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Old 30th January 2020, 11:29   #1666
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana View Post
But Nexon changed this dynamic, isn't it?
Not just Nexon, also add Tiago to that list which helped change the things for Tata in good direction.
Quote:
Tata is being trusted more nowadays. Imagine the number of people who want a well built C2 sedan, but also want to stay away from shady VAG A.S.S. It is never going to be a numbers game for the Tata, atleast in the near future.

They got to earn trust first, revenue follows
Undoubtedly, Tata is being more trusted nowadays. In fact many people who were critical about Tata in the past were leaving their fears aside and are taking the plunge. But that's where new problems are popping up for Tata, any issue if it ever arises, these people who trusted the brand and took the plunge will become more anxious than required which is not good for both customer & company. This becomes more prominent in case of first time car buyers. People who had had experiences with multiple brands will be more balanced without much anxiety.

People who want to stay away from VAG & Skoda A.S.S will checkout Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and Maruti before having a look at Tata.

An experience from my circle:

My friend who had two back to back sour experiences with Hyundai. First issue was with i10, the car got serious rust issues which he lately identified, neither Hyundai nor the dealership bothered to support him on this when questioned, he didn't want any headache of escalation and following up and so he sold off the car at a nominal price.

Despite all this, he trusted Hyundai again and bought a Grand i10, this time the product was good but the service and support left him with a sour taste. During the delivery of the car after a routine service, the dealership personnel(SA) crashed the car into a pole or something, again neither Hyundai nor the dealership bothered to help, they didn't budge. What my friend did? he applied for an insurance claim and proceeded with repairs, made the SA to pay the balance amount after insurance claim, and sold of the car at a decent price this time.

After all these experiences with Hyundai, he shifted to Maruti and bought S-Cross. Even at Nexa he had had few bad experiences, accessories were not fitted, and teflon coat was not done during the delivery as promised, he simply took the delivery, followed up after few days and got them done.

During all these instances, he didn't let those experiences take away his mental peace, he stayed calm and got the work done, and enjoyed the cars. Interestingly, whenever I suggested a Tata car to him, he doesn't even want to listen, but now he was considering Tiago as an additional city car.

Tata got to do a lot of extra work than its peers/competitors to gain trust.

Last edited by wheelguy : 30th January 2020 at 11:35. Reason: Added last line:)
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Old 30th January 2020, 13:24   #1667
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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During all these instances, he didn't let those experiences take away his mental peace, he stayed calm and got the work done, and enjoyed the cars.
You friend is indeed a "mahatma". Except for the case of rusting all others are issues of negligence(?) from companies. However Tata cannot afford that as of now since they are yet to "make" the image and not "break" like others.
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Old 30th January 2020, 13:46   #1668
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by rajivtelang View Post
You friend is indeed a "mahatma". Except for the case of rusting all others are issues of negligence(?) from companies. However Tata cannot afford that as of now since they are yet to "make" the image and not "break" like others.
He chose mental peace over anything else. Accident is done by the dealership's representative, if company and its dealer refuse to support in reparation, it is for sure is a bad attitude by the dealer and company. While the Maruti issue is not a big one. But what I am saying is if Tata had been in place of Hyundai in the above two instances, then attitude of most customers wont be the same as they were prefilled with apprehensions(fed by internet). Yes, Tata did not have that luxury as they are yet to make image.
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Old 30th January 2020, 15:49   #1669
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

I rushed in quickly for 15 mins into the TATA Dealership in Trivandrum as soon as I noticed an Altroz in smashing red inside the showroom. I had previously visited the showroom one or two months ago to checkout the Nexon and the SA still remembers me surprisingly.

Firstly, the paint job and the exteriors look so amazing! Like, it really really caught my attention and I really loved the rear treatment as well. Getting into the car was very easy and comfortable and the 90 degree opening doors did make a big difference for me. Up in the drivers seat, seating position seemed good and the most striking difference was the improvement in plastics and fit and finish compared to the old Nexon . The AC switches, glovebox, centre console buttons, steering and certain door pad bits were plasticky in the Nexon and the working action of those weren't reassuring and I remember posting somewhere in the Forum mentioning how superior was the Ecosport in this aspect. But the Altroz has really improved and in those 15 minutes, I couldn't nit pick much. I really loved the simplicity and functionality of the interiors. The rear seat base isn't long enough for my liking but still it sure is comfortable enough. There's good legroom, the flat floor is a boon and the cabin feels spacious as well. The boot is very usable and the closing action of all the doors were super good.

I'm back to Chennai so looking forward to take a test drive soon. As I'm slowly looking for an upgrade and being super confused whether to buy new or used, petrol or diesel, ICE or wait for an EV itself, hatchback or Compact SUVs, Altroz and the new Nexon are sure finding a considerable place in my list. I think the market is in a phase where there's a lot of transition and confusion taking place and maybe there are so many others who might face similar confusions and hence are delaying the purchase.

Anyways, hope the Altroz test drive goes well. Best wishes to TATA for more success and improved reputation in the coming years.
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Old 31st January 2020, 00:12   #1670
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Sorry, but this thing will not sell, nothing as far as engines are concerned nor the pricing that'll make it work. Resale, support, longevity of parts, nothing works for it.

Alas, after good 25+ years into the industry, Tata is trying to sell safety !! The very next day Anand Mahindra was out with xuv3OO claims and others shall follow.

Tata motors in their cars have no USP, Tiago, Nexon or be it anything, for what they launch, they ruin it over a period of time, be it by pricing or by deletion of features.

Nexon EV at 13.99, wait for others to kill the pricing on this one.

170 HP Harrier at the launch price would have brought volumes, but then again, what goes through the MoU is inexplicable.

The underlining part is, for whatever they launch, it shall not succeed, not since 1997, nor in the years to come.

Products are good, helps keep a few people employed but there is no marketing sense or understanding of the pulse to capture the market.

TML shall linger and linger, sad, extremely at that, but truth be accepted.
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Old 31st January 2020, 10:10   #1671
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Sorry, but this thing will not sell, nothing as far as engines are concerned nor the pricing that'll make it work. Resale, support, longevity of parts, nothing works for it.
So you're saying that Safety is not a USP? Are you aware that there are other manufacturers who skimp on safety for India specific cars? Do you also know that Tata Motors basically had the safest CSUV in the country for almost 3 years before the XUV300 rating finally came along? Almost all the cars sold by TML now have a good safety rating with the exception of the Harrier and Hexa as those are currently unknown. However, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that they too are safe.

Secondly, whatever they launch will not succeed? So the Nexon is a complete failure according to you? The Tiago did nothing as well?

Third, Nexon EV pricing is quite competitive for what it offers. As far as what is known, other manufacturers (Except MG and Hyundai, and those are far more expensive!) don't seem to have anything ready yet. Mahindra itself is still more than a year away from a launch.

Sorry for going off topic mods but honestly, enough of this nonsensical bashing. Either quote some data and evidence while making statements or don't bother.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 31st January 2020 at 14:27. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 31st January 2020, 10:48   #1672
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Sorry, but this thing will not sell, nothing as far as engines are concerned nor the pricing that'll make it work. Resale, support, longevity of parts, nothing works for it.

I guess these are just blanket statements. Yes, there was a period when Tata cars were not doing well and they did not have the best to offer compared to competition with their products and service.

But now, with Tiago, Nexon, Harrier, Nexon EV, Altroz Tata Motors has come a long way and their products are definitely on par with what competition is offering and customers are taking a note of it and buying as well. The numbers for Tiago and Nexon speak for themselves. Am sure Altroz will do well.

The Nexon EV is getting rare reviews as well. What makes you think it will not succeed?

Service might be a hit or miss.

Tata has raised the benchmark for Safety and others have to follow it now.

So its not good on our part to say that nothing will work for Tata Motors.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 31st January 2020 at 14:27. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 31st January 2020, 10:51   #1673
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner View Post
Sorry for going off topic mods but honestly, enough of this nonsensical bashing. Either quote some data and evidence while making statements or don't bother.
Gunner -

Data is not meant to fed on the platter, the monthly reports are there in place for your satiation. Let's move to business end of what each manufacturer is looking at, raking the moolah.

The point in case was, safety being offered is good but looking at the price hikes and feature deletion from TML, these products shall not succeed.

From Apr 16 to Dec 19, the Tiago has gone up by a whopping 1.4L Ex Showroom, I had bought the Hexa XE with HK and other features on 4th Aug 17 at 12.75 it retails at 16.8 today, Nexon Diesel has been jacked up a considerable amount.

You spoke about safest CSUV 3 years back, why on earth is it being called out today !!

Nexon, Tiago shall never ever the garner the numbers that Tata would have hoped for.

Shall look forward to your purchases from TML.
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Old 31st January 2020, 11:30   #1674
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
.

The point in case was, safety being offered is good but looking at the price hikes and feature deletion from TML, these products shall not succeed.


.
You don't honestly expect prices to remain stagnant over 3 years do you? Everyone in the industry has raised prices periodically, even Maruti has done so. I highly doubt the Baleno for example is still retailing at the same price that was offered in 2016.

To your point of manufacturers raking in moolah, todays news reports that TML has made a quarterly profit of some 1000 crores. Make of that what you will.

Btw, the safety aspect isn't being called out only today. It's been promoted during the past year, I don't know if you've seen it. I've seen some Nexons in the city having the 5 star stickers in the rear windshield area.

Nexon diesel price, yes I don't necessarily agree with it but consider that it has been upgraded to BS6 which isn't cheap as per reports given in the media.

And what reason are you giving for making the statement that the Nexon and Tiago will never give the numbers for TML? How do you know what they're hoping for? What makes you say so? I still haven't understood that.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 31st January 2020 at 14:29. Reason: Trimmed quote.
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Old 31st January 2020, 11:39   #1675
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Gunner -

Data is not meant to fed on the platter, the monthly reports are there in place for your satiation. Let's move to business end of what each manufacturer is looking at, raking the moolah.

Nexon, Tiago shall never ever the garner the numbers that Tata would have hoped for.

Shall look forward to your purchases from TML.
If any manufacturer is not on Number 1 position doesn't mean that the manufacture is failed one. Number 1 is just a number and only 1 can be there on each number. And if any manufacturer is Number 1 in sales doesn't mean that their products are always good. Tata is not on number 1 but they are genuinely following their ethics and trying their best to deliver safe, stylish, desirable cars to Indians. Unlike Maruti, who is just milking the customers by taking advantage of first mover in the market and delivering unsafe, boring looking, average cars. And the thing is Maruti knows this, still they want to milk the customers. Check the facts, Suzuki is nowhere in the developed markets around the world.

Your bashing on Tata Motors is completely baseless. If you cant say good words about Tata then at least dont spread false things about Tata cars (No USP, Non performers etc.)
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Old 31st January 2020, 11:50   #1676
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Sorry, but this thing will not sell, nothing as far as engines are concerned nor the pricing that'll make it work. Resale, support, longevity of parts, nothing works for it.
I don't agree with your prediction, certainly not for the reasons quoted. Like many have said earlier, this car has all the ingredients to be a blockbuster (By Tata standards, of course). The engine is alright, just what the market deserves and the petrol pricing is remarkably good. Remember, Nexon sales may not match that of Creta or Brezza, but it is still doing respectable numbers and the Harrier is already matching XUV 500 (all arguments about the age of the latter notwithstanding).

The market just needs more people with balls (also called enthusiasts) (or in other words people that don't mind compromising on few things to get a better car). I am not saying this just for Tata. This also holds true for the Fords and such.
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Old 31st January 2020, 12:13   #1677
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquedo View Post
Gunner -

Data is not meant to fed on the platter, the monthly reports are there in place for your satiation. Let's move to business end of what each manufacturer is looking at, raking the moolah.

The point in case was, safety being offered is good but looking at the price hikes and feature deletion from TML, these products shall not succeed.

From Apr 16 to Dec 19, the Tiago has gone up by a whopping 1.4L Ex Showroom, I had bought the Hexa XE with HK and other features on 4th Aug 17 at 12.75 it retails at 16.8 today, Nexon Diesel has been jacked up a considerable amount.

You spoke about safest CSUV 3 years back, why on earth is it being called out today !!

Nexon, Tiago shall never ever the garner the numbers that Tata would have hoped for.

Shall look forward to your purchases from TML.

The thing with TATA is, they have made very very attractive launch prices that undercut rivals and then when they slowly try to bring it upto the market standards, people crib over it. Just two examples if I may mention here:

(All prices ex-showroom from T-BHP official reviews and Carwale).

Tata Tiago Petrol XE launch price in 2016 was 3.20 lacs. You know how much the base Alto K10 costed then? 3.27 lacs. Do you feel Alto K10 is the right comparison for a car like Tiago? I don't think so. But we may end up judging just on the basis of launch prices I feel. I would have compared a Tiago to something like a Celerio rather. Even then, many wouldn't deny if I say the Tiago is a superior product in the way it drives and is built.

Coming to the Nexon, 2017 launch prices for the base Petrol and Diesel were 5.85 lacs and 6.85 lacs respectively. 2020 BS6 Prices are 6.95 and 8.45 respectively. Ecosport Facelift launched a few months later after the Nexon was unveiled and the prices were 7.67 and 8.27 respectively for Petrol and Diesel. In 2020, they are at 8.04 and 8.54 for Petrol and Diesel. Now the diesel variants are neck to neck where as in terms of petrol, Nexon still undercuts the Ecosport.

Tata Hexa XE in 2016 - 11.99. 2020 - 13.7
Toyota Innova Crysta G in 2016 - 13.84. 2020 - 16.14

Let us also look at the sales.

2017 Dec

Tiago 5242
Celerio 6161
Grand I10 - 12955
Nexon 4028
Ecosport 1733 (maybe due to the oncoming facelift but otherwise was between 4k to 5k)


2019 Dec

Tiago 4558
Celerio 5429
Grand i10 7598
Nexon 4350
Ecosport 1727


Doesn't seem like it has been an unreasonable increase to me by any means. And the sales of their new models are pretty stable unlike how it was with their previous generation models. Tata surely is going up in terms of their vehicle quality that I don't think they should still keep trying to attract buyers with their 'cheap' tag. Let them up their experience offered to the customers for sure. But I don't think anyone who wants to grow will want to stick to a tag that always associates them to be cheap. I own a Tata car alongside a Maruti and a Hyundai and might go ahead and purchase another Tata car as well because they do offer very good cars at the moment. The Altroz does seem to be a compelling package to me and am soon taking a test drive as well.

Cheers!


Note to MODS: Not at all trying to deviate from the topic but I did feel the need to bring some light into the discussions. If deemed unfit, you may remove the post.
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Old 31st January 2020, 13:06   #1678
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by tushky View Post
If any manufacturer is not on Number 1 position doesn't mean that the manufacture is failed one.
Completely agree with this.
Quote:
Unlike Maruti, who is just milking the customers by taking advantage of first mover in the market and delivering unsafe, boring looking, average cars.
Safety is a relative term. True, a Nexon is relatively safer than Vitara Brezza(5* vs 4*). Tiago/Tigor is realtively safer than the Ignis (4* vs 3*). But I don't think it means they're unsafe. If you classify cars purely based on ratings, you'll have to say Nexon is an unsafe car compared to XUV300. You can buy the 'safest' car available in the market and could still die if you drive it like a moron. And you can survive a crash even if you're driving the most 'unsafe' crash. Obviously you'll be better off in a car with better ratings if you're under similar conditions. There is no denying that. At the same time you've to remember that we live in a country where this product is available and are actually bought by people.

Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-seat-belt.jpg

Looks of a car are entirely subjective. You might find it boring. Somebody else might find it fine. Now these Suzuki cars have arguably the best engines (K12 and K10) in the segment, the best or at par with the best packaging (Baleno, S-Presso), best dealer/service network and a very good record on reliability. Not to mention competitive pricing. I don't think Maruti is commanding a 50% market share just because they got here first. I believe it's because they did and are continuing to do many things right.
Quote:
Check the facts, Suzuki is nowhere in the developed markets around the world.
I don't agree with that either. They're the third best selling manufacturer in Japan, just behind Honda and Toyota. They also have a healthy number in UK, considering the fact that their most expensive car is the Swift Sport, in a developed market.
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/japan/2018-japan/
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

Quote:
If you cant say good words about Tata then at least dont spread false things about Tata cars
Nobody should be spreading false news/data about any manufacturer for any reason.

Now coming to Altroz, I believe it's a capable product. As any other car, it has it's own strengths and weaknesses. I don't think there is any such thing as a 'perfect' car in any segment. It all depends on the requirements of the consumer and his set of priorities. And IMHO, Altroz does make a case for itself. I don't expect it to be the sales leader, but I don't think it'll be a dud either. Again, that's just my opinion.
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Old 31st January 2020, 13:12   #1679
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Tata Altroz AMT To Launch Soon
  • Select Tata dealers across the country have started accepting bookings for the Altroz AMT
  • The AMT gearbox will be offered with both petrol and diesel engines
  • Tata is also working on a dual-clutch automatic for the Altroz.
  • A turbocharged petrol engine is also in the works.
Source: https://www.cardekho.com/india-car-n...soon-24994.htm
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Old 31st January 2020, 13:25   #1680
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Default Re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

So Altroz is getting AMT as a makeshift arrangement before the DCT arrives, why Tata?
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