[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Compact Sedans - 15 reasons why you probably shouldn't listen to the enthusiast!


Time and again we have discussed about how compact sedans have become the curse of modern India. From causing global warming to destroying internet neutrality, they have been blamed with every issue under the sun. Ok, poor joke. But the segment has been blamed for destroying the sense of proportions among sedans, fooling customers in purchasing hatchbacks with an afterthought boot, having minuscule boots which practically render them useless and what not! Infact, I believe this segment could very well be the most hated amongst the enthusiast community in India.

And one of the hottest selling segments as well. Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai, Honda and TATA were able to sell 33,252 compact sedans in March 2015 compared to 28,338 of their hatchback variants. Does this mean that the average Indian consumer is being exploited at large?

So who could be right - the average consumer or the enthusiast? In other words - could there be some reason for the popularity of this segment that the enthusiast refuses to accept?

You want to purchase a brand new compact sedan and consult this with an enthusiast friend. Here are some his points that you could come across, and below are the reasons why I feel they don't have much substance.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

1. Compact sedans are ugly. Disproportionate and are designed as an afterthought.

Looks are subjective. But then - a vast majority of enthusiasts consider compact sedans as ugly. The segment which was defined when the second generation Swift DZire was launched was earmarked as the segment of ugly and disproportionate designs.

However - design and proportions are never constrained by a single limiting factor - the length in this particular case. The father of this segment - the Indigo CS was a proportionate design IMO, even compared to the squarish boot on the original Indigo LS. So is the Amaze and Xcent, both of which were designed along with their hatchback siblings. While the case of the Indigo can be dismissed as an accident, Amaze and Xcent shows the evolution of the segment. Personally, I really like the proportions on the Xcent and Amaze and can't really figure out the ugliness with these two. Zest and Figo Aspire showed that good designs can be pulled off even if the proportions are compromised a bit.

The segment is still at a naive stage and most of the products are derived either by adding to their hatch siblings or subtracting from their sedan counterparts. I think the third generation cars in the segment might turn out to be more proportionate and good looking designs.



2, Whatever, it is still a hatchback trying to look like a sedan. Why not buy the hatchback instead?

The whole world is getting filled with imposters. Manufacturers call it 'niche segments'. But we know of them as impersonators. Hatchbacks imitating sedans, hatchbacks imitating SUVs, SUVs imitating sport cars... The list continues. However, these niche segments mature over time and we learn to accept them as genuine makes. The Ford Ecosport for example created a nice segment in the country which is soon going to be filled with many choices including the Maruti Suzuki YBA.

Same is the case with the compact sedan segment.

Sedans have always been more aspirational than hatchbacks, and not just in India. Dont let the Indian enthusiast fool you into that one. Otherwise, why would the A class give birth to the CLA, the minuscule A3 have a sedan variant that is only the size of a Honda City? Why are all the heavy weight luxury cars including the S-class and the Rolls Royce of the world sold in the sedan form - when theoretically - a sedan makes the least utilization of available space as compared to hatchbacks / estates? So if you do want to purchase a sedan (even if its for the neighbours to see), I don't see a reason to squirm in front of that enthusiast who would have preferred a hatchback instead.

And its not like every compact sedan is uglier compared to its hatchback! In my books - Amaze scores better than the Brio and ditto with the Zest / Bolt, Aspire / Figo combo.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

3. Ok, might be the case. But you are paying so much more for just a boot!

Cars are commodities after all that follows demand based pricing. None of the products in the market are priced based on their manufacturing costs. They are priced on their potential to sell at those rates. A Honda City does not cost 2L more to manufacture as compared to the competition - it is priced so because of its sales potential. The same reason why it was priced above Jazz for the Indian market when prices across many markets are the other way around. A compact sedan is priced within 60k - 120k of its hatchback sibling - for the very same reason.

Still if you are interested to know the actual rates, Tushar has decoded the subject here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ct-sedans.html

Lets analyze the sales for the month of March 2015 -

Swift (16722) + Grand i10 (8856) + Brio (1642) + Bolt (1118) = 28,338 cars.
DZire (17971) + Xcent (4500) + Amaze (8128) + Zest (2653) = 33,252 cars.

So why are the compact sedans priced this way over their hatchback siblings? Simply because they have the aspirational value to sell at those rates as compared to hatchbacks, as the above figures clearly indicate.

I can already see a few enthusiasts squirming - 'There you go - The cheap Indian mentality is the reason for all this!' Well, care to explain the pricing of the Merc CLA as compared to the A class? That's not a result of the Indian mentality I hope!


4. So you want a sedan. And you want it cheap! Why not get a proportionate small sedan then? Verito / Etios / Fiesta Classic/ Chevrolet Sail?

Ah! You forgot the Indigo Manza. See, I told you proportions dont come so easy even if the length restrictions are released. Neither does beauty. Verito and Etios might have been designed as a sedan from ground up - but neither of them can be called beautiful. Infact, i would even prefer the Amaze, Xcent or Zest compared to these options. Classic was a booted hatchback too, only it was an old platform modified specifically for India.

And then comes the matter of quality. when you factor in more tax for the same price levels, somewhere the manufacturing costs and quality had to suffer. You see -

Manufacturing costs + Margins + 12% tax = compact sedan pricing.
Manufacturing costs + Margins + 20% tax = other sedans above priced similarly.

Going under the sub 4m radar enables manufacturers to make better quality products, and still come out with competitive pricing compared to other entry level sedans without compromising on their margins. The Hyundai Xcent and TATA Zest are the best examples of this. Quality products inside out but still having a very competitive pricing compared to the segment levels. Zest is a brilliant product compared to the older Manza, but is priced significantly lower, almost killing the Manza overnight. 8% tax savings makes a big difference to the pricing indeed, whether the manufacturer chooses to pass it on to the customers or not. Ducking under the sub -4m radar enabled TATA to offer a better product at a much lower price. Even the New DZire was a much more competent product compared to the older one, but was priced lesser at launch - thanks to the 4m rule.

Still dont believe me? See below -

Xcent, DZire, Amaze and Zest pictured below -


Sail, Etios, Verito and Fiesta Classic pictured below -

* Etios and Fiesta pictures courtesy of respective websites.

And then there is the matter of pricing. Ford Classic and Amaze are exceptions, but in general these cars are priced a little above the CS segment for offering much less in terms of features and quality.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

5. Enough of this entry level sedan nonsense. If I were you - I would just buy the premium hatchback instead.

This has always been the case IMO, in most of the markets around the world. You either get more 'value' from your hatchback, or get a sedan - either by paying more money or by selecting a sedan based on a smaller car. A Scirocco makes more 'sense' than a Jetta, so does the cheaper Golf. B - class makes more 'sense' than the CLA, so does the cheaper A class. This is also seen across other aspirational body styles - the SUV for example. A Ford Focus makes more sense than a Ford Ecosport, so does the cheaper Fiesta. And I'm not even talking of the Indian market yet.

This is the same reason why estate versions are a dying breed as well, even though they provide the maximum practicality. Form factor, you see!

Same is the case with the Indian context. Cars like i20 and Jazz will always offer more space and versatility thanks to the hatchback form factor, while being priced at the levels of the compact sedans. But then, similarly - they have spawned sedan variants which are priced significantly above them as well. Elite i20 does not have a direct sedan variant, but the Verna is comparable. And Jazz has given rise to the City and if rumours are to be believed - there will be a significant price difference this time around.

A bigger hatchback like the Hyundai i30 would have offered a lot more compared to the Verna, i40 might have made more sense over the Elantra, but then hatchbacks dont have that much aspirational value in India - not even amongst the enthusiast crowd. Hence the choice is not available for us.


6. At approximately 20 - 30% higher we are getting VW Vento, Nissan Sunny, Honda City etc. So why not upgrade to that?

And what are these? Longer sedan versions of premium hatchbacks, and are priced significantly higher at that. For example - was the previous generation City 50% better than the top end Jazz X? Is the Vento highline 33% better than the Polo highline, now that the engine is shared between the two?

Longer doesn't necessarily mean proportionate either. The Nissan Sunny is an example here.

Don't make the mistake of considering these cars above as global cars. No, they are not! Polo, Jazz etc are more universal in nature compared to the sedans they are based on. Vento was primarily designed for the Indian market, but then exported to south east Asia and Russia. City was developed mainly for south east Asia and India, and same is the case with the Nissan Sunny which is also being exported to Mexico. But the appeal for these cars are not universal, and there are many markets that consider their size too small to be offered in the sedan guise.

Also, before you proudly state the fact that these cars are only 20% higher, think about the hatchbacks they are based on. Take the below example for instance. In the sheet, I have compared cars from both the categories. Top variants of the hatchbacks go head on against the top variants of their sedans. Incase of the case of the compact sedans - you get a boot for some extra money. In case of these premium sedans - you get a bigger boot + some more equipment for a lot more of your hardearned money. But underneath all of that - it is still based on a hatchback with similar qualities as that on which the compact sedan is based on. You want a sedan for this sort of money - you pay for it through your nose to get that premium hatchback converted to a sedan. Be it a compact sedan or the so-called premium sedan.





(From the above charts, some may argue that the Elite i20 is not the Verna hatchback. But compare the specs of the Elite i20 to Verna, it is more than worth of being considered the equivalent hatchback.)

As Honda publicly revealed during the launch of the first generation Jazz, it doesnt cost much to manufacture a sedan over its equivalent hatchback. So please dont assume that the above difference is due to manufacturing costs. Tax + Profit margins make up for most of it. Remember - the sedan segment is not as price sensitive as the premium hatchback segment it is based on.




VW Vento offers 10% extra length over the Polo for a premium of 3.77L. City adds 12% length over the new Jazz. Nissan Sunny offers 15% more length than the Micra at a premium of 3.03L. TATA Manza gives 16% at 2.54L.

Amaze adds 10% extra length over the Brio at a premium of 1.36L. Hyundai gives a 6% for 1.07L. TATA Zest gives you only 4.4% but then the premium is also only 31k, while offering 390 litres of boot space compared to 460 on the Manza and being considered a better car overall. The length limitation has also forced these manufacturers to package their cars properly compared to cars like the Linea for instance. There is decent interior space and decent bootspace as well on offer.

You pay a lot less to convert that hatchback into a compact sedan, compared to what the C segment hatchback sedan charges you!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

7. But these cars have proper bootspace - which offer decent storage space. Compact sedans have miniscule boot similar to the hatchback siblings.

Not really. Ofcourse there are exceptions, but in general - the compact sedan class fits right in between the hatchbacks and the sedans out there. Here is a small comparo - and it shows that the Maruti Suzuki DZire is more of an exception rather than the rule for the segment.

Purists have always argued the necessity to buy a compact sedan for an additional 100L of bootspace as compared to the hatchback versions. However - the C segment offers just that - an additional 100 litres of boot space over the compact sedan - if bootspace was the only consideration.



And people dont buy cars just for practicality. If so, the Skoda Octavia Combi would have outsold the regular Octavia. But that is not the case. A purchase needs many factors out of which only one is practicality.

8. Not only bootspace, these compact sedans are cramped for interior space.

Since bootspace is not the only criterion - lets compare the interior space as well. Cars like the Xcent, Amaze, Zest etc offers so much of useable interior space that it tops few of the C segments sedans in this area. Dont believe me? See the below -

Amaze, Xcent and Zest pictured below -


Linea, Vento and Verna pictured below -


Of course, cars like Ciaz, Sunny and the new Honda City focus a lot of the rear legroom and are in a different level. But that doesn't make the CS segment obsolete. They still offer rear seats that are a comfortable place to be in.

Now lets also take the premium hatchbacks that are supposed to be a lot more comfortable place to be in -

Ecosport, Elite i20 and Punto pictured below -


You do get slightly better width, but there is no huge difference. Yes, they might be better, but are they better enough to claim space as an USP over the CS segment?

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

9. Its not only about space. These cars will have better performance compared to the sub-4m class!

Ok. Lets take the bestsellers of the sedan segment against the best sellers of the compact sedan segment and see if there are any winners here. City and Ciaz constitutes for almost 9/10 cars sold in the C segment, while the same holds true for DZire and Amaze in the CS segment.



The City petrol comes out on top, but thats about it.

True that this is not a defenitive comparison as there are more powerful choices out there like the Verna diesel, Vento diesel, Linea TJet petrol etc. Also, there are weaker powerplants in the CS segment like the Xcent diesel. But then, as explained above - the comparison above accounts for almost 9/10 cars sold from either segments and that should be a defining comparison statistic for the segment. The rest 10% are excused.


10. Safety? Now you cant argue on that one! The quality of sheet metal used on these compact sedans are pathetic.

Despite being signifantly larger than their compact sedan siblings and having a lot more equipment - these cars are within a 100 kgs of their weight. Moreover, none of these cars have been crash tested for their Indian builds. I would take the safety angle with a pinch of salt till its proven in the Indian context.



The bootlids of most cars are shockingly thin nowadays, not just the CS segment. Pictured below are DZire, Amaze, Ciaz and City. Didnt get the similar angle for Ciaz, but hope you get the point. Globally - the focus has been on reducing weight and it shows on most of the new cars, specially the ones with cost cutting in our country. So lets not limit this as a CS segment speciality.

DZire, Amaze, Ciaz and City pictured below -


What is commendable though - are the features available on the C segment sedans - like more airbags, ESC etc.


11. Features? C segment sedans should have more goodies!

You would be surprised looking at the feature set of cars like the Zest or the Xcent SX(o). They offer almost all the goodies entry level C segment offers and some even more. For example, compare the feature set of the Fluidic Verna 4S against the Xcent and you would be shocked to see that there are only a few additions over the mini sedan despite the huge price difference.

See the below team bhp charts for the top variants of Xcent, Zest, Ciaz and City. And unlike the expectation from the price tags, the compact sedans are not out of their league against the biggies.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

13. Its not like the manufacturer is doing you a favour by offering a compact sedan -

It is obvious that the compact sedan segment is more profitable for the manufacturer as well and hence they try to push it ahead of the hatchbacks / premium hatchbacks. For example - Grand i10 does not get good automatic options while Elite i20 doesnt get any automatic variants. Xcent however gets two! Honda brio doesnt get a diesel option while the Amaze does. The lack of interest from Honda is evident with little or nil marketing for the Brio even when the sales are so less compared to the Amaze. Similarly with Bolt and Zest - with the latter getting so many goodies like DRLs, AMT, 90ps diesel etc within a very short pricing difference with the Bolt.

Of course - there are exceptions as well. The Hyundai Xcent for example gets a 1.1L diesel engine compared to the Elite i20. But if rumours are to be believed, Hyundai is already working on fixing this.


14. Dude, if you are hell bent on sub 4m - why dont you consider the sub 4m Ford Ecosport instead?

From an imposter sedan to an imposter SUV.

The Ecosport however has been well accepted. Mainly because it is a great design in itself, and partly because it defined the segment that the ugly Quanto failed at. Perhaps, the appeal for the segment could have been a little worse if there were 3-4 models similar to Quanto in this segment before the Ecosport made its entry. Another factor to note is that the indians consider SUVs above sedans in the hierarchy and hence a compact SUV has better image compared to a compact sedan also.

Anyways, what about all the purists that cried for the premium hatchback now. Or even the proper sedan (SUV here). Almost all the above arguments are true for the Ecosport as well - It is a hatchback trying to look like an SUV, you are paying through your nose mainly for the GC which is partially offset by the firm ride quality. Is grossly overpriced compared to the leading premium hatchback, is smaller than the premium hatch and offers only similar utility. A small percentage increase of money can get you a proper crossover as well. But then - Ecosport can have easier days for now. Atleast, till the refresh (without the SUV'ish spare wheel) hits the market.

Pricing of sub-4m compact sedans v/s the sub-4m compact SUV.


With the Ecosport, you dont even need to pay an additional 20% to get to the next level. And an equivalent hatchback is priced at much less.


We, the enthusiasts seem to be grossly against the hatchbacks pretending as sedans, but warmly welcome them roled up with higher ground clearance at exhorbitant prices. I guess it helps that the Fiesta hatch is not available in our market.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

15. So, what is the whole point?

Just trying to provoke a thought that the overall package should be considered rather than categorisation into the hated compact sedan class. Vehicles in this class are well rounded beyond comprehension. Instead of questioning the reasons to buy one, it would be more useful to discuss why not to.

For other segments - we really do appreciate when a manufacturer provides 90% of something at 70% of the price. I would equate the same to the compact sedan segment. Ok, lets say 80% of the sedan at 70% of the price. Still? Looks are subjective but most people like the sedan form factor, nice enough interiors, nice enough space, nice enough boot space - overall almost nothing lacking in the package except for may be the so-called good looks. Infact, most people in our crowded cities would be happy to give up some good looks for overall practicality of owning a small, but useful sedan. Why do you need to carry around another 400mm of car everywhere just for an addition 50mm of legspace and 100L boot capacity?

Compact sedans are here to stay. Even if the rules are relaxed now, I dont think the segment will die off. Simply because the urbans families have seen the value they provide in an all-round fashion. There are more products getting aligned for the segment too - the TATA Kite sedan for example which plans to undercut the existing crop of small sedans as well. Whether the enthusiasts' community accept it or not, the segment will continue to grow!


PS - For those of you who are wondering why there is no point#12 - Thanks. For Reading.

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

[arvi86]

That's a great effort CrAzY dRiVeR. You have neatly compiled all the pros and cons (Should I call them argument cases?) of compact sedans in one thread. Brilliant!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

the hated compact sedan class. Vehicles in this class are well rounded beyond comprehension.

Well rounded these compact sedans may be, but it's a fact they threw proportions and aesthetics for a toss in the process. Bottom line, they are hated for a reason.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

For other segments - we really do appreciate when a manufacturer provides 90% of something at 70% of the price.

That's exactly the problem. Whenever a segment emerges doing this, it ends up killing the 'something' that you have mentioned. The City offered 90% of Civic at 70% of its price and killed the Civic. Forget the Civic, the segment itself isn't doing great and we have a separate thread running on this - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ura-et-al.html.

So, a few years down the line, I visualize these compact sedans with their chopped-off boots and butchered proportions to rule the roost. That's precisely why I (and I'm sure there are many others) am worried.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Compact sedans are here to stay. Even if the rules are relaxed now, I dont think the segment will die off. Simply because the urbans families have seen the value they provide in an all-round fashion.

, that's the unfortunate truth now.

[chncar]

I think the most hated thing about the so-called compact sedans is the mentality of some of the owners who think that buying one over the hatch it was based on somehow upgrades their 'status'. More than any functional aspect, it is this attitude that people scoff at.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by chncar

I think the most hated thing about the so-called compact sedans is the mentality of some of the owners who think that buying one over the hatch it was based on somehow upgrades their 'status'. More than any functional aspect, it is this attitude that people scoff at.

(Sedan = Status) was true 10 years back. Just like a TV in a household was 30 years back. Things have moved on now.

Now automotive status symbols start at Rs.20 Lacs plus SUVs.

[govindremesh]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Why do you need to carry around another 400mm of car everywhere just for an addition 50mm of legspace and 100L boot capacity?

Exactly the views of my uncle who brought the Amaze VX when I was convincing him to buy the City E instead!

Love it or hate it, the compact sedan segment is here to stay. While I still refuse to accept that the additional box in the back makes any difference compared to the society status offered by a premium hatch, but if people want it, manufacturers will sell it.

It would be interesting to see if in the coming days, the CS harm the sales of their bigger C segment brothers, given the increasing congestion in our cities and lack of parking space.

Really good thread! Made me ponder over my thoughts (I am anti-Compact Sedan guy )

[tejas08]

Great Effort CD!

I agree with your argument that the Compact Sedan Segment is here to stay. The compact sedan segment has certainly evolved with the likes of Zest, XCent, Amaze and Figo Aspire.

The whole misconception of Compact Sedans are ugly has come from the Famous Dzire. (Still no idea how MSIL manages to sell these many Dzires despite being so ugly-looking, and practically very less boot space). Till the time Dzire was over 4M in length, it looked good if not great. But to gain the excise duty benefit all MSIL did was cut-short the boot. This is what made it look horrible.

I think MSIL will soon have to start looking for a new design for the Dzire as this design will not last for long with all other manufacturers coming up with much better models of CS.

One thing as a Tall guy I would like to highlight is, if the driver is tall then a CS does not make sense as it practically leaves no space behind the driver due to the smaller Wheel-base. It is these taller people who actually pass on the comment of less space in CS. (I have done that too) But if you look at it from a family of average sized Indians, a Compact Sedan should suffice the needs fairly well.

[.anshuman]

Would i ever buy a Compact Sedan? No.

Why? Because all of them look ugly and ill-proportioned , are jugaads and even considering practical aspects i find lack of folding rear seats and small boot opening a big disadvantage. While some may think of them as status symbols, but i'd feel embarrassed driving such contraptions.

Please note: I am an enthusiast, don't listen to me