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Old 25th November 2017, 23:08   #181
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

The words "Too little, too late" is what comes to mind. Honda City has a 2 decade headstart, there's the Ciaz, Verna, Vento, Rapid, etc to contend with. The C segment is already crowded and has different price points also covered. Look at the various engines/ gear box combos on offer by the competition!! If Toyota makes a half hearted attempt it will fall flat and we'll be seeing a lot of Vios cabs like the Etios. Toyota is very greedy nothing with an OTR of less than ₹ 25L seems interesting to the bosses of Toyota India.
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Old 26th November 2017, 00:02   #182
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

Toyota engines are a big disappointment in India on all cars other than the new Innova. They really need to get better engines for our country
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Old 26th November 2017, 02:54   #183
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I feel what C2 segment lacks is a proper hybrid, which the Vios can fill comfortably. Contrary to the views expressed here, if Toyota can launch Vios with a proper hybrid kit, that would give it the first movers advantage as well carve a niche for themselves. If Corolla can have a proper hybrid, why not the Vios?
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Old 26th November 2017, 08:25   #184
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

I think Toyota right now needs strong numbers which a mini SUV could bring right now. VIOS/sedan might not be the right product at this point in time. But Toyota, they know their market - so there must be a gap for them to consider this space. Although I wish they brought in YARIS!
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Old 26th November 2017, 13:17   #185
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
The words "Too little, too late" is what comes to mind.
Seriously? With the advent of K-Series engines, exceptionally light weight build and the end of the Kizashi, skinny tyres and flimsy build, do you think anyone buys Marutis and Hondas for anything more than reliability and ease of maintenance? Honda adds a little prestige to the mix which considering their new offerings, it would be safe to say doesn't deserve to be considered prestigious anymore. Toyota is the reliability king, still is the build quality and quality control king, it is the ease of maintenance king as well. It is just that they don't have enough cars to cater to every economic demographic here in India. I have complete confidence that Honda will have to pull up their socks and Suzuki will have to think about re-strategizing the way they make cars these days once Toyota launches this thing.
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Old 26th November 2017, 14:58   #186
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

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Seriously? ... I have complete confidence that Honda will have to pull up their socks and Suzuki will have to think about re-strategizing the way they make cars these days once Toyota launches this thing.
I'd beg to differ. It is indeed too little too late.

1. In India, the market is moving strongly towards UVs, even if it's a Cross over. Sedans are still selling but if Toyota thinks they are going to compete against a Ciaz or a Verna - tough luck.

2. If the argument was that they'll deliver a superior product, it would be definitely interesting. But given that even with their flagship sedan, the Corolla, they still put together a mediocre combination of engine and interiors, says a lot about their interest in this segment

3. If at all they were really competitive, the Etios should be flying off the shelves. It's not. Compared to other major players, they are a laggard in this particular segment (just like how others lag behind in the UV segment)

While it would be really great if they indeed bring the Vios in (more choices leads to better competition) Toyota will be joining the game when the appetite for sedans in decreasing and it's becoming an increasingly luxury focused segment. Anything mediocre will leave them with another Liva in their hands.
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Old 26th November 2017, 15:46   #187
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

As far as Toyota is concerned India is third world country which is fit only for Taxi segment (Except for Fortuner which is again overpriced). This might sound harsh but IMHO that is the reality.

So until the product hits the road its very difficult believe in these news.

We all will be happy to be surprised, but I dont see that happening any sooner.!
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Old 26th November 2017, 17:49   #188
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

I really think that a station wagon variant of Etios would have seen sufficient traction. That is an under-served segment and doesn't need a lot of swag.
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Old 26th November 2017, 18:28   #189
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

Going by the history, they might just stop the Etios and replace it with Vios even though it still sells a decent 2500 per month. Toyota did the same with Qualis when Innova was released. Qualis was giving decent sales numbers when Toyota pulled out this surprise.

Regardless, it's a reality that the sedan market is shrinking in India. Everyone wants an SUV or something in the shape of an SUV even if it doesn't have any of the capabilities of an SUV. For me, I'll never choose the so called 'compact SUVs' over a sedan because it doesn't provide me off road capability, nor does it provide comfort due to its high seating position with a short wheel base.

The other market is the 4m sedan which is essentially a hatch in the shape of a sedan. It doesn't provide any of the advantages of a full size sedan ( in fact limits the advantages of a hatchback design as well ). A Baleno is a more practical car than a Dzire. But, market goes behind Dzire, because it is shaped like a sedan and has the price of a hatch.

And regarding the taxi image, it's not just in India that Toyotas are used as taxis. In most countries, you will see this phenomenon. Corolla, Vios and Camry are extensively used as taxis in different parts of the world. The reason is very simple. Taxis runs lakhs of kms. Durability and cost of maintenance matters to them. There is no brand which beats Toyota in both these factors. Why else would a taxi market like that in India buy Etios with airbags and ABS and pay the extra capital compared to competition ?

I own an Etios Diesel which has clocked 1.25 lakh kms. This is how the maintenance history looks like. My family has never owned something as peaceful and low cost to maintain like the Etios Diesel.

Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ-regular_maintenance.png
Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ-other_replacement.png

Last edited by amalji : 26th November 2017 at 18:46.
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Old 26th November 2017, 22:57   #190
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

This is slightly OT, about the speculated Vios' knock-on effect on the Etios.

Isn't the Indian Vios going to be on the same platform as the Etios? Could be built in the same, under-utilized (50%?) plant? That presumably is still going to be doing exports to South Africa? What could it cost to continue the Etios?

Maybe it is more of Toyota wanting or not wanting to sell it?

Taxi segment? Ola, Uber people seem happy with Liva's (heck, I've seen plenty of 210-litre boot Bolt taxis). I guess they won't give up the taxi segment, and maybe the Liva is enough?

Continuing a presence in the entry mid-size segment? They have had the disadvantage of the cess imposed only on the Etios; they make atleast ₹30000 less on it than Honda makes off the similarly-priced 1.2-litre petrol Amaze. Why bother with the low sales there?

It all points to the Liva probably continuing. Etios? Maybe kill it to try for a different image. Or keep that big-a** boot around for when BSVI diesel norms make hybrids more of an option for them & they need space for the battery? We can hope . Let me go really far OT & also wonder if Toyota has a smaller capacity hybrid engine than the 2.5-litre Camry engine.

Last edited by yatin : 26th November 2017 at 23:18.
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Old 26th November 2017, 23:26   #191
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

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Originally Posted by yatin View Post
also wonder if Toyota has a smaller capacity hybrid engine than the 2.5-litre Camry engine.
Yes, they have. The Corolla in Australia has a hybrid variant.
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Old 27th November 2017, 02:31   #192
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

I guess hybrids are more suited to the Vios/Yaris up-branding than to the Etios. And there are smaller engines, of sizes already in their Indian cars. While the 1.8-litre Prius engine may be imported, the Prius C 1.5-litre sounds suspiciously like the Etios one, would need imported hybrid kit of course.

And their designs have batteries under the rear seat. A high-priced under-4m Liva successor like a Yaris with a hybrid kit priced at C2 levels seems realistic after BSVI. Whatever comes in 2018 will be short-term, unless it is the C-HR, which makes fantastic sense with its Liva petrol block + direct injection.

In a situation with guaranteed returns, they could simply pull the plug on the Etios+Liva, and bring in a TNGA platform that can be reused for Yaris & C-HR.

Last edited by yatin : 27th November 2017 at 02:41.
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Old 27th November 2017, 07:23   #193
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

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Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
The words "Too little, too late" is what comes to mind. Honda City has a 2 decade headstart, there's the Ciaz, Verna, Vento, Rapid, etc to contend with. The C segment is already crowded and has different price points also covered. Look at the various engines/ gear box combos on offer by the competition!! If Toyota makes a half hearted attempt it will fall flat and we'll be seeing a lot of Vios cabs like the Etios. Toyota is very greedy nothing with an OTR of less than ₹ 25L seems interesting to the bosses of Toyota India.
It is indeed a bit late, but still better than not launching the product. Other the the Etios twins Toyota products in India doesn’t feel like half-hearted or built to a cost, and I guess by now they know that the made for India project did not really fly high. If they launch the standard Yaris and Vios, it can easily take a good share in its respective segments.
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Old 27th November 2017, 08:27   #194
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

If Toyota puts in an effort, I sure hope there will be quality and reliability under its baseline. With that aspect, hopefully the sedan C-Segment gets a big boost in terms of market dynamics. Because that would say lot in terms of a big player entering no matter how late.

Toyota does a diligent job even with Etios. Given that dedication, it would be a good sturdy no-nonsense product which I would expect.
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Old 27th November 2017, 08:37   #195
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Default re: Scoop! Toyota Vios caught testing in Bangalore Edit: it's the Yaris Ativ

Toyota Vios India launch in 2018

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Japanese giant Toyota is preparing to launch its Vios sedan in India by mid-2018. The company has given itself a target of Diwali 2018 and is working hard to localise it to be able to price the car competitively and take on its natural rival, the extremely successful Honda City.
It won’t be easy. And Toyota knows this. The company has two blockbusters on its hands, the Innova and the Fortuner that on average sell 6,000 and 2,000 units a month, but it has almost never had success with sedans or hatchbacks in India. The original Corolla, with its extremely comfortable back seat and upmarket interior, was something of a sensation when it was launched. And the strong 1.8 engine won it a lot of fans too. But post that, real success in cars has eluded them.
The Vios, however, could change all that. A car that is available in several Southeast Asian markets like Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Philippines, the Vios is often positioned competitively vis-à-vis the City. And it is this ‘slightly down on the City position’ that Toyota is likely to adopt here in India as well. But does the Vios have what it takes to impress the Indian car buying public?
First impressions are certainly positive. There’s an up-to-the-minute vibe to the car. The nose, especially the headlight and grille combo are extremely modern and are in line with Toyota’s global models. Under the high-mounted grille is a very aggressive and sporty large anvil-shaped intake, finished in black. Full of slats that give it a unique look, this recently facelifted car also gets vertically aligned daylight running LEDs.
The stance of the car and the rest of the detailing isn’t as aggressive. A prominent crease line runs all the way from the front wheel to the rear of the car, the side skirt is hitched up over the rear wheel, and at the rear, there are inserts at the bottom of the bumper. The boot itself is large and practical, but not big enough to make it look disproportionate. The tail-lights, however, do look a touch oversized.
Dimensionally, the Vios is shorter than the Honda City with a length of 4,420mm as against the latter’s 4,442mm, and the City has the longer wheelbase too. But like its sister car, the Etios, the Vios is wider at 1,700mm, and that gives it an advantage.
The big challenge for Toyota, however, will be to get interior quality up to that of the Honda City. While the design is quite modern with the curved dash, integrated doorpads, the deep dish instrument cluster, many of the plastics are still quite hard, and details like the touchscreen and possibly climate control system have to be updated. Space and comfort, however, are quite impressive. The cabin is wide and the front seats are big. And there’s plenty of legroom and width at the rear as well.
The Vios will come powered by a 108hp version of the 1.5-litre petrol it currently sells in India. This DOHC 16-valve engine will get dual VVT-I or Toyota’s continuously variable valve timing, higher compression pistons and a more aggressive fuel delivery system. This should allow the Vios to enjoy strong performance, the muscular responses of the engine; something to look forward to.
With automatics selling well in the segment, Toyota has also decided to launch the car with a CVT variant. The unit can be used in manual mode as well, with seven steps pre-selected.
The diesel version, however, hasn’t been signed off for India yet. Toyota could introduce the car with its 88hp 1.4 DDiS engine, currently under the hood of the Corolla. And to spice things up, and charge a bit of a premium, it could also launch a TRD or sportier version of the car.

Source: AutocarIndia
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