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Originally Posted by AutoNoob
This is the very basic requirement and must be sorted out at the beginning of design, before the finalization of hard-points of suspension and steering. |
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Originally Posted by Carma2017 I am sorry @AutoNoob, but returnability of steering to original position is not a design requirement of highest priority. It is mostly intentional, I guess, with a much higher priority given to a light steering for city usage. This is a feature in Numerous city cars in Europe as well. |
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Originally Posted by AutoNoob
For past few years, Active Return feature is gaining popularity (albeit in premium segment) to achieve good returnability. This employs the same EPS mechanism along with steering angle sensor and additional in-built logic. (PS: Most EPS systems are based on torque sensing, so steering angle sensor is add-on requirement).
As far as the concern raised by jaaz, it may arise due to borderline design, i.e. not fully taking into account the production variantions, and/or improper suspension and steering geometry control/ check. |
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Originally Posted by deetjohn It is a design trait of some EPS units. From MSIL stable, the steering of the tallboys like WagonR, Estilo etc doesn't return at all times. It really depends on the angle of the steering, speed of the car and the banking of the road at a given time.
But the one in the Swift is more responsive in that regard, even though it also got an EPS unit.
Looks like Maruti decided to go the tallboy way for the Ignis. I think they do this for the overtly assisted EPS units. |
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Originally Posted by SoumenD
Are you certain of this? My daily drive is a 2010 Estilo and I never had a situation where the steering didn't return to centre. My apartment parking is on 6th floor and I get to experience this everyday although the speed is 20ish @ 2nd/3rd gear. Even around 40ish it does return.
Did you mean higher speeds? |
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Originally Posted by AutoNoob I humbly disagree with this. Based on my experience in development and integration of different type of steering systems, I can say that there is nothing which can be termed as 'design trait of EPS unit' that affects a customer in terms of performance.
In terms of driver’s experience, there are measurable differences amongst Hydraulic, Electro-Hydraulic and Electro-Mechanical (Electronic) Steering systems. However, when comparing EPS systems, be it C-EPS, P-EPS, DP-EPS, there are hardly any customer detectable differences. The choice of assist system and its specifications depends upon steerable axle load, packaging constraints, electronic integration, past-experience, supplier support, commonization strategy and obviously cost. (There are some 'traits' of Belt-Drive R-EPS or Inline R-EPS in terms of system friction and returnability, but they are well considered during development. Moreover, the segments that apply R-EPS are most likely to adopt some form of Active Return. AFAIK, mass segment car manufacturers in India are yet to adopt R-EPS)
The key factors affecting steering performance (customer detectable) are Suspension geometry (King Pin Inclination, Camber & Castor angles), Tire contact patch dynamics (Friction, Speed, Slip Angle), Overall steering ratio, system friction, available assist from assist system etc.
So, in my opinion, jaaz's concern may be based on a design intent or non-conformity in production or may be jaaz's past experience, where he might have been accustomed to vehicles with better steering returnability.
Every OEM has a segment or vehicle based strategy, so there might be truth in your statement, however without detailed information I can't comment. |
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Originally Posted by deetjohn I agree it is not EPS alone, but a host of components coming together to give any specific car its steering feel. All I wanted to say was that manufacturers do take the prospective customer segment into consideration before taking those decisions. Its not like MSIL doesn't know how to make steering systems that cater to enthusiasts, but they sometimes sign off based on what they think is best for a given car. Could have done the same for Ignis. Its not a defect, they just wanted it to be like it I guess. Just wanted to highlight that. |
As far as I can observe there are two different aspects of steering wheel mechanism that are being mixed:-
1) Feedback.
2) Returnability.
In an ideal world the best unit would have been the one with following:-
1) light at city speeds.
2) Slight heft at highway speeds.
3) quick turn ratio.
4) good feed back from road surfaces.
5) high degree of self centering.
Unassisted steerings cater to points 3,4&5 brilliantly but are very heavy at parking speeds and are hefty at highway speeds as well leading to driving fatigue.
Examples of good unassisted steerings mechanisms at lower price points:-
Erstwhile Maruti Suzuki Zen and Maruti Suzuki esteem.
Hydraulic units usually cater to 1,2,3,4&5 but they are not finger tweerling light at parking speeds and as they use hydraulic pump and motor set up, they are slightly less fuel efficient.
Examples of good HPS at lower price points:-
1) Erstwhile Ford Figo and Fiesta classic.
2) First generation Fiat Punto.
In the interest of fuel efficiency most manufacturers have shifted to EPS system. In their infancy they were good for point 1 only. With later development of related technologies these systems are getting better at points 2,3,4&5 that too at cheaper price points.
Examples of good EPS at lower price points:-
1. Tata EPS developed by ZF Germany, used on Nano twist, Tiago and Zest, all featuring active return technology.
2. Ford EPS used on erstwhile Ford Fiesta with 5 step assistance variation, active return and pull drift compensation.