Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th January 2020, 12:49   #1351
Senior - BHPian
 
wheelguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: City of Destiny
Posts: 1,364
Thanked: 6,681 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Another promotional video wherein Google integration is highlighted:

wheelguy is online now   (5) Thanks
Old 8th January 2020, 13:08   #1352
Distinguished - BHPian
 
RavenAvi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Flying Around
Posts: 6,293
Thanked: 40,364 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Received on WhatsApp.

Name:  serv.jpg
Views: 3750
Size:  41.8 KB

Last one is Engine Coating.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 8th January 2020 at 13:09. Reason: added last line.
RavenAvi is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 8th January 2020, 13:32   #1353
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,480
Thanked: 9,884 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Received on WhatsApp.
Identical deals are being offered on the Nexon as well by dealerships right now as I learnt from the TNT group (that I'm a member of). What surprises me are the rates for the ceramic coats.
Good quality ceramic coats for complete cars at renowned joints have been available at at least double the price than whats on offer. I wonder if the actual coat and quality is on par. If yes, these are absolutely worthy prices I have to say. (I purchased a white car, so a ceramic coat hardly makes a good business case for me & haven't tried myself. )
Reinhard is online now   (3) Thanks
Old 8th January 2020, 20:14   #1354
Distinguished - BHPian
 
neil.jericho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cochin
Posts: 2,027
Thanked: 5,637 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
PS : A very polite request to the detectives on t-bhp. Please dont start dissecting on some of these design elements / panel gaps / irregularities etc before you see the car or even after that. Its a TATA - you'll not have BMW levels of finesse and design quality / consistency. Please appreciate if the car fits your requirements or even makes you smile. Please dont go after 3-4 silly issues (like 'you could put your middle finger between the closed doors' etc etc) which you'll never bother about (in a Maruti) and post 100 pictures on the same piece in back to back posts and contribute to the murder of the product & brand. If every bl**dy guy shuts shop due to flops, we'll be left with tinny Maruti cars and nothing else.
What if the Altroz doesnt meet the fit and finish quality of the Hyundai i20 and Honda Jazz and Suzuki Baleno and Ford Ecosport and Hyundai Venue? Surely we should call a spade a spade, right?

The first lots of the Harrier had dismal quality control and Tata paid the price for their haste. The current batches though look and feel like world class products. I do hope that Tata has learnt from their Harrier mistake and the Altroz is well built from day 1. I really am rooting for the Altroz but that doesnt mean that I will turn a blind eye towards a poorly built product.
neil.jericho is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 8th January 2020, 23:18   #1355
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 415
Thanked: 175 Times
Default

It will be an uphill task pushing the Altroz . Apart from the design, there's really nothing going for it. No game changing engines , features or even space on offer. I always thought the main reason for Tigor's slow sales was lack of rear seat space, and this follows the same pattern. Also Tata probably needs to do a Nexa for their new hotshot cars to improve the sales and service experience. The icing will be a buyback offer like MG which puts to rest all doubts around resale which exists for Tata cars today
JishD is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th January 2020, 23:31   #1356
BHPian
 
TROOPER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: BOM<->IXE
Posts: 277
Thanked: 1,968 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JishD View Post
It will be an uphill task pushing the Altroz . Apart from the design, there's really nothing going for it. No game changing engines , features or even space on offer....
Nothing going for the Altroz you say?

I have said couple of times earlier that Tata should play to their strengths.

So here's what they should do if what I say is legal.

Do a head on crash of the Altroz and every car in the segment (all base variants) at 64 kmph. Now place each set of these cars in their showrooms. If legal doesn't allow, then keep the remaining brands outside the showroom, without the badges. Would be a pretty cheap exercise than doing a Nexa level upgrade considering how cash strapped Tata is right now.

Last edited by TROOPER : 8th January 2020 at 23:33.
TROOPER is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 00:04   #1357
Distinguished - BHPian
 
swiftnfurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 6,882
Thanked: 8,347 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
What if the Altroz doesnt meet the fit and finish quality of the Hyundai i20 and Honda Jazz and Suzuki Baleno and Ford Ecosport and Hyundai Venue? Surely we should call a spade a spade, right?

The first lots of the Harrier had dismal quality control and Tata paid the price for their haste. The current batches though look and feel like world class products. I do hope that Tata has learnt from their Harrier mistake and the Altroz is well built from day 1. I really am rooting for the Altroz but that doesnt mean that I will turn a blind eye towards a poorly built product.
Genuine issues which hamper an ownership experience should be called out - always on that side. All I am saying is none has to be enthusiastic about reporting silly stuffs. If TATA can't match the quality of Hyundai, I have no qualms - they are way too ahead. Atleast the later products (starting) from Zest are miles ahead of Maruti quality and I believe TATA to carry on that (interior quality) in Altroz as well. Going by the latest gen City quality, if TATA couldnt meet atleast that much, they dont deserve to sell either.
My point was more on panel gaps, minor alignment issues and such things being picked up in a more active manner. Maruti etc have a fair share of panel gaps inspite having much more manufacturing experience and expertise than TATA, so why show it as a big issue in TATA products!


PS: Once I traveled in a Bolt cab and had to ask the driver whether it was a diesel to which he responded positive. There was ZERO noise in the cabin + not a single rattle. After that, the Harrier driving experience was nothing short of a huge disappointment with the high diesel drone in the cabin and lacklustre power delivery etc. So yeah, TATA screwed up the 'premium' experience royally and it was rightfully bashed.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 9th January 2020 at 00:11.
swiftnfurious is offline   (15) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 00:12   #1358
Team-BHP Support
 
Chetan_Rao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,375
Thanked: 10,801 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

People love electronic gizmos, sure, but how much of a deal-breaker is not having automation on a switch (IRVM dimming) that one would flip max once a day?

Where Tata do need work is the motors, more the NVH than performance. Humor me a second.

The only capable small NA petrol motor in the premium hatch segment is the Suzuki K12, and part of the performance comes from the weight reduction on the cars it's used on. Hyundai's 1.2 Kappa is nothing to write home about performance-wise on the i20, and the Honda 1.2 iVTEC is OK on the Jazz, so Tata's motor makes comparably decent numbers to satisfy common Joe Public, while losing out on refinement to the 4-pot competition.

You'd ask why not the 1.2 Turbo? It's great to drive, but refined it ain't at present, even in the Nexon (I'd disregard the JTP implementation because that car's entire philosophy is anathema to NVH). Hyundai's 1.0L T-GDi is gearing up to compete in the small turbo petrol space too, so Tata need to move quick if they do have a turbo petrol variant in the works, as claimed at launch.

On the Diesel front, Hyundai's 1.4L CRDi is great, and so is Tata's 1.5 RevoTorq. They could easily give it more power with a tweaked map. Suzuki are moving out of small diesels with the retiring 1.3 DDiS, unless they do a sudden 180 and plonk the excellent 1.5L in their hatchbacks, and Honda's 1.5 iDTEC is great but not comparable on NVH.

All in all, Altroz is a nearly-there product with a lot going for it. If Tata can just refine the engines while providing decent low & mid-range, it would round off a very capable offering rather nicely. Most of the target audience will buy it primarily for that, not necessarily top end performance or 0-100 numbers.

Customer experience is another huge factor, but that horse has been flogged to death enough that it's just roadkill at this point, so I wouldn't belabor that argument again.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 9th January 2020 at 00:18.
Chetan_Rao is offline   (23) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 12:36   #1359
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 255
Thanked: 467 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

I think Altroz has so much going for it, Tata should bring 1.5 diesel + 5/6 speed torque converter AT variant (even in the Nexon) even if it will push the price higher. This will make altroz probably the best in segment hatchback for which people wont mind paying price close to that of Polo GT Tsi and this will also make Tata a quality car manufacturer in the minds of typical indian car buyers.
46TheDoctor is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 14:00   #1360
Senior - BHPian
 
Latheesh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Kannur
Posts: 3,554
Thanked: 5,497 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
What if the Altroz doesnt meet the fit and finish quality of the Hyundai i20 and Honda Jazz and Suzuki Baleno and Ford Ecosport and Hyundai Venue? Surely we should call a spade a spade, right?
We cannot benchmark Jazz and Baleno for quality, fit, and finish. They have their share of issues if you check closely. Altroz belongs to the same segment and I expect fit and finish to be a notch below Hyundai/VW.
Latheesh is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 14:05   #1361
BHPian
 
SaiSW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Good Blue Earth
Posts: 365
Thanked: 852 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
so Tata's motor makes comparably decent numbers to satisfy common Joe Public, while losing out on refinement to the 4-pot competition.
Tbh, i think there's only so much they can do with a 3 cylinder motor. Yes, there are more refined 3 pots in the market but i wonder what happened to the 4 cylinder petrol from the zest. That would have been fine for the altroz.
I'd anyday pick a 4 cylinder over a stressed, unrefined ( relatively ), low displacement 3 cylinder turbo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
Even the digital car MG Hector doesn't get one. I don't think its a factor a buyer will use to reject a car. If Tata keeps the basics right, the Altroz will sell, especially the Diesel.
No, i didn't mean that as a deal-breaker, but altroz is otherwise a well equipped car, it would've made the package complete, imo.
Leave the hector, iirc, even the 40 lacs fortuner doesn't get it. Strange decision making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
What if the Altroz doesnt meet the fit and finish quality of the Hyundai i20 and Honda Jazz and Suzuki Baleno and Ford Ecosport and Hyundai Venue? Surely we should call a spade a spade, right?
The ecosport and venue are from a different segment, in terms of fit and finish, in my opinion, the only cars altroz should be compared to is the Polo and the i20, i dont know how the baleno managed to creep into that list, I've been in several balenos, and almost all of them suffered from rattling issues, one which i drove was less than 3 months old and already there were rattling from the dashboard. So i am 100% sure the altroz will not nearly be as rattly as the baleno, it will require catastrophic factory fitting for the altroz to end up that bad.
The jazz is a very good car, but the absolute benchmark for fit and finish in the segment is the Polo and the i20, so i think its them that the altroz should be compared to.

Last edited by SaiSW : 9th January 2020 at 14:23.
SaiSW is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 14:24   #1362
Team-BHP Support
 
Chetan_Rao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,375
Thanked: 10,801 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
Tbh, i think there's only so much they can do with a 3 cylinder motor. Yes, there are more refined 3 pots in the market...
I think I saw it mentioned on the Tiago facelift thread that they've added a balancer shaft to the petrol motor. That should improve things quite a bit. Can't do anything about the 3-pot thrum though, I agree.
Chetan_Rao is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 15:45   #1363
BHPian
 
Turrrb0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chennai
Posts: 338
Thanked: 523 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaiSW View Post
I wonder what happened to the 4 cylinder petrol from the zest. That would have been fine for the altroz.
I'd anyday pick a 4 cylinder over a stressed, unrefined ( relatively ), low displacement 3 cylinder turbo.
Refinement aside the 3 cyl turbo is better than the 4 pot revotron. IIRC the revotron on bolt/zest was based on the archaic 1.2L Xeta engine. IMHO that would really be a downgrade if it were to make it to the altroz.
Turrrb0 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 15:54   #1364
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,480
Thanked: 9,884 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
People love electronic gizmos, sure, but how much of a deal-breaker is not having automation on a switch (IRVM dimming) that one would flip max once a day?

Where Tata do need work is the motors, more the NVH than performance. Humor me a second.
...
All in all, Altroz is a nearly-there product with a lot going for it. If Tata can just refine the engines while providing decent low & mid-range, it would round off a very capable offering rather nicely. Most of the target audience will buy it primarily for that, not necessarily top end performance or 0-100 numbers.
Couldn't agree more. I think in order to satisfy the eternal "has to undercut competition on pricing" requirement, Tata has tried to save on engine by making it a 3 pot. It is their philosophy alright. But then its a huge compromise. Especially in a "premium" segment, it really doesn't look good or ignorable. I mean even the entry level Santro from Hyundai has a smooth 4 cylinder motor. They are making compromise on a vital aspect. I would have asked for a 4 pot petrol in Altroz if the Tiago gets a 3 pot one. Also gives a nice distinction & justification for the "premium" tag.
Reinhard is online now   (7) Thanks
Old 9th January 2020, 16:19   #1365
BHPian
 
SaiSW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Good Blue Earth
Posts: 365
Thanked: 852 Times
Default re: Tata developing a premium hatchback, the Altroz. Edit: Launched at 5.29 lakh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrrb0 View Post
Refinement aside the 3 cyl turbo is better than the 4 pot revotron. IIRC the revotron on bolt/zest was based on the archaic 1.2L Xeta engine. IMHO that would really be a downgrade if it were to make it to the altroz.
The egg indica xeta? Ok that is bad. i have some terrible memories with that car, it will come.back to haunt me, glad it didn't find it's way.
SaiSW is offline  
Closed Thread

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2020, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks