sales rep speaks for them, and that, coupled with a poor network, kept customers away. Dollar for dollar, they need to invest in their sales and support network more than anything else. My VW showroom has been similar to those expresses here (read: not good). It is very much possible to have a weak product line up and still be successful based on positive reputation and customer experience (look at Toyota). So I hope when they reset their country strategy, customer experience does get front and centre, much more than their product strategy.

But then, spending money is easier than working harder-so I will hold on to my concerns till I see the data.

[SchumiFan]

VW's Polo is supposedly their 'premium' hatchback offering. It extends all the way from 4.99 lakhs to 8 lakhs. Where is their competition for the lower range offerings from their competitors (Maruti and Hyundai)? There is a whole lot of space to be explored in the 3-5 lakhs category.

But if VW don't want to lessen their image as a mass market manufacturer, then it is not the customer's fault to choose others over VW.

The car has been unchanged mostly but for a few changes in the name of facelift. The engines got upgraded but that masks the fact that they had very poor engines to start with.

TSi was a revelation, a game changer. I agree. But it is at a higher price bracket where people expect a lot more than just latest tech.

I am not sure how VW is going to solve the space issues with the Polo unless they bring in a new platform with increased wheelbase. In India it is very important that the car carries at least 5 people. From the reports, it seems even 4 is a lil difficult with the VW Polo.

The i20 has undergone two facelifts since 2010. The car's face has changed completely and also its flaws have been addressed thus increasing its sales greatly.

Finally looking at their China portfolio and comparing it with ours, it seems VW is hugely uninterested in the Indian market and is happy to use it as an export hub. They seem to be selling it because they are manufacturing it here. Not the other way round.

[supertinu]

Other than reading lot of reviews on TBHP my 1st hand experience with VW has been very limited but even with that limited experience I am not surprised in where VW stands today in India.

Few issues that stood out negative for me were

• A.S.S - I went to a VW showroom in Bangalore to checkout the facelifted Polo when it was launched. The sale staff seemed to act as if they had a Swift killer at hand. Ignoring that, what really ticked me off to no end was that request for test drive required me to sign a form out that held me responsible for any damages to the test drive car incase of accident etc. I told him its not gonna happen and walked out.

• Colleague of mine gave his 2 yr old Vento with 17K km on Odo for servicing. Car is mainly city driven with few highway drives. His bill came to 16K and the service center replaced brakes and rotors on pretext that they had worn out. Ignorant colleague of mine paid without questioning further. I wonder if it was quality issue or a rip off from A.S.S

• Products - Eventually my sister bought the facelifted Polo 1.2L petrol and I got to test drive. Agree it has great interior quality but what about back seat, or engine which is heart of the car. Also it would take a trained eye to differentiate polo from vento from jetta which are all very different price points

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by supertinu

Other than reading lot of reviews on TBHP my 1st hand experience with VW has been very limited but even with that limited experience I am not surprised in where VW stands today in India.

Nothing to be surprised at all. Arrogance, poor customer relations, No response to questions, head-strong attitude - all are the qualities with the staff at VW dealership/ASC. Nothing is clear be it during sales or service. Any uninformed customer will be taken for a royal ride.

Originally Posted by supertinu

The sale staff seemed to act as if they had a Swift killer at hand. Ignoring that, what really ticked me off to no end was that request for test drive required me to sign a form out that held me responsible for any damages to the test drive car incase of accident etc. I told him its not gonna happen and walked out.

A similar issue that happened with me when I went to VW dealer to TD the Polo GT TDl.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3319108

These guys do need to learn and improve. They do need to learn the way Maruti and Hyundai work in India. The volumes sold by Maruti Suzuki and Hyundai are mind boggling so will be the number of vehicles to be serviced at the respective ASC's.

Swift response, clear billing, positive smiling attitude (read greeting/welcoming) all need to be incorporated by the staff at VW for people to walk in their dealership.

Note: No offence to VW owners. This is my personal experience.

[pranjal1984]

Suspension change cost is mentioned as 33000 as is mentioned in another thread. Its not costly its atrocious. Painting scratches cost 8000. I am thinking of selling off my 1.5 year old Polo because I am not affluent enough to maintain it. The car is running flawlessly because I have driven it only for 3000 kms. But I shudder to think what will happen in future once the warranty expires. Sorry but that is the truth. VAG group cars are not for common man like me who has hard earned money not earned through any shady deals.

[spyder_p8]

Originally Posted by pranjal1984

Suspension change cost is mentioned as 33000 as is mentioned in another thread. Its not costly its atrocious. Painting scratches cost 8000. I am thinking of selling off my 1.5 year old Polo because I am not affluent enough to maintain it. The car is running flawlessly because I have driven it only for 3000 kms. But I shudder to think what will happen in future once the warranty expires. Sorry but that is the truth. VAG group cars are not for common man like me who has hard earned money not earned through any shady deals.

You have just run 3000 km and you have the running cost ready? How is that possible. If you really want to know about running costs please read this posts.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...ml#post3584520

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3611533

Some better experiences with the devil.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...w-service.html

[NPV]

Came across this article recently.
It mentions FY14 profit and loss making auto companies in India.
Profit making companies - Maruti Suzuki tops with Rs.2783 Crores followed by Volkswagen, Nissan and Fiat!

Loss making companies - GM tops with Rs.3812 Crores followed by Ford, Honda and Toyota Kirloskar!

Surprising ones for me were Fiat as a profit making company and Toyota Kirloskar as loss making

Source : Indian Express, Bangalore edition 19 July 2015 - Link

MODS:Please move to appropriate thread if one exists already.

[vasudeva]

actually there are 2 companies-Volkswagen Group and Volkswagen India.
The excel sheet enclosed details the profit and loss account for both for last 3-4 years.

Guess what, excluding Maruti and for last 7-8 years
1. Hyundai is the only company that has consistently reported profits
2. Honda has consistently reported losses though they had a great performance in 2013-14 and reduced losses.
3. Toyota was in profit but is in minor losses from FY2012

All above companies are showing income growth.
4. Fiat is in profits since 2012 but sales have declined.
5. Ford has been in losses since 2007-08 even though sales have quadrupled from Rs. 2144 cr in 2009-10 to Rs. 8924 cr in 2013-14.
6. GM has not bothered to report beyond 2009-10 but it was in losses till then.

When free, I will post excel sheets for all.