[aditya79india]

^^^ at that price point, expect people to simply pay a tad higher and go for the Innova. TML still doesn't have the brand strength to go head on with Toyota. Best pricing would be a tad shy of the XUV.

[Holyghost]

If Tata is really aiming horizonext as a long term and if they have confidence in the product and a will to overhaul TASS experience, I dont think Tata would be willing at a price war.

Their new set of vehicles including the already launched Zest has to run a life cycle. That will take atleast 5 years of brand building requiring vehicle reliability and good service experience. Selling vehicles at loss during this time will not help. They might be looking at low volume with avg profits to run these brand re-building time frame. I am not keeping high hopes on the pricing.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by aditya79india

^^^ at that price point, expect people to simply pay a tad higher and go for the Innova. TML still doesn't have the brand strength to go head on with Toyota. Best pricing would be a tad shy of the XUV.

I have to agree, they will not move any Hexa's by pricing it anywhere close to Innova. Irrespective of how good the Hexa is prices north of 12 lacs will be tough to justify for the Tata brand at the moment. Tata needs to register the Hexa as a success in the minds of Indian auto consumers and the best way to do it is to offer it initially as stunning value for money.

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by Holyghost

If Tata is really aiming horizonext as a long term and if they have confidence in the product and a will to overhaul TASS experience, I dont think Tata would be willing at a price war.

Their new set of vehicles including the already launched Zest has to run a life cycle. That will take atleast 5 years of brand building requiring vehicle reliability and good service experience. Selling vehicles at loss during this time will not help. They might be looking at low volume with avg profits to run these brand re-building time frame. I am not keeping high hopes on the pricing.

^^^ that strategy could have a chance if TML finances (domestic operations) were in a healthy state. But that is not the case. Moreover the passenger vehicle division has consistently turned losses. At the moment it is of utmost importance to them to increase sales volumes, improve plant utilisation and have better productivity in operations. Ranking the Hexa up against the Innova and then turning Aria like numbers may not even see them recoup the additional investment, let alone recover the piled up losses on the Aria platform and product development etc. Priced under the XUV, it may still attract some serious buyer attention.

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by aditya79india

^^^ at that price point, expect people to simply pay a tad higher and go for the Innova. TML still doesn't have the brand strength to go head on with Toyota. Best pricing would be a tad shy of the XUV.

Apparently, the sense of this planning is that a person spending 16-18L OTR, would definitely consider long term warranty commitment if the features & vehicle dynamics are significantly ahead of the competition.

Here, the HEXA is 1.5 times more powerful than the Innova & they've seriously sprouced up the dashboard infotainment & other interiors.

They aren't aiming to eat into the whole Innova pie, infact apparently they're aiming for 1000-1200 units a month initially (first 8-9 months), and then grow (to their hope "exponentially") from then on.

It's believed rather than a straight highway mile muncher (which is where the current Aria will be positioned), the "Target Hexa customer" is more into a luxurious adventure.

I, personally, would choose a company that commits for a longer term with warranty for a product they've been actively refining since a while.

But since all this planning seems to be in the initial formulation stage, I wouldn't be surprised if they develop cold feet and go for the typical extreme-VFM pricing strategy.

[rajneeesh]

I believe while TML will price it competitively, they will not price it too low. They will make the offer tempting by making it better value. Something like 5 year warranty with a Gold AMC package. They had offered a 3 year warranty cum maintenance package with the Zest at the time of the launch ( as also alloy wheels as standard across variants) which was subsequently withdrawn.

They will definitely not price it lower than Storme. The Storme is at 13 lakh ( VX 2WD) and 14.3 Lakh ( VX 4 WD). The Aria will be the flagship for Tata Motors and will be more feature rich compared to the bare bones Storme. it's ositioning will be higher.

However, unlike the Aria where they had initially launched only high end 4WD variants, the Hexa will have 3-4 variants straddling a wider price range. They would be aiming to create a separate segment rather than go for Innova head on. They would be aiming at the XUV 500 customer ( W8 & W10 variants ) as well as the segment between the XUV500 and the Fortuner. There is a Rs. 10 lakh difference in these two products and no one is operating in it at present. If the Fortuner can get 1500 customers at 25-30 lakh a pop, a well made Hexa can aim at 1500-2000 a month market at 13-17 lakh ( ex show room).

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

Here, the HEXA is 1.5 times more powerful than the Innova & they've seriously sprouced up the dashboard infotainment & other interiors.

The next gen Innova due for launch h soon is expected to have all these attributes also. Essentially it is a question of brand strength that TML would lose to in a TML vs Toyota match. Even a 5yr warranty with a Gold AMC package won't reply shore up volumes (remember GM India). Customer perception of superior Toyota quality will win over TML assurance of quality. The key will be to avoid competition with the Innova.

Also they should have a 2 pronged strategy. Keep the taxi variant of Aria alive and push it very aggressively against the current Innova among fleet operators as Toyota would keep one variant of current Innova alive for Taxi operators. With the Hexa, under UT the next Gen Innova by a good 3 Lacs or so for the top variant, as also offer a longer list of variants at wider price points.

[GrammarNazi]

I should've added "Current Innova prices"

Originally Posted by aditya79india

The next gen Innova due for launch....

Currently, the top end Innova is ~18.5L OTR in Bangalore.

When the VGT/VNT version with 120bhp - 320 NM - 14kmpl (assumed) is launched, the top variant will most probably be at 19.5-20L with 3 years 1L km warranty.

If the Hexa, 154bhp - 400NM - 16kmpl (assumed - with 6 forward gears), is at ~18L OTR for the top end 4x2 variant, with 6 years 1.8L km warranty, attractive AMC, 8 Speaker Harman Kardon system & brilliant infotainment, IMO for sure it will pose as a good alternative.

[kaviprem]

^^ The top-end Innova [ZX, BS IV, 7 seater] in Bangalore is 20L. So, any day, Innova is going to continue as a "Day time robbery" product on the road in India as long as we, Indians are so loyal to Toyota !

Prem.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

^^ The top-end Innova [ZX, BS IV, 7 seater] in Bangalore is 20L. So, any day, Innova is going to continue as a "Day time robbery" product on the road in India as long as we, Indians are so loyal to Toyota !

Prem.

Very well said. But as things stand today, by patronising Toyota or for that matter, any one manufacturer, in droves as is our herd mentality, we have created virtual monopolies. I would also personally like Toyota to lose some sales nos. on Innova so that they land back on Mother Earth. Innova prices would not have been what they are if we had not patronised it to an extent that we have. BTW, does Toyota increase prices every month or what?

[aditya79india]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

I should've added "Current Innova prices"



Currently, the top end Innova is ~18.5L OTR in Bangalore.

When the VGT/VNT version with 120bhp - 320 NM - 14kmpl (assumed) is launched, the top variant will most probably be at 19.5-20L with 3 years 1L km warranty.

If the Hexa, 154bhp - 400NM - 16kmpl (assumed - with 6 forward gears), is at ~18L OTR for the top end 4x2 variant, with 6 years 1.8L km warranty, attractive AMC, 8 Speaker Harman Kardon system & brilliant infotainment, IMO for sure it will pose as a good alternative.

Originally Posted by kaviprem

^^ The top-end Innova [ZX, BS IV, 7 seater] in Bangalore is 20L. So, any day, Innova is going to continue as a "Day time robbery" product on the road in India as long as we, Indians are so loyal to Toyota !

Prem.

Even the aria was any day far better equipped than the Innova and as admitted by some much better to drive. But I am not talking about technicalities. A purchase decision is a sentiments driven decision. And few people would bet 18-20L on a Tata product if priced near the Innova. Period

Case in point, the Zest with its pricing better than the competition has sold better than the Bolt with its ridiculous pricing.

[sasi@8689]

Been following this thread and with this background in mind, read the autocar article for the second time yesterday. As much as the author consciously tried to put it as an all new vehicle by repeating the word 'suv' many times, i just could not take that 'aria' out of my head. Interiors look fab, dash, steering everything looked good, rear and front designs are good, but in the end, i believe, an average customer would look at it as a 'facelifted aria' and not as an all new vehicle. I couldn't help thinking that with all the efforts TATA had put in, if it would have been more sensible to go that extra mile (even at the cost of one more year) and come up with a new vehicle. In fact it was mentioned how TATA roped in a seat manufacturer who works on euro luxury cars to fine tune the seats in hexa. I would personally feel bad if it turns out to be good vehicle with sensible pricing (like zest) but fails to bring in the much wanted sales numbers to the company and its dealers.

On the comparison with innova, in my opinion, as the things stand in today's market, only maruti suzuki or hyundai are in a position to bring in a real threat to innova. If either of them can bring in a genuine 7 seater utility vehicle differentiating themselves on price (lower compared to innova) or value (offering better specs, design and features at same price), that would be the first serious threat to the segment leader. Between both of them, i would say hyundai is better placed with its readily available large capacity diesels, better design flair and comparative better customer acceptance at medium to high price brackets.

TATA has a lot to catch up to figure back in the customers' radar and really wish they don't get demoralized as the path they are on is a serious long one. All the best to them

[ptushar]

Originally Posted by sasi@8689

read the autocar article for the second time yesterday. As much as the author consciously tried to put it as an all new vehicle by repeating the word 'suv' many times, i just could not take that 'aria' out of my head.

One way to do that would be continue with the Aria, maybe announce a simple facelift a month before the Hexa launch and then launch the Hexa with all fanfare. In any case the Aria is selling in the lower end of the double digit spectrum, hence keeping it alive for a year after the Hexa launch will not affect Tata in a big way.

Originally Posted by sasi@8689

TATA has a lot to catch up to figure back in the customers' radar and really wish they don't get demoralized as the path they are on is a serious long one. All the best to them

+1 to that. Am really looking forward to Hexa being a success. It will just make the market more competitive.

Any further news on when this is likely to be launched?

[saurabh2711]

I am sure most of you might have had a feel of Aria at one point or the other. However my 2 cents:

Aria's failure is entirely on TATA themselves to be blamed.
I am owning the top end of this beauty for around 3 months now. While owning a Safari-Ex in parallel. Aria is definately a top notch vehicle had TATA really shown some respect for it.
My friends & some neighbour did raised eyebrows when they saw this 17Lac beast standing at my doors. Some even commented that this is a big mistake. However the moment they sat in the vehicle, their face was enough to explain that whatever they thought of Aria was inccorrect. Though I myself have read the threads, where they had bad experiences with Aria. But then only TATA to blame it, for not being able to fix them on time & live upto to customer expectation. Specially the higher version. Person who pays 15Lacs+, expect a special treatment. Hence the complaints. Why does everyone forgets that Extended warranty, where all the nuisances were covered. No doubt the trouble caused due to vehicle downtime is irrepairable.

It is not only mine but another owner's feeling that :
If we remove all the TATA logos from the car & forget for a moment that this is a TATA vehicle. Looking at the features (Pride 4x4 especially) is packed with, people will happily pay more than 25 lacs for it. ABS, EBD, ESP, Multiple Aribags, Climate Control AC lots of storage, Herman Music system, Satnav>> keep counting, its a fairly big list. Same will be the case with Hexa, I guess.

Even if Hexa is a facelift of Aria, be it. Aria carried Dicor & then much refined Vericor as engine. Now their tie up with LandRover will definately bring out a far better engine. No mention for the upgrade of existing comfort level of Aria. I have lots of hope for Hexa, I am praying that prise should be competitive to stay in business. None to mention about reliability. That has to go up.
TATA cannot be wrong two times for two world class products.

Forget about the initial image of Safari, that it is a high maintainence vehicle; TATA wasn't even able to defend that. Where in, Safari actually demands for regular (read timely) services: nothing else. TATA's simply cannot defend their own products. SAD.

I have seen this car perform (both of other's & mine). I can only say guys responsible for Aria's failure should resign & start a puncture repair shop. . They belong there, instaed of working on some high end vehicle.


If Hexa goes down, feel sorry for TATA.
Why not run both the vehicles in parallel to avoid misunderstanding of any sorts.

Originally Posted by ptushar

One way to do that would be continue with the Aria, maybe announce a simple facelift a month before the Hexa launch and then launch the Hexa with all fanfare.

+1 ptushare. Saw your comments after I was done posting.

All the best Hexa.

Regards,
Saurabh.

[Ragavsr]

While Tata can price the higher end variants a bit higher than XUV500, they should have a base variant which has the necessary safety and comfort features similar to the XUV W4 which sells for around 11.4 lacs ex showroom price.

Tata should try to undercut the W4's price or at worst match it. That would give it a VFM tag which would make the car a success.

The XUV W4 has dual airbags,ABS,power doors,mirrors and windows,rear wash wipe with defogger and a music system.

Such a pricing shouldn't be difficult as the Aria was selling at a fire sale price of 8.99 lakhs. Adding dual airbags,ABS and rear wash wipe shouldn't add more than 60-70K i guess.