[Prodigy07]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

PS: Surprising to see the pattern that most of them who are having issues with the Abarth are the VW GT owners.

Well said nkrishnap!

When VW GT Tsi was launched, there were many folks complaining of DSG. Many wanted Tsi with manual gear box. Now, when Fiat has launched this affordable 'hot hatch' in manual version, folks again start complaining about rubbery gear shift, poor interiors etc; Sigh!

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

So now, a 145bhp turbo petrol hatch, with good handling characteristics is "not a big deal for anybody". While not so long ago, you thought the 105bhp GT was "mind blowing".

Frankly, why the dual stance buddy?



It would be brilliant if VW does that. And I'm sure everyone on this forum would applaud that move by VW. All we want is better choices for us customers.

But how does that take away anything from the fact that the Abarth Punto is the first step in that direction of affordable performance?

Let VW bring the GTI first and make it succeed, I would be one of the first to criticize FIAT if they dont launch another hardcore version of the Punto to counter that move by VW.



And if i remember correctly (and I do), you proclaimed that you couldnt buy the Punto only because of the powertrain. The sole reason you had to go buy a GT is for the powertrain, and that Punto has the "best sorted dynamics" out there, let down by the powertrain.

Now FIAT comes with an option for guys like you who had to look at other brands earlier because FIAT didnt have a powerful engine choice in their lineup - it is shot down for being watered down?

Incase you forgot which post I'm referring to, qouting it here - Your very own words.



Echoes the Indian customer well though. When we buy cars, we want it for regular roads. When a company launches cars - we criticize its not made out for trackdays. lol

This is going to be the last post I am going to put here on this topic.

I have no problem with a punto t jet. What I have beef with is a punto t jet dressed up as an abarth, and its not even called an abarth edition or something. They are balantly claiming it to be the real thing which is comparable to vw dressing up a 1.2 tsi as a polo gti. I don't know about you, but I find that kind of treatment dished to us here only in India to be well, bloody frustrating.

And you know what it was the same story with the Laura vrs as well. Nobody found it very amusing when all they did for the vrs was put a sunroof on top and give a blue paint for the normal 1.8 tsi.

Both of these cases are just pitiful. It actually would have been better if fiat just gave us an abarth edition and skoda just gave us a vrs edition. I mean who are they trying to fool here. Anybody with a net connection would be able to realize that what we are getting is a fake vrs or a fake abarth. Why do these guys even bother doing this sort of thing.

As I said before I have got no problems with the punto t jet. I refuse to call it an abarth. You can say its got 145 bhp and all but the fact is its just not 145 bhp fast. It's in fact slower than the regular punto you get abroad. It is NOT AN ABARTH. That said if I haven't got a gt now, I would have surely gone for this punto t jet as well it clearly is the best hatch in our market. No one is denying that one bit. But what I have got a problem with is the dishonest marketing approach taken by fiat and co into somehow making us feel that we have brought something special when in fact everybody knows its complete bs. And yes if there was an option to debadge abarth badges and put fiat badges back on it again, I would certainly tick that box on the options list on my punto t jet.

My 2 cents to car makers. If you are not going to bring us your real performance cars. Fine. Don't do it. We can understand that its a risky move and might turn out to be a dud. But please just don't give us fake copies of the real thing adding salt to our wounds. Just be honest and give it as what it actually is. We Indian petrol heads may not have the roads nor the proper fuel, nor the money to practically own some of your cars. But we do have our dignity. Please don't rid us of that as well.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

I mean who are they trying to fool here. Anybody with a net connection would be able to realize that what we are getting is a fake abarth. That said if I haven't got a gt now, I would have surely gone for this

You should get a Good net connection for youself!
You have got a GT? Really?
Once you get a good net connection just search for GT.

[theredliner]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

They are balantly claiming it to be the real thing which is comparable to vw dressing up a 1.2 tsi as a polo gti.

Nakul, from what I have read in your past few posts, I feel you are taking the name 'Abarth' in the wrong way.

'Abarth' cannot be compared directly to 'GTI' as Abarth is used for a range of cars tuned to be sportier than the regular mass market version, which the current car really is. Abarth cars come in multiple varieties.

In case of Polo, 'GTI' = 1.8 TSI/one particular high performance variant. That is not the case with 'Abarth'.
'Abarth' is just like 'GT' in the VW cars we have here, a collection of higher performance/sportier variants.

Your argument comparing it with GTI would hold good if they had called this 145HP car as 'Abarth Punto Evo Supersport' or 'Abarth Punto Evo esseesse'. In that case I too would have agreed wholeheartedly (including most others probably).

But that is not the case here. They are just calling it Abarth Punto Evo. Overdrive had revealed that FIAT has plans to bring 180HP to India in the future. They'll probably use one of those names in that 180HP variant.

IMO, using 'GT' badge on the mass market Polo with 15 HP more without any other changes barring engine/transmission is a much worse thing than using 'Abarth' badge on a mass market Punto with 55 HP more, with tightened suspension, lowered ground clearance and some Abarth bits like wheels, dials etc.

[asr245]

Totally disagree with that (Nakul's post)

Fiat or any other will give us the real thing when they feel there is a market for it. At least the "Abarth" Punto has something actually more than just a body kit as compared to the "vRS" or "Sport" version of other manufacturers. Yes, it's not the real thing but if I had the money for it now, at 10L I would have surely plonked it in for it.

If they get me the real thing at 20L, surely I dont have the money & even if I did, I would have needed to do a lot of explaining to do to family as to why this was better than the 10L version.

I totally want this & i want it to be differentiated from the regular Punto - so no problem with the name Abarth, even if it's only half baked.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

I don't know about you, but I find that kind of treatment dished to us here only in India to be well, bloody frustrating.

Both of these cases are just pitiful. It actually would have been better if fiat just gave us an abarth edition and skoda just gave us a vrs edition.

I mean who are they trying to fool here.

Why do these guys even bother doing this sort of thing.

But what I have got a problem with is the dishonest marketing approach taken by fiat and co into somehow making us feel that we have brought something special when in fact everybody knows its come plete bs.

Just be honest and give it as what it actually is. We Indian petrol heads may not have the roads nor the proper fuel, nor the money to practically own some of your cars. But we do have our dignity. Please don't rid us of that as well.

Impressed. I wouldn't have used so many hard words though. BS, fool, pitiful, frustrating. Moreover - questioning the dignity of the Indian buyer who buys watered down products.

However, I wonder why you were requesting for a watered down GTI in that thread? Post quoted below-

On one side you say you would have bought it, and on another side you say who they are trying to fool? On one side you were requesting for a regular highline Polo with more performance badged as GTI, and on the other hand you are crying foul at FIAT for badging the 145bhp regular Punto as Abarth and robbing us of our dignity.

Or is it only FIAT and Abarth that commands dignity? Will take that as an appreciation then. Thanks.

Originally Posted by nakul0888

Would be cool if they give us different trim levels for the gti, if they are launching it here.

The highline versions can get all the goodies like dsg, sunroof, led lamps, high end HU, high end instrument cluster, electric seats the works...etc.

The trendline versions however would gets a manual and the same stuff available on the normal highline polo. Of course safety equipment and the way the car drives ( stuff under the skin ) remains the same.

There you go, a choice for everyone.
Trendline should be max 14 lakh OTR and highline can touch maximum 19 lakhs.

I think it's a sweet deal.

Whether it be a watered down 145bhp Abarth at 10L or a watered down 180hp GTI at 14L for the market - sweet deals all around for the customer, buddy.

More affordable performance cars whichever way it is. You just need to stop thinking about the brand and enjoy the car.

[nakul0888]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Impressed. I wouldn't have used so many hard words though. BS, fool, pitiful, frustrating. Moreover - questioning the dignity of the Indian buyer who buys watered down products.

However, I wonder why you were requesting for a watered down GTI in that thread? Post quoted below-

On one side you say you would have bought it, and on another side you say who they are trying to fool? On one side you were requesting for a regular highline Polo with more performance badged as GTI, and on the other hand you are crying foul at FIAT for badging the 145bhp regular Punto as Abarth and robbing us of our dignity.

Or is it only FIAT and Abarth that commands dignity? Will take that as an appreciation then. Thanks.



Whether it be a watered down 145bhp Abarth at 10L or a watered down 180hp GTI at 14L for the market - sweet deals all around for the customer, buddy.



More affordable performance cars whichever way it is. You just need to stop thinking about the brand and enjoy the car.

You very well know what I actually meant when I said different trim levels for the polo gti. Dont take my words out of context and twist the meaning. When I said different trim levels for the gti i meant throwing away or adding on fancy pancy luxury stuff like sat nav and sunroof so as to price it at different levels. I didn't say to throw away the gti hardware, the suspension, the wheels, brakes, steering, exhaust, the power, stuff that makes a gti a gti. Big difference from what you claim. I am pretty sure you are more than capable of understanding that. Didnt quite understand why you are doing this ?

[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

You very well know what I actually meant when I said different trim levels for the polo gti. Dont take my words out of context and twist the meaning. When I said different trim levels for the gti i meant throwing away or adding on fancy pancy luxury stuff like sat nav and sunroof so as to price it at different levels. I didn't say to throw away the gti hardware, the suspension, the wheels, brakes, steering, exhaust, the power, stuff that makes a gti a gti. Big difference from what you claim. I am pretty sure you are more than capable of understanding that. Didnt quite understand why you are doing this ?

So do you mean, Fiat is just dumping the 145 bhp engine without reworking on the suspension and ride? I have sat in the car and got a good drive. I can certainly say it rides different than the stock Punto. The work has been done on the suspension and brakes for sure. Unlike just the engine and gearbox combo of the VW GT TSI. The steering, suspending and the ride does take away whatever fun the engine and gearbox combo of the GT TSI brings to the table.

The GT is neither a full blow sports version of the car nor the Punto Evo Abarth is. There is a separate version called Supersports or Esseesse as what they call it.

Not sure why VW GT owners are trying to hard to highlight issues on the Abarth which for god sake has not even launched yet.

[keroo1099]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

I didn't say to throw away the gti hardware, the suspension, the wheels, brakes, steering, exhaust, the power, stuff that makes a gti a gti.

You forgot lower ground clearance, 95 otane fuel (prefers 98), and higher service costs if you want it to be a true GTi.

You think with the kind of roads we live with, the quality of our fuel, and most importantly the incredible road sense of an average indian driver you could truly enjoy it as a daily drive? I have a T-Jet, and sometimes feel I am doing it a disservice beause it's just not possible to drive it the way it is meant to be driven thanks to Bangalore traffic.

[Rubbertramps]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

So do you mean, Fiat is just dumping the 145 bhp engine without reworking on the suspension and ride? I have sat in the car and got a good drive. I can certainly say it rides different than the stock Punto. The work has been done on the suspension and brakes for sure. Unlike just the engine and gearbox combo of the VW GT TSI. The steering, suspending and the ride does take away whatever fun the engine and gearbox combo of the GT TSI brings to the table.

The GT is neither a full blow sports version of the car nor the Punto Evo Abarth is. There is a separate version called Supersports or Esseesse as what they call it.

Not sure why VW GT owners are trying to hard to highlight issues on the Abarth which for god sake has not even launched yet.

Even had it been named Punto Tjet, i am sure there would be criticism that it could have been named Abarth with Abarth decals and Abarth alloys.

I would say "Ignorance is bliss !". If you know what i mean !

[sidindica]

Having seen all the comments and me having experienced this car on track, even if it was a pre production prototype, this car, compared to the polo GT, rides, handles, steers and goes better. The shift quality of evo's cog is wee bit better than what I experience in my Punto, that's due to the change in the gear linkage cable design. Though not as butter smooth as the cogs from many other manufacturers.
Abarth or no abarth, given the sane pricing, if Fiat gets this right, this will be the hot hatch to have.
At least better than what we have seen in the name of hatches with monikers like RS, sportz etc.
And the GTI will cost a bomb for all the hardware it will come with.
Accept for what manufacturers are giving us, and in Europe, the Abarth Punto was discontinued in 2013.

[xtremeshock]

Definitely an exciting come-back from Fiat. If they fix their Gear Box Notchiness I think this will be a true enthusiasts car, imagine re-tuning this baby. But I have heard that there is a aftermarket short shifter available already which should take care of this problem.

So hopefully people buy this car soon and I will then pick up this baby from someone eager to sell it within 1.5-2years, thats when it will be a true bang for the buck.

Cant wait till the test-drives are open, I for one will run to the fiat showrooms.

[SnS_12]

Till now the Polo GT series were the fastest hatch you could buy under 10 lakhs in India.

But, now with the fastest Punto arriving(not calling it Abarth for reasons kindly refer to above posts ) the trouble is going to start for GT and its owners, as now they would always be in the rear view mirror of the 145 bhp Punto and specially out of a corner. So the GT owners really do have something to look forward to.

Just awaiting the price release and a test drive to seal the deal.

[Mad Max]

I do think companies here in India take a little bit more leeway when it comes to marketing. Remember the WagonR Stingray. I almost lost it when that came out. As a Corvette fan, that was the ultimate slap on my face. Calling a boxy four door puny engined car the same as a classy roadster / coupe with a V8.

So, I understand where Nakul is coming from. From a purist point of view, it may not be appropriate that they do that ONLY for India. Almost all car makers are culpable for that. And so, singling out Fiat, in this case, isn't appropriate.

Regardless of what we call it, I think this is an awesome move by Fiat. Slowly positioning itself for the niche crowd. I am sure all of us (including me, a former Fiat owner) are still shaking at the thought of their after sales tie up with Tata. If they can improve their after sales service and also provide a good differentiation in their line up, they should be successful. Only thing - in India, the market and the people are unforgiving. Hopefully, they can draw the crowd by playing to a specific set of people.

[anand.shankar]

Originally Posted by nakul0888

If fiat themselves have this same mindest that their own performance arm is not a big deal for anybody well then all I can say is, its just sad. It's upto them to create the brand, not anybody else. Offering half hearted attempts as you said it ain't going to make much difference. Just put it this way, if vw seizes the opportunity and coughes up a proper gti for 16 lakhs this whole abarth thing will look like a joke.



You are right, I am not that into this whole brand loyalty/affinity thing. What matters to me is the end product and its prospective ownership.

Was a big fan of Honda India, not anymore now with all their mobilio and brv business. I don't care about vw either. Just a petrol head wondering if he will ever be able to in his lifetime all own those juicy no bullshit blue blooded driver's cars that appear on top gear/ YouTube ..etc and drive them right out of showroom at realistic prices with a warranty while still living in my mother country.

Not sure what the problem is that you find with this launch!! Watered down ? please list out the non CBU cars that aren't watered down ? If 145BHP car doesn't deserve a special tag then what does ? Not sure what the Euro blokes said, but in India, those are pretty serious numbers for a petrol engine! Fiat ultimately has to sell a few cars!

Personally, I dont care whether they named it the Abarth or Fiat. When MSIL can splash some fancy paint and body kits and call the Swift a Rally Sport (RS edition) and if Toyota can plonk a 90/70hp engines and call its Etios/Liva TRD I really cant understand what wrong in the Abarth venture, you in fact need to be praising Fiat for actually making it almost atleast 50% more powerful rather than dishing out a sticker job.

And why would it be a joke if the GTI is out for 16L ? the difference of 4L comes so easy ? and speculated on road price of GTI is about 20L, so where does this 16L figure come from ? What if I am happy with 145 horses and just dont want the 180+ horses ? :P

For all this talk, this might end up being a dud for Fiat again, just because we have such an opinionated and biased market.

On one hand we see many on this forum conclude that Swift is an 'enthusiast' choice, and on the other side, criticisms that the Punto isn't Abarth enough. Peace out guys!

Originally Posted by JayD

I heard that On the Road price in cochin is 11.3 lakhs. If that is the case, I don't think they even need to bother launching it. Another DOA product by Fiat India

Seriously, anything above the GT Tsi and the chances of success are almost NIL.

Add to that the ad's for the car are really poorly thought out. There is no indication of the power or the speciality of the car. It just looks like one of those million 'sticker editions'

It was mentioned by a fiat engineer that there is a difference in the turbo, compared to the Linea.

Really ? Why should it undercut the GT according to you ? I wish they price it around the GT, may be about 50K- 1L over it. Its not like the GT commands any cult status in India, nor its a benchmark. Like most have already mentioned, many have bought the GT just for the Auto.

Agree with the ad part, it was one of the worst ad I've ever seen! What color combinations are those! Even a school kid with some basic CG knowledge could have come up with a better one. Would have probably cost Fiat only an ice cream or something.

Yes, Its supposed to have a bigger Turbo.