[Dr.Abhi]

as per ACI review, baleno is approximately 100 kg lighter than similar engined swift which itself is structurally unstable as per global ncap crash test. Can anybody justify such a flimsy built on baleno which the maruti is retailing through so called premium Nexa. Or all the premiumness is only regarding leather sofas in customer lounge with hot coffees being served in premium ambience?? I was under the impression that maruti is targeting safety and quality concious customers through Nexa who are willing to pay. But selling structurally compromised cars like Baleno with so called more features for the sake of premiumness is too disgusting and very difficult to digest.

[Ashir]

Originally Posted by Dr.Abhi

as per ACI review, baleno is approximately 100 kg lighter than similar engined swift which itself is structurally unstable as per global ncap crash test. Can anybody justify such a flimsy built on baleno which the maruti is retailing through so called premium Nexa. Or all the premiumness is only regarding leather sofas in customer lounge with hot coffees being served in premium ambience?? I was under the impression that maruti is targeting safety and quality concious customers through Nexa who are willing to pay. But selling structurally compromised cars like Baleno with so called more features for the sake of premiumness is too disgusting and very difficult to digest.

Well, I can't say 100% if Baleno is structurally stable than Swift or not, and no one can unless tested. But I am sure being light does not always mean losing on quality and safety. The Baleno is made on a new platform. And with the evolution of technology and experience, the next gen platforms ARE lighter and structurally better. Moreover, if it is going to sell under NEXA, I am sure they are not going to compromise on quality. People are well aware these days.

Also, since the new safety standards are on their way, there is a little or no point in launching a new vehicle without keeping those standards in mind. In facelifts, the cost is marginally increased which won't be able to take care of the increased cost to improve crash readiness by large extent.

[jayded]

Originally Posted by Dr.Abhi

as per ACI review, baleno is approximately 100 kg lighter than similar engined swift which itself is structurally unstable as per global ncap crash test. Can anybody justify such a flimsy built on baleno which the maruti is retailing through so called premium Nexa. Or all the premiumness is only regarding leather sofas in customer lounge with hot coffees being served in premium ambience?? I was under the impression that maruti is targeting safety and quality concious customers through Nexa who are willing to pay. But selling structurally compromised cars like Baleno with so called more features for the sake of premiumness is too disgusting and very difficult to digest.

Lesser weight will not necessarily mean flimsier all the time. It depends on the tensile strength of the materials used and the crumple zones. It'll be surprising to know some sports cars weigh lesser than certain hatchbacks we drive around. Doesn't really mean that our cars are safer than those cars just because it weighs more. An Alfa Romeo 4C weighs a meagre 900 kgs, heck my Figo weighs more than that.

For a recent example, please check this link where Ford mentions how stronger material has been used in the Figo Aspire, but saved on weight as well.

http://www.india.ford.com/servlet/Sa...ller&site=FIPL

Not saying a light weight Maruti is safer here, but just saying it's a bit too early to judge just based on the kerb weight.

[WRXXX]

Originally Posted by chncar

I think it is a mistake to dismiss the importance of side/curtain airbags or consider them to be unnecessary. Sure, the front two airbags take priority over the side/curtain ones but a remarkable number of fatalities (and this is especially so in cities/urban locations with signals) take place when a someone/something crashes into the side of car. Unlike the front which has the engine and larger crumple zones to protect you, the side is very thinly armored on most cars and it takes much less force to create a bad accident.

Agreed and no arguments on whether two or six actually.

I think the point in discussion as noted is there will be compromises people have to make given situation and available choices.

For example think about it. This is a place of compromise always.
As we speak lot of cars in INDIA are missing
-well built structure
- knee airbags
- radar stop
- sonar
-AWD /ESP
-Driver monitor for drowsiness
-collision detection
-Night vision cameras

Where do you stop? Really,
Majority of backseat drivers even today don't wear seat belts so how effective is air bags for them?

I personally think safety is good, But its a compromise, no matter what you have.
However if it is mandated by law basic safety for our condition can be enforced and rest is choice of people

I will shut up now!

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by Dr.Abhi

as per ACI review, baleno is approximately 100 kg lighter than similar engined swift which itself is structurally unstable as per global ncap crash test. Can anybody justify such a flimsy built on baleno which the maruti is retailing through so called premium Nexa. Or all the premiumness is only regarding leather sofas in customer lounge with hot coffees being served in premium ambience?? I was under the impression that maruti is targeting safety and quality concious customers through Nexa who are willing to pay. But selling structurally compromised cars like Baleno with so called more features for the sake of premiumness is too disgusting and very difficult to digest.

You may read this thread from the day the car was showcased in Frankfurt and will find explanation of lesser weight.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Dr.Abhi

as per ACI review, baleno is approximately 100 kg lighter than similar engined swift which itself is structurally unstable as per global ncap crash test. Can anybody justify such a flimsy built on baleno which the maruti is retailing through so called premium Nexa. Or all the premiumness is only regarding leather sofas in customer lounge with hot coffees being served in premium ambience?? I was under the impression that maruti is targeting safety and quality concious customers through Nexa who are willing to pay. But selling structurally compromised cars like Baleno with so called more features for the sake of premiumness is too disgusting and very difficult to digest.

Weight is no indication of shell rigidity or crash safety. The Swift tested by the Global NCAP weighs the same as the one sold in the UK yet the one in UK features a more composed structural rigidity than severl more of its heavier competetion even against the backdrop of ENCAP's stricter test conditions.

I suppose the quality of steel used and key structural design implementations are lost when most manufacturers bring their sub 10 lakh rupee propositions to India.

The question we ought to ask is, if the Baleno for our market is being made using the same standards as the European one. I am confident that it will be just as safe as an i20 or Jazz. If it is made like how it is for 1st world countries, then it will surprise you for being even safer than heavier competition like the Polo, Punto etc.

Moral of the story: cars these days Japs/Korean or even India re: Tata are all just as safe as european or american cars designed in the same time, however the ethical principles a manufacturer undertakes varies based on the market. With shareholders to impress and annual reports that are forever expected to display growth. Remember VW equipped their cars with the ability to cheat emission tests to save about 5-10billion USD (honestly think they didn't have that plenty more cash lying around?) relatively less when you think that they will now have to spend 3 times that amount because of what they did. Greed is so deeply infused into the concept of mainstream success for companies of that scale, we all cannot make the mistake of thinking that we are doing business with our neighbor

[sunsetorange]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Weight is no indication of shell rigidity or crash safety. The Swift tested by the Global NCAP weighs the same as the one sold in the UK yet the one in UK features a more composed structural rigidity than severl more of its heavier competetion even against the backdrop of ENCAP's stricter test conditions.


The question we ought to ask is, if the Baleno for our market is being made using the same standards as the European one. I am confident that it will be just as safe as an i20 or Jazz. If it is made like how it is for 1st world countries, then it will surprise you for being even safer than heavier competition like the Polo, Punto etc.

Greed is so deeply infused into the concept of mainstream success for companies of that scale, we all cannot make the mistake of thinking that we are doing business with our neighbor

You contradict yourself!

When the Swift sold in the UK scores more than the one sold in India, how can you assume that the Baleno would be as safe as the JAZZ and the i20?

When the CEO of Maruti says that airbags are overrated, you get the idea what safety measures mean to them.

Why don't one of the bigger magazines buy a car off the shelf and conduct a crash test just to prove the safety aspect? ?

[prakhar1998]

Originally Posted by Ashir

I am sure they are not going to compromise on quality. People are well aware these days.

Do you really think we can trust manufactures these days? Don't forget that Maruti is the same company that insisted not to invoke the new legislation regarding the Indian NCAP. The Swift too was launched as a "premium" hatchback back in the day, just look at it crumble in the GNCAP test. People are completely unaware today. The Indian manufacturers lobby is so strong, they don't let the government leak out their darkest secrets. We as consumers have no eyes or ears.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

The question we ought to ask is, if the Baleno for our market is being made using the same standards as the European one. I am confident that it will be just as safe as an i20 or Jazz. If it is made like how it is for 1st world countries, then it will surprise you for being even safer than heavier competition like the Polo, Punto etc.

Are you aware that the Indian made i10 Grand failed Latin NCAP crash tests as its structure was unstable? Grand i10 got 4 stars in UK.

The i20 and Jazz cannot be yet termed as safe. However, you may call a Polo or a Figo safe as they have proven their part. They passed the crash tests as their structure was stable.

Its high time we blindly believe these manufacturers, or simply give the benefit of doubt to them. The fact that the doubt exists saddens me. Extremely eager for the Indian crash tests to start.

[Ashir]

Originally Posted by prakhar1998

Do you really think we can trust manufactures these days? Don't forget that Maruti is the same company that insisted not to invoke the new legislation regarding the Indian NCAP. The Swift too was launched as a "premium" hatchback back in the day, just look at it crumble in the GNCAP test. People are completely unaware today. The Indian manufacturers lobby is so strong, they don't let the government leak out their darkest secrets. We as consumers have no eyes or ears.

When anyone go and buy S Cross or Ciaz, does the same question come to their mind as a decisive factor ? Does any of the customer knows if they are structurally stable ?

Forget Maruti, is anyone 100% sure that Creta has good crash readiness ?

But yet we speak that these cars have good quality. Panel gaps, panel local strengths, plastic quality, etc. And I used the word quality for the same factors.

Please don't mix quality and safety.

Safety depends on design, and quality is how much close to the design you can get.

And regarding the consumer awareness, if, for example, there are numerous reports of doors being stuck in Alto , or the exterior panel having lot of orange peel defect in Swift, I don't think these cars are going to sell even a fraction of what they are sold now. So, Maruti does have to maintain quality if they want to continue selling numbers.

What I meant in previous post was that if Baleno is a NEXA product, Maruti is going to give extra care to the quality.

Regarding safety enough have been said already. And my views are no different.

[The Rationalist]

The Baleno weighs 890 kg and it's safer car than similar cars! Before making such statements do anyone have any substantiating proof for that? If not please refrain from extolling virtues, because it's as good as hearsay. Maybe Baleno is a very safe car, but let us wait till an Indian version gets crash tested. Feeling upset that members of an elite forum are fighting baselessly for Baleno, Maruti is not doing us a favour by selling cars. Unless a car gets tested whatever a manufacturer says should be taken with a bucket full of salt, be it Maruti, Hyundai, Ford or even the German biggies. In another ten years the cars of this segment may get shaved off another 200 kgs and would weigh as much a Kwid at 660 kg, how many of us would buy a Baleno that weighs as much as a Kwid simply because the manufacturer says it is safe?

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by sunsetorange

You contradict yourself!

When the Swift sold in the UK scores more than the one sold in India, how can you assume that the Baleno would be as safe as the JAZZ and the i20?

When the CEO of Maruti says that airbags are overrated, you get the idea what safety measures mean to them.

Why don't one of the bigger magazines buy a car off the shelf and conduct a crash test just to prove the safety aspect? ?

Well perhaps I worded it wrong. Sorry I've been up all night working on a few projects.

Do you honestly believe that the Jazz and i20 are built any better than the Swift here in India? The i20 sold in India is loads lighter than the international one and Honda's quality in recent times has been lost. Having seen many examples of crashed cars, in my judgement the i20 and Jazz sold in India are bound to fail global ncap tests and end up with the same score as the Swift. In my experience, only the europeans and americans maintain a certain standard in terms of safety with the car being roughly the same as what they offer in more developed markets. What I meant to say is that the Baleno will definitely perform equally as unimpressively as the i20 or Jazz whether it is as good as european and american offerings here in india, remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by prakhar1998

Are you aware that the Indian made i10 Grand failed Latin NCAP crash tests as its structure was unstable? Grand i10 got 4 stars in UK.

The i20 and Jazz cannot be yet termed as safe. However, you may call a Polo or a Figo safe as they have proven their part. They passed the crash tests as their structure was stable.

Yeah I am and there are tons of different cases pointing at the fact that manufacturers simply don't care, hence my comments.

Did not deem then safe all I said was that I am sure the Baleno will atleast be built upto the same standards as the i20 and Jazz

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

The Baleno weighs 890 kg and it's safer car than similar cars! how many of us would buy a Baleno that weighs as much as a Kwid simply because the manufacturer says it is safe?

Baleno is to be sold in different countries and will be crash tested by Euro NCAP.
Since India too will be moving to having safety norms in 2017, we will await the results then. There will be no reason I guess for having a different chassis for the Indian version, since Baleno is manufactured and exported under ' MADE IN INDIA'.

Suzuki's latest test in Euro NCAP and achieving 5 Star rating on the New Vitara is an indication of the new platform using low weight material but enhancing its structural rigidity and properties.

In summary we should not speculate something that is not proven and can start the 'safety concerns' once the results are declared.

[The Rationalist]

Originally Posted by volkman10

There will be no reason I guess for having a different chassis for the Indian version, since Baleno is manufactured and exported
Suzuki's latest test in Euro NCAP and achieving 5 Star rating on the New Vitara is an indication of the new platform using low weight material but enhancing its structural rigidity and properties.
In summary we should not speculate something that is not proven and can start the 'safety concerns' once the results are declared.

I didn't speculate anything, I just requested to hold your horses till we have a crash test! The i20 exported from India scores high in crash test, what about the one sold here? I would be happy to see if the Baleno sold in India( not the one exported) comes out in flying colours in crash tests. I don't want to fight over something if people are hell bound to believe what they think is right. I don't believe anything without substantial evidence, maybe that's just me. All are free to hold onto their rigid views. Now I should wait for 9.30 and buy few shares of MSIL, because if our forum has such ideas, imagine the public! Last post on this from my side, spare me.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by The Rationalist

The Baleno weighs 890 kg and it's safer car than similar cars! Before making such statements do anyone have any substantiating proof for that? If not please refrain from extolling virtues, because it's as good as hearsay. Maybe Baleno is a very safe car, but let us wait till an Indian version gets crash tested. Feeling upset that members of an elite forum are fighting baselessly for Baleno, Maruti is not doing us a favour by selling cars. Unless a car gets tested whatever a manufacturer says should be taken with a bucket full of salt, be it Maruti, Hyundai, Ford or even the German biggies. In another ten years the cars of this segment may get shaved off another 200 kgs and would weigh as much a Kwid at 660 kg, how many of us would buy a Baleno that weighs as much as a Kwid simply because the manufacturer says it is safe?

Do you have anything substantial to say that the Baleno isn't safe except for your doubts after knowing its weight?

If not, please stop posting wrong views on a product you are simply not interested in. If and When you have some proof that the Baleno isn't good as the manufacturer claims it is, you can blow the safety horn loud and clear.

Until then, let's give safety concerns a back seat for the time being.

[Dr.Abhi]

Originally Posted by Ashir

Well, I can't say 100% if Baleno is structurally stable than Swift or not, and no one can unless tested. But I am sure being light does not always mean losing on quality and safety. The Baleno is made on a new platform. And with the evolution of technology and experience, the next gen platforms ARE lighter and structurally better. Moreover, if it is going to sell under NEXA, I am sure they are not going to compromise on quality. People are well aware these days.

Also, since the new safety standards are on their way, there is a little or no point in launching a new vehicle without keeping those standards in mind. In facelifts, the cost is marginally increased which won't be able to take care of the increased cost to improve crash readiness by large extent.

then why s cross is being spared from such high tech steel which is powered by same engine and weighs 1200 kgs?? now you will say that it's segment apart and s cross is 30 cm lengthier than baleno. but my argument is when compact sedans which are 20-30 cms lenghthier than their hatch counterpart weigh only 10-20 kgs more than why there is 300 kgs of weight difference between baleno and s cross? either s cross steel is low grade or balenos structure is weak??