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Old 5th December 2019, 07:49   #1066
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post

The beautiful lines and gorgeous exteriors, do not deserve that mediocre NA 3 Cylinder. How did the Turbo go missing?
Could there be JTP & JTP-D in the future?

Last edited by Sheel : 5th December 2019 at 10:51. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Thanks.
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Old 5th December 2019, 08:52   #1067
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

If they have a JTP in mind (I hope they have), they should have showed it off (at least the display model) at this event. It would have created some buzz among the enthusiastic.
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Old 5th December 2019, 09:35   #1068
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aditya79india View Post
Could there be JTP & JTP-D in the future?
If it is a severely detuned turbo diesel and is priced reasonably, tuners and remappers are going to have a field day.
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Old 5th December 2019, 10:27   #1069
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post

2. The 1.5 Turbo Diesel appears to have been severely de-tuned, as compared to Nexon.
What was need for such a massive reduction of power & torque (20PS & 60NM!)
But isn't that better than them putting the engine as it is and then the end result is an overpriced car that gets ignored?

My logic is, they'll offer detuned diesel for reasonable price and tuners will have a field day tinkering with the engine.
The rest of the components most probably are still designed to work with the original power ratings or whatever the Nexon engines threshold is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
Agree with you totally. Even the petrol model offers only 85 bhp and 113 nm of torque which is quite disappointing frankly. It should been atleast 110 bhp with 150 nm of torque.
Guys, aren't we being a little unfair here? It's not like the criticism of the NA 1.2 in the Tiago was silent, they surely must've heard of it.

Especially when the segment is highly biased towards petrols, they must've done something on it, atleast improved the bottom end and do something to iron out those nasty vibrations.

Let's atleast wait until the reviews come out for the petrol ( Dec 9 ) before we go out on the streets with the pitchforks.

Last edited by SaiSW : 5th December 2019 at 10:45.
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Old 5th December 2019, 10:47   #1070
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
That 260NM of torque would have made this car a hoot to drive!
Freestyle / Figo Diesel with 200NM of torque is a hoot to drive ! 260NM is a bit too much for a hatchback may be ? Considering the weight and high City/ Traffic usage
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Old 5th December 2019, 10:55   #1071
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Freestyle / Figo Diesel with 200NM of torque is a hoot to drive ! 260NM is a bit too much for a hatchback may be ? Considering the weight and high City/ Traffic usage
Also let's remember that the peak torque of 200NM kicks in right from 1250 RPM on the Altroz. I mean, wouldn't that make for very minimal lag and excellent drivability? What really is the problem here?

I agree, though 260NM will look good on paper, it may be a bit of an overkill.
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Old 5th December 2019, 11:40   #1072
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
Agree with you totally. Even the petrol model offers only 85 bhp and 113 nm of torque which is quite disappointing frankly. It should been atleast 110 bhp with 150 nm of torque.
I'm sorry but how is that disappointing? The Baleno and i20 offer similar performance in their petrol engines. I don't see anyone having issues with that. If TML does the same thing, the engine is disappointing? I'd agree if you said something about refinement since it's 3 cylinder v 4 cylinder but otherwise?

If they did put that much power in, then TML would have to charge something close to Polo GT money, which they cannot do.
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Old 5th December 2019, 11:40   #1073
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8r View Post
Freestyle / Figo Diesel with 200NM of torque is a hoot to drive ! 260NM is a bit too much for a hatchback may be ? Considering the weight and high City/ Traffic usage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrrb0 View Post
Also let's remember that the peak torque of 200NM kicks in right from 1250 RPM on the Altroz. I mean, wouldn't that make for very minimal lag and excellent drivability? What really is the problem here?

I agree, though 260NM will look good on paper, it may be a bit of an overkill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
But isn't that better than them putting the engine as it is and then the end result is an overpriced car that gets ignored?

My logic is, they'll offer detuned diesel for reasonable price and tuners will have a field day tinkering with the engine.
The rest of the components most probably are still designed to work with the original power ratings or whatever the Nexon engines threshold is.

Friends,
That 110HP & 260NM on paper would have been a key selling point.
"Segment Leading Torque & Power" - Doesn't that sound great!

Penny wise, I seriously do not think Tata would have saved a great deal of money by detuning it.

Coming to the torque figure of 260NM, the Hyundai Verna, Polo TDI have similar torque figures in more or less similar weight.
Do they feel overwhelmed? Nope.

Cars with minimal turbo-lag and good drive-ability are appreciated no doubt. But, does the Nexon/Verna/Polo etc with it's 260NM torque have any driveability problem? Nope.
It is very much possible to balance driveability and punch, as demonstrated by other manufacturers.

Coming to the JTP scheme, I am not sure why a manufacturer would detune their own engine, and hire a third party to sell the 'original' engine with some badges stuck to the backside.
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Old 5th December 2019, 11:54   #1074
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Penny wise, I seriously do not think Tata would have saved a great deal of money by detuning it.

Cars with minimal turbo-lag and good drive-ability are appreciated no doubt. But, does the Nexon/Verna/Polo etc with it's 260NM torque have any driveability problem? Nope.
I don't think this is done to pinch pennies. It may be to differentiate the Nexon from the Altroz, and they don't want the Altroz to cannibalise the Nexon.

Also, I don't think the aam junta is really bothered by torque figures all that much. IMO what they care about is FE, top speed, BHP and the feature list. Mind you I'm talking about the average car buying public and not folks like us, because even for us the peak torque figure doesn't matter as much as the torque to weight ratio, how low down the rev range usable torque is produced, and in gear acceleration numbers.

Not sure, but I remember the polo having some amount of lag before the boost kicked in. I don't think you understand how low 1250RPM is to be producing peak torque from.

Cheers

Last edited by Turrrb0 : 5th December 2019 at 11:59.
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Old 5th December 2019, 12:29   #1075
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

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Originally Posted by PraNeel View Post
Sorry, but I waited too long to make this comment
A sad day for Indian design!
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Old 5th December 2019, 13:07   #1076
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
I know it has been beaten to death, but I just could stop myself from commenting that:

What was need for such a massive reduction of power & torque (20PS & 60NM!)
That 260NM of torque would have made this car a hoot to drive!
Max torque doesn't mean the car is a hoot to drive.

My real life experience, my Storme with 400 Nm torque has more lag than the 260 Nm Rapid. As many others have mentioned here, it's about the torque curve.

200 Nm is more than enough for this segment. And that 200Nm getting in as early as 1250 rpm is excellent.

Last edited by PrasannaDhana : 5th December 2019 at 13:13.
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Old 5th December 2019, 13:08   #1077
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

From what I have seen so far, the car looks smashing, both in and out. The rear is particularly striking and I can see this will be an instant hit with the masses. And going by what we saw in Nexon, most people will find the interior attractive.

I don't want to comment on the features as we don't yet have the context called pricing and I wouldn't read too much into Tata claiming the vehicle to be premium, especially if they plan to undercut the rivals. Just going by the looks alone, this is the best looking car in the segment IMO.

But if I were in the market (but I am not) I will be disappointed that automatic is not available. Hopefully they still have plans in near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shobhit.shri View Post
Sorry, but I waited too long to make this comment
A sad day for Indian design!
You do realize that that particular image is not from the Altroz, do you?
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Old 5th December 2019, 13:44   #1078
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

The exterior and interior design of Altroz is growing on me, I am actually liking it. The exterior is sharp and edgy, giving a sporty look. The interior, though appearing bland in pictures, look nice in videos. Hopefully in person experience will be equal or better. The interior design is very clean, uncluttered and understated.

The feature list is decent if not exceptional. Yes some more would have been welcome to make an immediate impact in this hotly contested segment.

Now its upto the price and driving experience to decide whether Altroz will sell well or not. Most tata cars begin with slow volume to start with but eventually stabilize with decent numbers in long run. Think the same will apply to Altroz as well.
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Old 5th December 2019, 15:30   #1079
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Noticed that people started bashing the car when Altroz engine options are out. Especially petrol. Why so? Two reasons:

1. BHPians comparing Altroz's engine with Tiago's mediocre engine.
2. BHPians expected higher tune for Petrol.

Segment leaders got following engine option:

Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-altroz_comp.jpg

Is Altroz really lagging them considering i20 and Jazz got similar kerb weight? Of course behind Beleno(I don't think any other manufacturer will be able to attain kerb weight of 860 for a premium car and we don't want it to be in that fashion). If we notice 113nm torque is available at 3300RPM. Isn't it considerably good comparing to others? As per John O'Connor, VP for ALPHA ARC platform, Altroz will be having good drivability because of low end torque. So, at least in papers, engine option does looks good. We can reserve our comments about driving dynamics and performance till test drive reports are out from Team-BHP or from any other reliable sources.

After watching their media drive presentation, what I understood is that TM concentrated more on the practicality of the car rather than the bling. Talking about boot space, 90degree opening doors, ingress egress, flat rear bottom etc gives that impression. Does bling matters? Hell yes! It sells like hot cake! Indians are more inclined to show off.

I noticed some people mentioning Altroz front resembles Indica. In my eyes, the front curves got remote similarities with new City.


Name:  Altroz_front.JPG
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Size:  18.5 KB

Someone is even ready to joke "A sad day for Indian design!" Just because it is Tata.



As everyone know, new i20 is in pipeline and definitely will have more blings than anyone else. Don't you think Tata will be aware of this? If they add all the blings at one go, then it will be hard to keep the price in check as this one is having BS6 engine(especially the diesel). Then people will start complaining Tata has gone greed.



Yes, they did made mistake by not introducing Automatics at launch. For me it do looks like decent package. Will reserve other comments till I test drive it.

Last edited by K_Drive : 5th December 2019 at 15:32.
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Old 5th December 2019, 15:55   #1080
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Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

We (Cartoq) are driving the diesel today. So its the red one!
Attached Thumbnails
Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-img_20191205_15445001.jpeg  

Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-img_20191205_13514601.jpeg  

Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-img_20191205_13515201.jpeg  

Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.-img_20191205_13520701.jpeg  

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