[DCEite]

Originally Posted by venkats2001

Any thoughts on why the Xcent is not selling as much as the Amaze? It seems to be a far better product (feature-laden interiors, aggressive pricing, and Hyundai's reliability and ASS?

Totally due to the diesel engine.

The Xcent's 3 cylinder diesel engine disappoints on performance, specially on highways.

Whereas the Amaze and DZire have far better performing mills.

Having said that, the Xcent Petrol is opposite story. The Petrol Xcent scores over the Amaze Petrol easily in most parameters and to an extent DZire Petrol too. But still, India's fixation with Honda and Maruti badge never seems to end. Besides, some people do not like Xcent's rear looks.

[IndiFuture]

I must admit that I've been an avid and loyalist Team-BHP reader but a shy blogger. But the amazing trends of March got me to pen down a few thoughts:

1. I had an opportunity to interact with the Late Karl Slym through Twitter and I had shared a few ideas on Tata's revival. Firstly, I had asked them to break the unit into 2 catchy brands devoid of the Tata logo, one each for hatch/sedans and SUVs/MUVs on the lines of JLR. All of these could be sub-brands of TM (Tata Motors), something in line with GM. Secondly, Tata should immediately focus on aggresive sales and politest service in its class, and give a better impression that Maruti. But after his sad demise, things aren't really happening. Tata learnt the hard way that burning cars don't sell, but alas, they are yet to understand that just having good cars don't rake in the moolah either. That they should've learnt when they were with Fiat, or at least with the Vista/Manza/Aria/Storme/...

2. Honda is the future competitor for the number 2 slot. With the upcoming 7 seater SUV (that will not have the Brio dash, thank goodness), Honda is surely looking to unsettle Hyundai for good. Head-on, its been a no competition other than the hatch - City vs Verna and Amaze vs Xcent. Even Jazz might steal some limelight from the i20 Elite. As Indians move up the value chain, Honda is surely going to make a bigger impact.

3. I would personally like to see Maruti's market share come down to 30% (not in terms of unit sales though) as the overall market grows in the next 5 years. Will that happen? Trust my words, the trends are indicative of that. Maruti is no longer creating a rampage on the top 10, and other cars are moving up slowly but surely. Even though Alto sells like mad for no apparent reason other than better sales network in semi-urban India, that advantage might slowly fade away as others bolster their presence in India. But also, the other car makers need to take a leaf out of Maruti's sales book. When I enquired about the Ertiga couple of years back, they kept calling me for almost a year. Compared to that, I never got a return call from Fiat (Linea), Chevrolet (new Sail sedan), or Skoda (Rapid). That itself tells the difference.

[Autolock123]

Originally Posted by IndiFuture

. But also, the other car makers need to take a leaf out of Maruti's sales book. When I enquired about the Ertiga couple of years back, they kept calling me for almost a year.

I second that, i had inquired for Maruti Suzuki Swift in two different dealership and kept getting calls regarding purchase decision. Everytime they would politely ask me when can they call back if decision is yet to be made.

After couple of days when i got a call, i told them that i have booked a different brand car, then the sales person did try to understand what factors made me to change my decision.

On the other hand, sadly, when i informed the same to Hyundai the sales person said " why did you waste my time".

[VineetG]

Originally Posted by bosporus

I had the ill-fortune of owning an Opel Corsa, and the ownership experience was, by far, the worst ever. I went through 4 service stations in Delhi / Gurgaon, and they were all crooks.
(For examples of cheating service stations, beat this: I call the service station for a problem, on the official line, and the guy on the line says, I'll come to your place & fix it for 50%; I said how, he said I'll take the part out of another car lying here. I take down his name, complain to GM, go to the station a month later for service, and am assigned the same guy, who is needless to say, still working there )

A friend worked in GM at the time, and I finally asked for his recommendation for a service station: he asked the Head of Service, and the reply he got was, don't even go to any service station in Gurgaon; I can personally call them for you but I still don't trust them. In Delhi, he recommended two. I went to the Okhla one (forget the name) and even though he called the GM in advance, I was still cheated, and I still needed an intervention from this friend. Finally, I sold the car. And I swore, never ever to touch anything GM with a bargepole.

Thankfully, with my Vento, (nearly 4 years now) the experience has been stellar. The car had some teething problems initially, but VW has handled them really well. And I love how they go out of their way to delight you.

I absolutely agree with this. I also have suffered at the hands of GM by buying an Opel Corsa. Finally had to scrap the car and sell it as junk, just after 6 years of use. It was that bad. The service dealers were all crooks.
I dissuaded lots of my friends who were interested in GM vehicles like Optra, Sail etc.
These kinds of experiences of poor quality, expensive maintenance and unscrulous dealers, many times in connivance with company officials, do percolate down and create a negative perception, which is so very hard to change.
Skoda, GM, Tata, Fiat : all have themselves to blame. Its the years of negative perception that has accumulated and takes forever to go away.

[spoth001]

I see new Honda City everywhere. There is not an instance where I have not spotted one. The moment I think of it, it is spotted right away ! I await for the new Honda Civic now. honda is missing out badly in that segment.

[Fornax]

Having read the Renault Lodgy review justniw, I cannot but help think tthat Renault is gonna leapfrog VW and Ford soon, likely May 2015!

Honda seems to have discovered an yet unknown Indian town OR has finally managed to get what it truly deserves.

Tata should simply sell off its passenger car segment to Mahindra as it'll likely create an unbeatable truly Indian competitor to the foreign manufacturers.

Hyundai badly needs a MUV...atleast an announcement with a 12 months fwd guidance will help.

Chevy should simply wake up...they seem comatose compared to the hyperactive competition.

[balajisv]

Originally Posted by Fornax

Tata should simply sell off its passenger car segment to Mahindra as it'll likely create an unbeatable truly Indian competitor to the foreign manufacturers.

Well, don't write them off so quick! Their pockets are huge and can afford to outright buy the topper of our market.

They have many potential volume generating cars in their pipeline. 2016/17 performance is their real report card.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by zenren

That shows where the primary clientele for Tata comes from. With Zest and Bolt, they've discouraged cab and fleet operators who are still buying the older models. The sustained numbers there indicates that they were getting practically no sales from private buyers in the past.

Even if it is small, almost the entire numbers for Bolt and Zest came from private buyers and hence Tata is slowly climbing the uphill path. It remains to be seen if they stall midway and start rolling back downhill once the current momentum is gone. They have no clue how to sustain the interest in their car models over an extended period. Their marketing department should be cleaned up overnight!

The Manza / Indigo range outsells the Zest. Even then I think Zest has made inroads . It is incorrect to assume that all Manza/ Indigo sales are to the taxi segment. Substantial number of Manza attract really well to do customers.

Sales of Zest are bonus to Tata, though not as big as they would have liked. A very competent car not doing as well as it should is unfortunate.

Had Zest been launched by another company, many people say, it would have been more successful. True, but not because only Tata, it may also because of prospective customer's negative perception which again points fingers to Tata.

With Zest, perception started changing. With entire product portfolio revamp in near future things may actually be good for them.

[IndiFuture]

Originally Posted by spoth001

I await for the new Honda Civic now. honda is missing out badly in that segment.

With due respect, I doubt that Honda is really missing out. There's strong reason why Honda isn't there. Take a look at the cars in that segment:
1. Corolla 825
2. Octavia 293
3. Jetta 247
4. Elantra 83
5. Cruze 79
6. Fluence 5

Altogether 1532 cars. I mean, Indians are really buying SUVs or Innovas if they can afford 15 lakhs. Sedans, outdated!

Originally Posted by simplyself

The Manza / Indigo range outsells the Zest.

IMO, the biggest problems of the Zest are its roundish looks that reminds of the Indica legacy, and also the extra-ground clearence (makes the car look too high - not sure if this has been discussed before), which I feel takes away from its Sedanish style. I'll definitely think twice due to these reasons.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by bosporus

I had the ill-fortune of owning an Opel Corsa, and the ownership experience was, by far, the worst ever. I went through 4 service stations in Delhi / Gurgaon, and they were all crooks.

A friend worked in GM at the time, and I finally asked for his recommendation for a service station: he asked the Head of Service, and the reply he got was, don't even go to any service station in Gurgaon; I can personally call them for you but I still don't trust them.

Originally Posted by VineetG

I absolutely agree with this. I also have suffered at the hands of GM by buying an Opel Corsa. Finally had to scrap the car and sell it as junk, just after 6 years of use. It was that bad. The service dealers were all crooks.

Sorry to hear you had such poor and frustrating experiences with GM. I don't disbelieve a word you say. I owned a Corsa for 10 years (2000 to 2010; about 75,000 kms) and an Astra (2000 to 2006; about 90,000 kms) and both served us well. The Corsa was almost trouble free through its 10 years. The quality of dealer service was so-so to put it politely but I always befriended whoever seemed a reasonably competent service engineer and got my car needs fulfilled. Because of all the choice available in the market today I wouldn't buy a GM product. Not questioning your experience simply putting mine down.

[aarcher]

It may be the perception or the dwindling sales numbers of the D1 segment.

Old Octavia/Laura which were such good sellers in their times have now been reduced to dismal sales numbers in the current form (New Octavia).

IMO the car is competent enough for the segment. Any other reasons why it could not sell in bigger numbers?

[sleepyk]

Originally Posted by aarcher

It may be the perception or the dwindling sales numbers of the D1 segment.

Old Octavia/Laura which were such good sellers in their times have now been reduced to dismal sales numbers in the current form (New Octavia).

IMO the car is competent enough for the segment. Any other reasons why it could not sell in bigger numbers?

Skoda's dismal sales and service record.
I'm in the market for a D segment car myself, and I loved a lot of things about the Octavia, but the abysmal quality of Skoda dealerships was off-putting.
They have a universal reputation for being very bad at after sales service, and unless they change their dealer's and staff's attitude, they cannot compete with the stellar service and bulletproof reliability of Honda or Toyota.

[geotracks]

Originally Posted by sleepyk

Skoda's dismal sales and service record.
I'm in the market for a D segment car myself, and I loved a lot of things about the Octavia, but the abysmal quality of Skoda dealerships was off-putting.
They have a universal reputation for being very bad at after sales service, and unless they change their dealer's and staff's attitude, they cannot compete with the stellar service and bulletproof reliability of Honda or Toyota.

Even though in all forums people keep discussing about bad ASS of Skoda, yet so many Skoda cars are seen on the road. Looks like their solid build quality and slightly lesser cost than corresponding VW seem to boost sales. The thought for many current Skoda owners maybe that, it has a solid proven diesel engine (TDI) & good petrol engine coupled with good build, so other than regular servicing they need not worry too much about ASS due to lesser niggles?? Anyways, the Rapids' & Octavias' seem to be selling, may not be as much as Hondas & Toyota but in decent numbers.

[sleepyk]

Originally Posted by geotracks

Even though in all forums people keep discussing about bad ASS of Skoda, yet so many Skoda cars are seen on the road. Looks like their solid build quality and slightly lesser cost than corresponding VW seem to boost sales. The thought for many current Skoda owners maybe that, it has a solid proven diesel engine (TDI) & good petrol engine coupled with good build, so other than regular servicing they need not worry too much about ASS due to lesser niggles?? Anyways, the Rapids' & Octavias' seem to be selling, may not be as much as Hondas & Toyota but in decent numbers.

I'm not just talking about their reputation on the forums.

Everyone I've talked to in Ahmedabad has had negative experiences with the Skoda dealer.

I have also felt that they aren't really interested in selling the car when I visited Torque Auto in Ahmedabad and JMD in Navi Mumbai.

And as far as I know, VW Vento has higher numbers than Skoda Rapid.

[ChupaRustam]

Thanks Aditya for the numbers.

For C2 Segment: Honda and Ciaz are going to be market leaders for quite some time to come.Why? Because of Japanese tag IMHO.

I had been in the market for a C2 segment car myself and every seller was going head over heels in offering discounts - with the exception of City and Ciaz - who were not giving even one rupee discount. No freebees/exchange offers either. Only thing I got really free was a bouquet of flowers and one chocolate bar (plus corporate discount 1500)

You will see that Japanese are the top selling models in most segments. Such is the reliability of the phrase "Japanese quality". In fact, in C2 onwards, it seems Toyota and Honda are not even trying ot compete with each other.

One of my friends works in Maruti and tells me that Japanese colleagues really drive them to the points of craziness/anger/frustration, with their never-ending quest for improvement. Every time Indian engineers meet the quality standard, they raise the bar and make targets much tougher. Hard life for employees, but brilliant products for public. In other words, Indians are not mad for Maruti cars just like that. they do indeed make good products.

I don't know how the scene is at Honda, but imagine that it may not be much different.

P.S. Aditya, I think i10 should be marked as B1 segment in your reports.