[gsurya]

Another hare brained trial balloon that wont take off. Is the Govt admitting that the entire PUC scheme to measure vehicular emissions is just a scam?

My 17+ year Fiat Uno petrol was far less polluting than many 7-8 year Indica's on road because it was well maintained & perfectly running condition.

Will a 15+ year privately owned car that has run 1 lakh kms be worse than a 5 year old car that has run 3 lakh kms - as fleet cars do?

[rr_zen]

Originally Posted by gsurya

Another hare brained trial balloon that wont take off. Is the Govt admitting that the entire PUC scheme to measure vehicular emissions is just a scam?

My 17+ year Fiat Uno petrol was far less polluting than many 7-8 year Indica's on road because it was well maintained & perfectly running condition.

Will a 15+ year privately owned car that has run 1 lakh kms be worse than a 5 year old car that has run 3 lakh kms - as fleet cars do?

+1 to that. My 12+ year old Esteem is barely covered 55K as on date and I can say for sure is less polluting than a lot of other relatively newer vehicles on the road. If the govt was really interested in reducing pollution, they should have effective pollution checks done and any vehicle irrespective of age should be barred from plying on the roads if it doesn't meet the emission norms.

Also, IMO I take that 15% discount with loads of salt as there will be a whole set of fine print to it eventually and may not be as true as it seems to be.

[apachelongbow]

I have a bright jugadu idea!!! I will buy a thrashed Fiat, Maruti or Ambassador, Bharat Stage 1/2 which ever the government wants to trash. I will then junk this car and ensure I get a 15% coupon to buy the new 3.2 liter Endevour. In the process the environment can go to hell, because I am actually increasing my pollution contribution...

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I have a bright jugadu idea!!! I will buy a thrashed Fiat, Maruti or Ambassador, Bharat Stage 1/2 which ever the government wants to trash. I will then junk this car and ensure I get a 15% coupon to buy the new 3.2 liter Endevour. In the process the environment can go to hell, because I am actually increasing my pollution contribution...

Not really - the BS1/BS2 Fiat or Maruti or Amby will probably pollute more than the 3.2 Endy.

You are taking the Fiat/Maruti/Amby off the road and it will never be run again as the engine will be disabled via some chemicals.

A larger engine produces more pollution but taking an old clunker off the road results in a net reduction in the carbon footprint.

This same scheme was implemented in the US at the peak of recession and it met with roaring success.

[kartavya]

I am sure it will be 15% of the value of the scrapped car when buying a new ond. Even the government is not foolish enough to give 15% on showroom prices of new cars. There will be a lot of ceilings and caps to this scheme.

[GTO]

India shouldn't blindly adopt schemes & ways from countries with 800 cars / 1000 citizens. In India, the ratio is more like 30 - 40 cars / 1000 people. Our problems are unique.

This scrappage scheme is nothing but the result of intense lobbying from car manufacturers. I highly doubt it will see the light of day.

At best, old cars shouldn't be scrapped. They could be banned from big cities where the pollution problem is severe. However, the same old car could serve as someone's ride in a smaller town, be used as an ambulance / support vehicle in rural India. Public transportation sucks in India and a perfectly running car shouldn't just be put to rest. It can still offer good service outside of the big cities.

Originally Posted by kartavya

I am sure it will be 15% of the value of the scrapped car when buying a new one.

You mean someone will scrap a used car with a value of 1 lakh rupees for 15,000? I don't think so, buddy.

[Skyline_GT]

Highly doubt how successful this government program will be. Generally most owners including me who have kept their cars/bikes for more than 6-7 years have an emotional connect to their vehicles and most of them wouldn't want to give them away for a mere 15% discount. Rather they would buy a new vehicle and yet retain their beloved car/bike too.
Not to forget most of these owners who keep their rides for these many years care a lot about their cars/bikes so chances are good most of them are well maintained and taken care of.
I personally know a few of them who still prefer driving their decade old Fiats and Coronas despite having multiple new cars in their garage.

I myself have a 13 year old TVS Scooty pep first gen which we bought way back in 2003. Still works smooth as butter and is the workhorse of our house for all the grocery/market trips. And i hardly think it would be making any substantial amount of pollution compared to a brand new Scooty/Activa.

As GTO said what government can do is implement schemes for willing owners to sell their cars/bikes for a certain amount and these cars/bikes can be used in rural areas of our country to counter the lack of public transport in rural areas.

[NPX]

Originally Posted by kartavya

I am sure it will be 15% of the value of the scrapped car when buying a new ond.

I think you want to say that the 15% discount will be given based on the ex showroom price of the scrapped car. Otherwise it is of no use as rightly said by GTO

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I have a bright jugadu idea!!! I will buy a thrashed Fiat, Maruti or Ambassador, Bharat Stage 1/2 which ever the government wants to trash. I will then junk this car and ensure I get a 15% coupon to buy the new 3.2 liter Endevour.

I am sure the terms & conditions of the discount scheme will manadate atleast 1 or 2 years of ownership for the car to be scrapped.

[swathyd]

Originally Posted by chakri400

I need to buy an age old car (12 year+) for 10-20k as I plan to buy upcoming Innova crysta! I love this scheme, makes a lot of economic sense

The resale value of old vehicles will go up when this scheme is introduced.

[KiloAlpha]

This sort of scrappage scheme is a good idea - generally speaking. However, I don't think the 15% discount is a good idea though. It should be a flat 50K off or something like that.
On top of that, if the government really wants to get crafty, down and dirty, they could just give us a Form 16A (or some equivalent) saying that we get the 50K as a flat rebate on the IT return. If your tax burden is less than 50K, you get the appropriate refund from the Income Tax department.

[imp!]

If this does get implemented then this is a typical knee jerk reaction which doesn't address our problems. Our older cars need to be checked for road worthiness and if they are road worthy, allowed to ply in rural India, as GTO has suggested.

Combatting pollution in Urban India needs several approaches. Citizens education, getting old commercial vehicles off our roads. Ensuring proper construction and infrastructure development protocols by reducing dust. Proper pavements for walking will go a long way. Efficient public transport - Bombay and Delhi are good, but, they can be better, and the rest of our cities need to catch up these two. Honestly when will start applying ourselves?

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I have a bright jugadu idea!!! I will buy a thrashed Fiat, Maruti or Ambassador, Bharat Stage 1/2 which ever the government wants to trash. I will then junk this car and ensure I get a 15% coupon to buy the new 3.2 liter Endevour. In the process the environment can go to hell, because I am actually increasing my pollution contribution...

There would probably be a clause that mandates that the scrapped vehicle should have been owned by you for the past xx years in order to prevent such practices.

[wanderernomad]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

There would probably be a clause that mandates that the scrapped vehicle should have been owned by you for the past xx years in order to prevent such practices.

I dont think so mate, as that would defeat the purpose in case the old car has had 3-4 owners wont get scrapped for a long long time.

[mycarhasablower]

With all the viewpoints that i see here i am surprised to not see even one opinion that isnt just a product of public brainwashing.

Fact1: taking delhi for example almost all private vehicles over the age of 12 right now are petrol engine vehicles.

Fact 2: A brand new diesel vehicle today produces 10-100 times more particulate mater than a good condition euro 2 vehicle.

Fact3: most carb vehicles(good condition) can be upgraded to meet and exceed euro 2 norms making them cleaner than current diesel vehicles in terms of PM, all you need to do is rejet the carb( twice a year if the place u live in has extreme weather changes like delhi) and install a catalytic convertor. Carb cars in the 90s already had a cat con.

Fact4: Almost all old gasoline vehicles in delhi run on CNG. Asuming they are not burning oil.....that makes a new diesel vehicle infinetely more polluting in terms of particulate matter(CNG vehicles produce ZERO PM).

Fact5: there has been very little change in engine technology of motorcycles in the past 30 years. Just an addition of a cat con and some rejetting will make a good condition 30 year old bike exceed the current norms better than a new one.


Fact 6: The environmental consequences of adding large quantities of plastics to the environment blow any possible the environmental advantages out of the water. Most of the plastic in this country currently is incinerated. And the gases released, well you guys have no idea what all they can do.

Fact 7:The number of old vehicles is highly over estimated. A large number of the crore vehicles mentioned are already scrapped. the number is of registered vehicles. And most scrap dealers dont submit papers of the scrapped vehicle.

Fact 8:With no standards established for vehicle scrapping, the environmental consequences of scraping a vehicle in our country is far more than letting it run.
Go to a scrap yard and see the colour of the ground. Yeah thats black stuff is toxic motor fluid seeping into the ground. And its estimated, one litre of used motor oil can pollute upto 1 million litres of water.

Fact 9: You must have seen a lot of old diesel vehicles including trucks belching out continuous clouds of smoke. A lot of them have been adjusted(you can adjust the diesel injection pump for this) at local mechanics to increase power by injecting more fuel since they struggle with the rampant overloading goods and people carriers are subjected to. No they arent supposed to pollute that much!


Let me put it this way. either the policymakers have no idea what they are doing, or they are conveniently manipulating facts for economic gain

We are sitting on an environmental time bomb and no delhi is not the worst of it.

with the measures currently being taken, delhis air pollution will accelerate and will start declining only post 2030 when all pre euro 6 diesel vehicles will be off the road.

When it comes to PM replacing an old petrol or cng run vehicle with a euro 4 diesel vehicle is ignorant, sacrilegious and plain stupid.

For the lehman, a comparitive examination of the tail pipe of a one month old diesel vehicle, and any old euro 2 petrol vehicle and any old cng vehicle will dispell all doubts.(Ive been in a closed room at the end of a production line with cars both diesel and petrol going full throttle for brake testing. it doesnt take an engineer to tell which is worse and by how much, your nose and lungs will do the job)

youll see black soot , rust and rust respectively. And yes black soot(PM) is bad, rust is very good

basically pretty much every one here and in the country has been brainwashed and since its in our culture to not question people in position of power, therefore we dont.

BTW, the straight jump to euro 6 isnt a favour the govt is doing to the people. for them euro 5 and 6 are just the same(pretty much the same fuel) They did it because they didnt do their job to meet the long planned target of providing euro5 fuel to the country by 2017. (Euro 5 means Diesel particulate filters means diesel cars produce minuscule amounts of PM)

These guys really know how to make a huge mistake look like a huge achievement making a joke out of public intelligence in the process.

[wanderernomad]

Ok going by the above logic the way forward should be:

1. Limit the annual production of new vehicles, set strict limits as to the new ones that can be produced and even then they should have a very high standard of refinement and clear cut technological advances to justify production.

2. All vehicle makers should retrofit older vehicles with parts to make them less polluting than before.

3. Start giving incentives for older vehicles made green and let there be a strict test every 5 years to determine if the older vehicle is to be continued or not.

Will this work? I wonder.