[dkaile]

Last I heard, even the Baleno was 3 star RATED (4 Star with the safety pack) by Euro NCAP. Don't know the situation with the Indian spec though.

https://youtu.be/A7URUAtWXEU

So calling the Baleno a tin can, can be going a little overboard though. Again the crucial word here is BALANCE.

Cheers...

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

I am seriously looking at HBX and holding off my purchase of next vehicle for few months. But when I see numbers like 2000, 1500, 2500 etc, it breaks my heart and puts HBX on question mark.

May I ask why the sales figure are important to you for buying a car?

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Whoever is thinking that India is now in the leagues of developed countries (where people always think of nature, polution, safety etc) is living in a fools' paradise. You are listening more to the new political gua-guaism than looking at the facts of more than 100 crores common people. There is a small percentage of people here who can afford the McDonald's life all day, but others are still in the stage where they have to check frequently whether their income meets expenses. For them, the main recurring expenses of a motor vehicle ownership - fuel economy and spare / service costs - is a big thing. You try to sell them 5 star hotel experience or 5 star safety rating, and need to come back empty handed.

This is a special part of the world. Politicians roar about its development, and people cry about the lack of it.

With all due respect, this is a melodramatic rant meant for another thread. 5000 people is 0.0003% of the population, which can afford McDonald's life all day with Baskin Robbins for dessert.

Originally Posted by dkaile

The crucial word there was 'BALANCE'! As someone pointed out, we need to live in the real world. In India we can't go overboard with just the safety aspect without considering the mix and most importantly the overall value the product delivers. We are still some years away when safety will be the choosing factor even for the elite, but for us masses, it's still a few decades away.

Pardon me Sir, but if I've to equate the word 'BALANCE' that you've mentioned in 'Desi' terms then, in my dictionary it means "Chalta Hai".

Your statements might not go well with the small but a growing number of people who are willing to pay extra for a 5* safety rating. Maruti cars are brilliant VFM, no doubts about it. Heck, I would buy one over an Altroz even if it offers 4* safety instead of 5. But the question is, being an informed buyer myself, should I buy one when the company plainly refuses to crash test it's cars with a verbal statement that it adheres to the Indian safety norms? This makes me ponder about the very ethics of the company.

If a verbal statement about the safety rating of the cars from India's biggest manufacturer is enough to make millions of people buy the cars then I'll say Tata are fools to go the GNCAP route and waste millions which instead could've been spent on developing new colors, racier graphics, a Bose music system, better alloys and a 10inch infotainment system!

[rajivtelang]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Last I heard, even the Baleno was 3 star RATED (4 Star with the safety pack) by Euro NCAP. Don't know the situation with the Indian spec though.

So calling the Baleno a tin can, can be going a little overboard though. Again the crucial word here is BALANCE.

Cheers...

We need data on our Baleno and not the one in Europe. That way the Swift too scores nice stars with non indian editions. Indian editions are not reaching beyond 2 stars. We should consider that point before buying not get impressed/fooled by some crash test data somewhere with a totally different car. And here I go with Tata and their cars.

Originally Posted by Porschefire

Pardon me Sir, but if I've to equate the word 'BALANCE' that you've mentioned in 'Desi' terms then, in my dictionary it means "Chalta Hai".

Your statements might not go well with the small but a growing number of people who are willing to pay extra for a 5* safety rating. Maruti cars are brilliant VFM, no doubts about it. Heck, I would buy one over an Altroz even if it offers 4* safety instead of 5. But the question is, being an informed buyer myself, should I buy one when the company plainly refuses to crash test it's cars with a verbal statement that it adheres to the Indian safety norms? This makes me ponder about the very ethics of the company.

Agree with you totally. There is no pride in buying a car with heartect platform which is not planned to get crash tested. And what are Indian safety norms when they are not tested? Air bags, ABS, EBD are for life saving but will they really save or not needs to be verified and hence a crash test is a MUST.

Our lives definitely have more "value" than the "value" for money which Maruti offers, I believe

[hserus]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

I realized that this car, celerio is nothing but chair with wheels tied to them. No safety!

Around, 1,30,000Kms went to Maruti and gave back for exchange on Wagon R Zxi AMT with top trim and top safely and everything. (7.75 Lakhs on road).

Now, I drive Innova, and still looking for a second car both city drives and sometimes on highway. HBx is my choice. But when tata products, good in safety end up selling like 2K 3K etc,

Wagon R top end is a 2 airbags ABS/EBD model. Innova is fine - 3-7 airbags, ABS EBD Hill Assist VSC etc.

Why should HBX not be your choice, when it is a massive improvement over whatever minimal safety features the Wagon R gives you? If you want a truly safe small car you can always go for the Mahindra XUV 3oo which isn't that hot a seller either. Or your choice of Fords / Volkswagens.

Your choice, if you want a good car that has an adequate number of security features then you'll inevitably end up with a lesser selling model because people will still pay for more chrome and higher fuel economy rather than safety.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by pogo0120

Tin cans (wagon R) with 2 safety ratings end up selling 18K+ units, while 5 STAR RATED, COMPETITIVELY priced, VERY GOOD looking car ends up selling 2K+ units. I am at loss here.

The Wagon R isn't a direct rival to the Altroz but on the general point that unsafe tin cans sell more than safe well-built cars, let those people who are either uninformed or don't care about safety buy what they like. You should put your needs above following the herd blindly.

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by volkman10

TATA Altroz loses its momentum, lost in the crowd! Closest competition is Toyota Glanza

Feb-20 sales:
..
Source: Auto Punditz

No surprises there! This is exactly ‘that’ 10% thing which TATA messes up.
I won’t be surprised if the Glanza overtakes Altroz in coming months.
We had also seen a similar hike in the Harrier sales for the initial 2-3 months of the release; but rest is history as we all know. I seriously hope that TATA considers this as an alarm before the new i20 hits the market & come up with a better petrol engine mated to a good auto-box in their Altroz.

[SaiSW]

Originally Posted by dkaile

You may criticise the Baleno/Maruti as much as you want, but it is one gem of a daily driver. The best part is the engine, frugal, zero maintenance, sufficient power for our roads. That Maruti has got its balance of power, economy and safety right, for the Indian context, is the main reason for it's success.

Cheers...

I don't mean to go offtopic, but Maruti is the absolute last thing that comes to my mind when I think of safety, after things like walking and public transportation.

In my opinion, safety is not among the balance factors you mentioned, but service quality, reliability, ease of use is true.

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by SaiSW

I don't mean to go offtopic, but Maruti is the absolute last thing that comes to my mind when I think of safety, after things like walking and public transportation.

In my opinion, safety is not among the balance factors you mentioned, but service quality, reliability, ease of use is true.

You are correct. Even when I was comparing the Ignis which is rated 3 stars and the Tiago which is a 4 star rated car the difference in metal was pretty telling.

But safety is one aspect, and the Ignis was better in almost everything else like engine performance, reliability, ease of use etc. But yes I was aware that the car I was buying was not as safe as the Tata Tiago so on highways I don't exceed 100 kph cause I honestly don't know if ill survive an accident at high speed in the Ignis.

[niteshbids]

Originally Posted by dkaile

Last I heard, even the Baleno was 3 star RATED (4 Star with the safety pack) by Euro NCAP. Don't know the situation with the Indian spec though.


So calling the Baleno a tin can, can be going a little overboard though. Again the crucial word here is BALANCE.

Cheers...

The European Baleno rated 3 stars has a load of extra airbags as compared to the Indian counterparts. While the ones at our shores come with only 2 front airbags, the European versions come with side head and side chest airbags.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/suzuki/baleno/24497

[tarik.arora]

Originally Posted by bf1983

But safety is one aspect, and the Ignis was better in almost everything else like engine performance, reliability, ease of use etc

A bit
This correctly summarises a typical buyer's mind set. 95% people buy cars with this mindset. Don't get me wrong, i am not against this approach. I am a firm believer of safety, but i also feel that safety is just 1 aspect and you cannot expect it to be the sole criteria for each and everyone. It is good that players like Tata are putting emphasis on safety but customers are looking for a complete package which includes performance, reliability, after sales experience, resale value and what not.

P.S.: Before the safety conscious bash me, i am a Tata Nexon owner

[rajivtelang]

Originally Posted by bf1983

But safety is one aspect, and the Ignis was better in almost everything else like engine performance, reliability, ease of use etc. But yes I was aware that the car I was buying was not as safe as the Tata Tiago so on highways I don't exceed 100 kph cause I honestly don't know if ill survive an accident at high speed in the Ignis.

That doubt of "If I'll survive" is something of a concern. I know exceeding 100 kph is absolutely bad idea in India wherein the speed limit is somewhere 80-90kph. But I have hardly heard similar concern from any non Maruti/Hyundai owners. The confidence you get in Desi/German cars is amazing.
Maruti: I have started hating them recently but need to admire their network, reliability and jack of all trades car nature. They do the job and that's where they win the race with Indian mentality. However now a days their service quality is going down and they cannot handle the bulk of load. And to add to it their service cost is NOT AT ALL CHEAP.
Agree that TATA needs to improve on n number of things to survive/make an impact but it is us who should support them to improve.

Originally Posted by tarik.arora

P.S.: Before the safety conscious bash me, i am a Tata Nexon owner

Yeah sure, I am a recent Tiago owner

[vishchan]

Originally Posted by rajivtelang

That doubt of "If I'll survive" is something of a concern. I know exceeding 100 kph is absolutely bad idea in India wherein the speed limit is somewhere 80-90kph. But I have hardly heard similar concern from any non Maruti/Hyundai owners. The confidence you get in Desi/German cars is amazing.

Back in 2012 when I was looking for a car, the toss up was between Swift Diesel and Figo Diesel. Swift Zdi had ABS/Airbags but was 1.2L costlier than Figo Titanium, which missed features like rear power windows, ACC. Everyone in family thought 1.2L was not worth for couple of nice to have features.
Swift VDi which was without Airbags/ABS costed around same price as Figo Titanium.

While discussing with family, one point that sealed it in favour of Figo was a statement by my father "I hope we won't need Airbags, but when the situation comes Airbags will save our lives" After that it no brainer, we went ahead and chose Figo.

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by volkman10

TATA Altroz loses its momentum, lost in the crowd! Closest competition is Toyota Glanza

Feb-20 sales:

Attachment 1976396


Source: Auto Punditz

Please don't read too much into the numbers now. Supply chains are heavily messed up due to Corona plus Tata is not sending out any diesel Altroz's waiting for BS6 fuel. Given the circumstances, I'd say 2.8k is a pretty good number.

Originally Posted by damodar

Tata qoutes retail numbers whereas for Toyota they are wholesale dispatch numbers.

I've seen this being mentioned various times on the forum. Where has Tata confirmed that they are publishing retail numbers ? They were pushing for the the industry to report retail numbers as it shows actual market consumption, but they have not started doing this IIRC. These are still dealer dispatches.

The Altroz was launched on Jan 22 and deliveries started on Jan 24, so there is no way they 'retailed' 4500 cars in 5-6 days !

[bf1983]

Originally Posted by rajivtelang

That doubt of "If I'll survive" is something of a concern. I know exceeding 100 kph is absolutely bad idea in India wherein the speed limit is somewhere 80-90kph. But I have hardly heard similar concern from any non Maruti/Hyundai owners. The confidence you get in Desi/German cars is amazing.

Yes in my dads Freestyle I feel extremely confident even at 140 kph.

Regarding the speed limit of 100 kph is all about people's comfort levels. I find the tyres don't have the best grip at high speeds so unless I get better rubber I don't wish to push the car. My uncle has an Ignis and he regularly goes at 140-150 kph on the expressway though he has better tyres.

That's one thing Maurti really has an advantage over the competition and that is extremely refined petrol engines be it the 800 cc, 1.0 litre and 1.2l engines. The 1.5l is somehow not that great IMO.

Tata really needs to get some better petrol engines. If the Altroz has a 4 cylinder engine I am sure it will start doing better numbers.

My friend chose a Baleno over the Altroz only because he liked the Baleno engine more. He loved the features, build quality, looks and even the suspension of the Altroz but he didn't like the engines performance. I told him multiple times to choose anything else but a tin can like a Baleno but he told me flatly that he wants a car to drive and the Baleno was a much better car to drive in the city. :(

[chiranjitp]

Altroz 1.2 TD report

Yesterday went to check out the Altroz & also took a longish TD. I went there in my 2006 Swift 1.3 ZXi, so direct comparison will be with that car. Among cars from that segment, we have an i20 in our family & a Baleno in my friend circle. My cousin (cum neighbor) owns a 2016 Tiago XT petrol & I get to regularly drive that car.

Showroom Review

The last time I visited a TATA showroom (properly) was in 2011/12 when we bought our Punto. First impression was good, we were quickly attended by a SA who seemed knowledgeable. Next up was the TD experience, I took a longish TD & never once did the SA complain. One more thing was the fuel level in the TD vehicle, it was almost full. Most TD vehicles I have driven over the years had the low fuel indicator on. Worst was the Punto TD, we had to fill Rs. 300 worth of diesel before driving the car .

Even the variants & on road prices of each variant were explained properly. It seems at-least in sales department, TATA motors has improved.

Exterior

The showroom demo vehicle & the TD vehicle were both in the Golden colour. My god, she looks absolutely stunning in that colour. After many years a hatchback has impressed me so much in the looks department. My Mom (who was with me) was also impressed with the looks, she normally doesn't get impressed easily, the last small car that my Mom found good looking was the Punto in Red. The low slung stance, steeply raked windshield, all of these make the Altroz a looker. Top variant gets projector headlamps, the rest of the variants get dual barrel headlight setup.

Interior

First thing that caught my attention was the solid thud on closing the doors, the thud is very reassuring & similar to some well built European cars. Ingress & Egress is very easy, owing to the 90 degree opening doors. The front seats are very supportive & are sufficiently big in size, though somehow the front seats on my Swift felt a bit bigger/better. The rear is sufficiently wide & has good legroom, siting 3 people over short journeys shouldn't be an issue. Seat width is actually better than our Ecosport. Baleno might have a slight advantage in outright legrooom, but the rear seat in Baleno is very flat with no contours. Hyundai i20s rear seat is also good, only slight issue is that it's placed a bit too low for the elderly.

Next up is the dashboard with different color/shape textures along with a floating screen. The dashboard design looks quite contemporary & modern. The dashboard is long as well & I really love long dashboards. Only thing is that they could have given a slightly bigger screen for the HU. The Harman based HU sounds awesome, bass is good along with clarity. The sliding armrest works perfectly, even for shorter people. Most cars are equipped with fixed armrest, I have always found them useless for my driving position (I am 5'8" tall & like to pull my seat forward).

The Drive

First up the ergonomics felt good, everything fell in hand. The clutch was light & had a short travel, similar to the Tiago. The gearshift on the Altroz is better than the Tiago, almost Maruti Baleno/Swift like smooth. No vibrations as well on the gear knob, Tiago's gear knob keeps on vibrating.

Next up the engine, initial low down torque is good, gearing is also not very tall. City driveability is good, even engine noise at low RPMs is very well controlled. Things start getting bad once you put your foot down, outright acceleration is decent enough, but the issue is how the power is delivered. Under hard acceleration (especially in low gears) the engine sounds really bad, even my Swift with the old 1.3 G series engine (which was designed in the 90s) sounds & feels better the Altroz's engine under hard acceleration. There is simply no comparison with the silky smooth units of the Hyundai i20 & Maruti Baleno. The engine for me is the biggest weak-link of the Altroz.

The ride on the low profile 16 inch tires was very good, even on broken loads. I didn't get a change to take her to triple digit speeds, so can't tell how she will feel on the highway. I have a feeling though that ride quality will be good at highway speeds as well.

I took her to a hill top during the TD & the body roll on the curves was very controlled, I was pleasantly surprised here. The car was fun to drive on these roads. Even the EPS unit on the Altroz is direct & has decent enough feel.

Visibility through the steeply raked windshield is a slight issue, the A-pillars weren't much of an issue to me as I am used to the trunk like A-pillars in our (ex) Punto & Ecosport.

Safety

The best thing about the Altroz is the 5 star GNCAP rating, along with a stable structure. Given the number of road accidents in our country, it's a very good thing to be in a safe car. Kudos to TATA for providing a 5 star rated car in this price range .

Verdict

I went to check the Altroz as a potential replacement for my 06 Swift. After the TD, I came back home with mixed feelings. The Altroz is indeed a brilliant & well designed product. Looks stunning & is very well built, I was very impressed with the Punto like thud while closing the doors. The only issue was the engine, it seems out of place in the Altroz. It is neither refined nor fast, even my age old 1.3 G series engine feels better.

Somehow the front seats felt a bit better in my Swift (Gen 1 Swift did have awesome front seats) & front visibility is better in the Swift. So, for now the Swift stays. Fingers crossed that TATA will bring out the 1.2 turbo petrol soon, that should take care of the weak engine. Though if I were forced to replace my Swift today, I would go with Altroz despite the shortcomings.

Here is the price list for Guwahati: