[motorworks]

Just look at Ertiga vs Mobilio!! The Honda MUV is barely doing 1000-1500 cars per month and the Ertiga is four times that! Honda has paid heavily for pricing the Mobilio premium. People know what's a "Made for India Honda" finally

[thehighwayman]

The figures for Honda Jazz are not necessarily accurate . These are pre- launch bookings and quite a few of the customers may have opted for cancelations.

[anand.shankar]

Marutis numbers dont surprise me, it all boils down to the showrooms experience.

I am on a car hunt right now and here are some of my experiences in the last 2 weeks in different showrooms.

Maruti: Their showrooms outnumber the next contender 3:1 atleast in Bengaluru. No matter which part of the city you are, there is always a MSIL around the corner. Most of the showrooms are huge and the Sales folks just swoop down on you the moment you enter! I went in to check out a Swift/Ertiga on a Sunday at 6.15PM. They were almost shutting down still the Sales rep explained everything for atleast 25-30 mins while promising a test ride at my home the next day. The reps are very convincing, even though they are not very sound about the specs/trims, I am 6.3 and when I pointed out that there was '0' space at the rear after adjusting to my driving position, the SA said "still 3/4 ppl will be able to sit while you will also be comfortable. If you want you can place a child behind you" with a smile! I know thats nonsense, but she just wouldn't up on the car! I in my humble opinion would buy the car just for that! {P.S. : how the hell does that car sell so much ? neither there is any space at the rear, nor that boot is useful!}

Honda: I went there just before I went to MSIL, About 5.30PM ish, I try to park, the security guard with a sleepy face lets me know that I need to make it quick as its closing time! Yea right! I try to get in, main door closed, need to sneak in thro the side entrance. I get in, no lights, there are atleast 20 customer of shapes and sizes clinging to any available spot around the 'New Jazz'. I scan the area for a sales person, failed miserably. Waded through the curious hordes of customers to finally find a sales guy who seemed so tired in fact he looked like the guy who sold all those Dzires! He rummages through heaps of rubbish and hands me a price list which has a 'ring of tea' made by the bottom of a tea cup! and a brochure, I asked when a test drive was possible, he said its very difficult. I walked out puzzled, too bad the Jazz is an awesome car!

Hyundai : I dialed their showroom number just to check the On road price of the E-i20. Everyday since then the sales rep promptly keeps following up asking me when she can arrange a test drive! IMHO, Hyundai come pretty close to MSIL in Customer Satisfaction at least in the selling part. I would love to be their customer, no wonder they are No.2. If only they had a dealer network as wide as MSIL, am sure the gap between 1 & 2 would be much narrower.

Tata : I have owned 2 Indicas before, I like the company, was also a Tata group employee before. But no matter how hard I try Tata Motor sales guys keep chasing me out of the showroom!

Scene 1 : I wanted a cheap diesel car, basically to run errands. I call up and ask for Indica LX eV2, he asks me if I am a Taxi driver, I say no. He asks me then why I wanted the eV2? When there are other options! I tell him its none of his business and ask for the price, he says one minute and disconnects. I try again, I get someone else who gives me the price, but only after a lecture how Vista is better and how the Bolt is even better. On the same call, I inquired for the Safari Dicor price too, the Sales guys answer: 'Saar, Safari costly....." Finally accepting defeat, I called up asking for a Bolt, guy on phone says some one from the Bolt department will call me, never heard from them again! Well, TaMo, its not enough if you build good cars, you cant sell them if the ones sitting in your showrooms are morons!

Fiat : I called, they said they will return my call. This process repeated about 4 times. I got calls from a sweet girl asking if I got a call, when I said no, she said she will arrange a call back. Never heard from any of them! Again, too bad Punto Evo is a nice car.

Toyota : I haven't gone there shopping yet but I know them well because my current car is a Liva. I cant really comment about the sales experience but they do business "Like a Boss" Huge showrooms, staff outnumbers customer 4:1 any given time! The problem being a Toyota hatch owner is you get sandwiched between the Innova Fleet owners, and the Big wig Fortuner owners. Lot of Muscle flexing needed when you are in the Big T showrooms


Ford : Checked the Ecosport, waiting for the Ka/Aspire. No follow from their end, but the Showroom experience was good, I was given every variant for a test drive. Very knowledgeable Sales reps.

Looks like I might settle for a Maruti or a Hyundai this time.

[ampere]

With regards to Tata, it is very difficult to remove that perception of what they have set for themselves. It cannot be changed in a day. It can only evolve over time. Just the way Hyundai has done it over the years. If Tata needs to get back to stride, I think it cannot be a one or two product wonder which can miraculously bring them back. It has to be a slew of products, consistently hitting the right note with the customer. And while this happens; in the background they also need to pull up their socks on support logistics. Its quite an uphill task, which has to take shape right from the top.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Marutis numbers dont surprise me, it all boils down to the showrooms experience.

Hello, I too was in the market recently scouting for a small car/sedan.
My experience has been slightly different from you.

Toyota had the best maintained showrooms. Best turned out sales people. But I was more interested in their used cars. In that regard, they were always prompt in answering my questions over phone/email/in person. But they never made the first move.

Honda's showroom feel was ok, but had the best sales force who were very active in making the sale, by making up follow up calls and sending me additional stuff on the cars and volunteering for test drives. And their communication ended at the point, I told them I have made my purchase. So my take is they had good customer experience processes in place. It switched on as soon as they found a potential customer, made the customer seriously evaluate their offering and they said a good bye as soon as they were informed that a purchase has been done

Maruti and Hyundai were very similar. Dirty, somewhat basic showrooms coupled with lot of noise and activity. Salesforce pushing to close a deal there and then. Will do anything at that point of time - offer cool drinks, talk sweet, offer test drives but didn't follow up at all. They seemed busy - rightly so. Efficient but not impactful.

Tata - worst showroom of all car dealers I visited. The entrance itself was a turn off. Even my neighborhood grocery store has revamped the store's look and feel to attract customers - who already go there in droves. Sales force tried to make a pitch, but were very unimpressive. They offered a test drive. But I came away feeling that a car just cannot be sold in a way or a place like the Tata dealer was doing. No follow ups - and how can they, they never took my contact details.

Fiat - I just visited it casually. Chances were low of me buying a Fiat and the experience with the dealership didn't alter my views.

[avdhesh15]

The Dzire is like a no-nonsense vehicle and which is why so many people opt for it. 9 out of 10 times there will be no issues with the car.

From my experience of owning a Dzire and City I still stand by an earlier comment around 6 months back that the Dzire feels like a better package for in-city running with a better suspension setup, seating position etc. However having said that, nothing can come close to the City for highway runs (esp the Mumbai-Nashik highway during monsoons!).

My comparison comes from owning an i10, Swift and SX4 in the past 5 years and hearing of experiences from family and friends on various other cars.

[FuelInjector]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Tata : I have owned 2 Indicas before, I like the company, was also a Tata group employee before. But no matter how hard I try Tata Motor sales guys keep chasing me out of the showroom!

Your experience with Tata sales is very similar to mine. In 2007 bought an indigo GLS from concorde motors in diary circle. The sales people could have been more polite. Finally there was one Ms Sangeetha who called me after a week, followed up, helped with a lot of stuff, introduced me to the service head and that made my mind change.
However you experience in Honda is different to mine.
Did you go to Whitefield or Dakshin honda? I would suggest Dakshin in Lavelle road had a good sales (in 2012) and after sales experience. There is a guy (forgot his name but he drives a 2001 Maruti Esteem ) who is incharge of customer experience and does a good job in negotiating and providing accessories.

Originally Posted by ampere

If Tata needs to get back to stride, I think it cannot be a one or two product wonder which can miraculously bring them back. It has to be a slew of products, consistently hitting the right note with the customer.

@ampere - per my experience, find the TATA customer reach sinusoidal. in some cities/showrooms they are great, while in others they are pathetic. Do you think it could do with the guys who run those particular showroom?

[Swapnil4585]

Originally Posted by FuelInjector

@ampere - per my experience, find the TATA customer reach sinusoidal. in some cities/showrooms they are great, while in others they are pathetic. Do you think it could do with the guys who run those particular showroom?

I think the places where the Tata showrooms are in operation since the Sumo/Safari and Indica/Indigo days, are the ones where the private customer experience is disappointing. The newer showrooms must not be that displeasing to the customer.

[Asifgrkhan]

Originally Posted by aroonanand

Sadly, this seems to be the case. I own a Sunny from 2012 and touchwood, have had absolutely no issues with the car... Workhorse, so easy to drive in the city, proven diesel engine, good highway cruiser, decently loaded features, very fuel efficient, acres of room. GTO will vouch for the reliability of this car.. Pretty much the same feature list as the Ciaz, ticks all the right boxes, wows none but offends none either and comparable pricing too, but see the delta in the sale units... Probably shows the power of the Maruti brand and the lack of faith in Nissan in India.

I don't know what is difficult to understand about this.

When you are coming in with a relatively unknown brand without any long record of trouble free service, you will have to have at least two of the three items below checked off.

1. Killer Looks and Style (not too difficult to do - See i20 v2)
2. Loaded with equipment unheard of in the segment (not too difficult to do - See Hyundai)
3. Price lower than market leaders (not too difficult to see consequences of not doing so - see Tata (any), GM (any), Nissan (any) etc etc

Of course, this being a free country, car makers can continue doing the same thing and continue to get the same results.

[vinit]

Well, Fiat has to be really applauded for one thing, consistency. Their sales numbers may be low, but they are super consistent. Its not easy to maintain the same numbers irrespective of the market going up or down..

[low_rider]

The "Herd Mentality" that everyone keeps talking about here w.r.t Maruti users, is just a survival instinct born out of insecurity. The insecurity in this particular scenario is the weak (almost non-existent) consumer protection framework in our country.
If you try any new offering in the market and face some problem, only God can help you. The manufacturer, customer care, dealers don't even give a damn after the sales is done. And not just for small cars, even for Audi/BMW/Jaguar segment, the treatment is same.
We cannot compare the Indian scenario with foreign one because in most countries the system works to protect the consumer, so you feel confident to try new products.

So, the Indian buyer prefers to stick with the herd rather than bet on a new product which might be superior.

[vinit]

Not only for cars, but the herd mentality is prevalent in India in almost every walk of life. The atmosphere, in general, is not so conducive for innovation. Its a vicious cycle. Innovation needs funds, Funding demands Return on investment. RoI needs consumer demand. And consumers look for the sales numbers (herd mentality) ... Afterall who will swim against the tide ?

[sadsack]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Are you sure about this?

1. HMIL has consistently reported positive net profit in last 10 years (http://www.slideshare.net/gondaliyamehul/fm-37393204 page 22)

2013-14 Net profit was 1000+ cror : http://archive.financialexpress.com/...-india/1297592

2. Toyota is in black after being in red for last 3 years (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...cle7134691.ece)

I am talking about consistent monthly operational profits. You are right that Hyundai has shown net profits and Toyota has also come into the black. Those profits are the sum total of a number of parameters including depreciation of machinery and sometimes the profits are over a quarter or half a year, while the rest of the losses continue. But I have no issues with you. Like I said I was referring to monthly operational profits which I have found in AutocarIndiaPro.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Word-by-mouth publicity of a new car arrival is also critical. The Sunny partly failed because the word quickly got around that Nissan's After Sales Service was shoddy, and the showroom behaviour of Nissan personnel was not great either. Despite having two wonderful engine options, the Sunny is not setting the sales charts on fire.

Like I said in my earlier post, wait and watch. Interesting times ahead.

Discounts and other freebies are a part of strategies to remain ahead. Every manufacturer feels the heat of the competition all the time. The Creta and definitely not the S-Cross are reasons to start the heat. Anyway the pricing of the Creta, especially the diesel variants are higher than the Duster variants, so I would just say that the discount strategy is precautionary and perhaps even pre-emptive. But the proximity of 20th and 21st cannot be just the launch for those who have made up their mind to give the Creta a try are suddenly not going to change tack. Regards the Kites you are right, I am being very harsh and too quick to judge the prospects. But with the flow of information regarding new cars on old platforms, I am just saying the probability (which I have stated as a surety) of them not taking off is very very high. You are right, we should wait and watch.

Originally Posted by srinath.s3758034

I'm sorry but by no means was my statement a sweeping conclusion that first time buyers are opting for "the best". It's just an open question as to whether people are finally waking up to products of quality better than what they have been used to getting in the past, say, 5-10 years ago.

My friend I did not accuse you of sweeping conclusions. I am also saying that as just enthusiasts we do not have the tools to conclude if the shift is long term or if it signifies greater knowledge about what is better and desirable. That is all. Please do not take offence from my comment, it was not intended.

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Scene 1 : I wanted a cheap diesel car, basically to run errands. I call up and ask for Indica LX eV2... but only after a lecture how Vista is better and how the Bolt is even better..

They have a*b*c variants across their hatchbacks in petrol & diesel options. I wonder how any customer would decide on the variant. Top selling brands have 3 variants - high, mid & low and so between petrol & diesel, so there are max 6 variants, which is easy to decide.

Originally Posted by ampere

With regards to Tata, it is very difficult to remove that perception of what they have set for themselves. It cannot be changed in a day. It can only evolve over time.

The process of change will kick in after they start. But the start of change looks many years away. I think it got to do with arrogant middle management & slack top management.

[Pratik Chavan]

I see a huge problem here for Tata Motors. Their taxi segment is being slowly dominated by the likes of Maruti Dzire and Toyota Etios (Reason the Dzire seems to be doing insane sales numbers can be attributed to the fact that Uber has financing options for its drivers for buying Dzires as taxis).