[911er]

Originally Posted by Living2Drive

Fellow Bhipians, my friends 4 year old Thar started developing rust on wind shield corners and doors, the service guys have refused to consider it as quality issue. Just wanted to know has any one had similar issue.

yes, it's a pretty common problem. It's mostly surface rust. More than the body, my Thar is rusting everywhere which is powder coated. I just sand the area and paint over it. Depending on the area, it's Asian paints black paint or black spray paint.

Originally Posted by barcode

Thanks Tom. What would you rate as expensive? Since the "electronics" lol are fairly rudimentary, I didn't think it would have been. Any thoughts?

The dashboard for the outgoing Thar is for Rs.10k. Even 2x for the incoming version means 20k.

Front wiring harness and wires kit for modern cars are in the 20k range.

Labour, nuts, steering etc for another 10-15k.

Okay, I got to stop! I just reached my 50k budget.

I'd suggest you wait it out a little. The new Thar spares and accessories aren't being sold in the market yet and getting these things done in the ASC costs twice as much. I'd inquired about a soft top last week and G3 Motors quoted me ₹20,000 + ₹2,000 for installation. Atlas Motors quoted me ₹11,000 for the same soft top (the old one).

[BlackPearl]

Hi Johy, I have no idea about the hard tops, so did not reply on those points. For the others, please find my answers in-line

Originally Posted by johy

1) Is there any improvement in the braking compared to the earlier model? If not, what is the best and easily available upgrade which can be done?

I have a 2014 model, did not find any difference in braking prowess

8) Are arm rests available for both front seats?

Yes, as far as I remember

9) The new Thar again seems to ride a bit better. Could be the wider size. So does it need any suspension upgrade (not going to off-road, only rough road).

Yes, found the ride quality to better than mine but as I have told earlier I am not sure if tyre pressure was correct. What do you mean by wider? Is the new Thar wider than the previous one except due to those larger wheel flares?

10) Tyre change? Again, if not off-roading, but rough roads, is it really needed? Then again, which tyre would help with the ride quality?

I had installed 15" tyres from the Bolero and found the ride quality to be marginally improved on my Thar. You can consider that but BD will run after you I have reverted to 16" though.

[mukul32]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

You'll have to look very hard to find that lot - 99% of Defenders sold had a diesel engine. Very few numbers were made with the 3.9 Disco engine (and badged 4.0) for the North American Market, dubbed the NAS (North American Spec) Defender.

First of all, sorry for the late reply. And I didn't mean to mention numbers. What I wanted to say was that even a Defender, one of the best off-roaders ever, can run on petrol, and do justice to its ability. In essence, an SUV can be petrol as well.
It was quite obvious that on an old and utilitarian vehicle like the Defender, diesel sales would far outnumber the petrol sales. Anyways, thanks for the better detail and exact numbers.

Why? Because they have Mahindra in their name?

Why so? Because it doesn't have Mahindra in the name?

Name? I never said anything about the name. Neither do I know why you Sir felt I judge cars by names or brands.
What is important here is that Mahindra always defined themselves with SUV's, unlike how Hyundai or Ford are doing here. All of their cars save for the Xylo and Quanto have 4WD at least as an option offered in one or more variants. And these 4WD variants are the ones they always market and show the people. Not the 2WD ones.
Save for the monocoque XUV (which also actually won off road rallies, by the way) all their models are based on ladder chassis, and are famous for tackling our horrible roads with aplomb even in 2WD spec. Even the new TUV doesn't make excuses of price or size for being a proper SUV (regardless of how boxy it looks). And its own 4WD version is in the pipeline as well. And it is considerably cheaper than both EcoSport and Creta.
Mahindra also created the Thar purely for the off-road junkies, despite the fact that it wouldn't sell a fraction of what the Scorpio or Bolero would sell.
Also, Mahindra has active participation in adventure motorsports, and holds Great Escape events to showcase the off-road credentials of their vehicles.

On the other hand, if you look at Ford or Hyundai, their 'SUV's' are FWD only, and more importantly car-based, without any off-road credentials. Thus they can only show their cars as having 'X' feature, or advertise them by fuel efficiency figures, or styling, or something like that. More like family cars, not SUV's. They cannot show any off-road ability, or heavy duty load carrying ability, for there simply isn't any.
In fact, they are not even actually targeting people who want SUV's. They are targeting people who want a car that feels like an SUV. Hence the intentional car underpinnings and car-like interiors and road behaviour.

Just for an idea, have a look at the official Creta (

https://youtu.be/9ypxRGSrS-k

) and Ecosport (

https://youtu.be/cRXGPpepR_M

) TVC's, and then the official Scorpio TVC (

https://youtu.be/HvZHXclEj-Q

), to better understand what I am trying to say.

(Please note that I don't mean to say that the ads are proof of the abilities or SUV pretensions of any vehicle, or that vehicles should be defined by their ads. However, what they do show quite clearly is the vision of the company behind the product, and its intended application, its role in the market and target customer.)

How many of the aforementioned Mahindras sold were 4x4? Probably significantly less in percentage terms than the petrol Defenders if you remove defence sales. All are heavy (and in the case of the Bolero, grossly underpowered) 2WDs mostly, and if am not mistaken the Scorpio's GC is less than that in the Duster and the Creta (probably the S-cross too, though unsure) too.

IMHO none of the above deserve the SUV tag. The ancient ones are MUVs and the newer ones qualify for Crossover (with 4wd) or CUV (without any 4wd pretensions) status.

Why is a heavy, outdated and often shoddily built 2WD vehicle with poor GC and lower power/torque to weight fit to be called an SUV over lighter, more powerful and higher 2WD vehicles that are more modern and offer more value for the money you pay?

Sorry Sir, but you seem to have failed to understand the fact that I was speaking of Mahindras as they are made, not as they are sold. A vehicle cannot be defined by how it is sold. It depends on the market, not the manufacturer. Mahindra, as I said earlier, always advertise and showcase the 4WD adventure-oriented variants of their vehicles. They would have wanted everyone to buy 4WD's if it were in their hands. It is the people that are buying the 2WD's, and if others are making money with them, there's no reason Mahindra should stay behind.

Let's consider this- Almost all S-Classes or A8's, or the likes sold here are base diesel, having engines shared with cars one or two segments below them, and not the flagship petrol their companies proudly offer. So by your logic, they don't deserve the 'luxury car' status, and should instead be defined and looked at as something like 'underpowered, overrated diesel barges'. Doesn't sound quite right, does it?

And I don't get what you mean by 'being fit to be called an SUV'.So, according to what you say, an SUV should be stylish, powerful, efficient, and value for money, (which is alright) as opposed to, or at the cost of, being torquey, rugged or utilitarian (which is not at all right). Your definition of an SUV sounds slightly wrong here. What you are indicating to, are crossovers, not SUV's. Real SUV's always give preference to off-road ability or raw utility over other factors like styling, comfort or ergonomics. Maybe that's why the media always crib about impracticality after driving some of the best off-roaders out there, right from a Gypsy to a G-Wagen.

And higher GC or torque figure on paper means nothing if it doesn't translate to any off-road ability. That depends upon a lot of other factors - torque curve, approach and departure angles, gear ratios, axle articulation, grip levels across terrains, etc.
Even the SX4 sedan was modern, fast, powerful and rode really high. But it doesn't necessarily become fit to be called a 'perfect SUV'.

When performance and reliability are critical, most people plonk their money on a Toyota. Unless you're Brit, in which case you'd go with an LR - which for all its faults is virtually indestructible and easily serviceable.

Why? Because they have Toyota in their name?
Cheers! :thumbup:

[PS: Again, I don't work for Mahindra, nor am I related to them in any way, because my location (Nashik) may lead some into believing that way, and I don't have a grudge against the CUV's either.]

[Shubhendra]

Thought to pen down my observation with new Thar, which I used for two days while making trail for our event. It was brand new vehicle, did only few hundred kilometers with everything stock.

Interior: while outgoing Thar had mixed interior of Jeep and bolero with addition of AC. New Thar’s interior is way better, steering feels good to hold with effective AC. Dashboard is well illuminated but all these dials have become smaller and separate which would require some time to get used to. I am not sure how many people would love beige interior but definitely not me. After two days of offroading and when second day it was pouring throughout the day, beige interior started getting dirty.

Exterior: while in pictures it may look like huge change to exterior but in person its not like that. Change in front bumper is not as pronounced as it looks in picture and same with rear. Because of wheel arches OE tyres look punny but again boon to people who would upgrade to broader ones. NVH in new Thar is almost same as old Thar

Mechanical: Eaton’s MLD is very effective and for a comparison we drove old and new version to rock filled incline and MLD did work and new Thar completed the incline with less trouble (though both the Thar’s struggled to climb where other Jeeps were going smoothly). I tried new Thar in multiple obstacles and performance was almost same with only benefit of MLD in some scenarios.

I am not sure on price increase Mahindra did with new Thar as I am not a prospective buyer of Thar and I never bothered to check price of Thar. I got the opportunity to test two Thar’s (old and new) back to back in same terrain over two days thus thought to share my inputs.
Whatever people say about Mahindra killing Thar, at least they are providing a vehicle which looks like Jeep and with bit of tweaking on cosmetics can be made to look like JEEP.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh

[asingh1977]

Visited two showrooms in Gurgaon. GSP Motors and Sterling. Both did not even have a Thar on display. GSP initially said it is "outside"; then said it has gone to the factory. End of story. Sterling is saying they can take me to the PDI unit where they have a delivery Thar standing. I can check it out in the flesh, of course I will not be able to test drive it. I did not even ask, did not want to sound unethical, by requesting a test drive on an already paid for vehicle.

I did test drive the new Scorpio and XUV though..!

[BlackPearl]

Originally Posted by Shubhendra

though both the Thar’s struggled to climb where other Jeeps were going smoothly

Could you please give some more details on why the Thar was struggling to climb where the Jeeps were going smoothly? Is it due to the turbo spooling late?

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Could you please give some more details on why the Thar was struggling to climb where the Jeeps were going smoothly? Is it due to the turbo spooling late?

Soft suspension and lack of torque at low RPMs, more rev and you turbo kicks in and tyres start spinning.
And specially rock crawling where you need torque at low RPMs and hard suspension, Thar suffers big time.

Regards,
Shubhendra Singh

[maheep007]

Hey guys returning here after a long time, so a warm hello to all
I gave the booking amount for Thar crde n expect it anytime after 15th October. Couple of questions to you all very knowledgeable members out here.
1.Should I wait little more time, like delay a month or so if any further new updates or improvements are expected?
2. I don't like over sized tyres n plan to retain stock tires, as over size tires other than aesthetics, in regular running don't do much good. However, if I do plan to upgrade just for cosmetics, but still don't want to alter its engineering or driving dynamics, should I go for one size up (245/70 r16) ht tires or same size (235/70 r16) AT tires. At tires purely to enhance its looks, same size keeping in mind not to alter too much company recommended size.
You guys are all quite experienced jeepers, I'm a novice in comparison to most of you. Although had a Bolero for 7 years which I recently sold to book the thar, still thought first hand experience is always the best. Thank you in advance, cheers !

[somitra1981]

Has any one tried removing and re fitting the canopy on the new Thar. There was a lot of buzz during pre launch period on how easy it would be going forward vis-à-vis the old model . However haven't seen that feature being stressed on during the promos and even in this review. Is there any significant improvement in the time and effort required for this in the new iteration ?

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by maheep007

Hey guys returning here after a long time, so a warm hello to all
I gave the booking amount for Thar crde n expect it anytime after 15th October. Couple of questions to you all very knowledgeable members out here.
1.Should I wait little more time, like delay a month or so if any further new updates or improvements are expected?
2. I don't like over sized tyres n plan to retain stock tires, as over size tires other than aesthetics, in regular running don't do much good. However, if I do plan to upgrade just for cosmetics, but still don't want to alter its engineering or driving dynamics, should I go for one size up (245/70 r16) ht tires or same size (235/70 r16) AT tires. At tires purely to enhance its looks, same size keeping in mind not to alter too much company recommended size.
You guys are all quite experienced jeepers, I'm a novice in comparison to most of you. Although had a Bolero for 7 years which I recently sold to book the thar, still thought first hand experience is always the best. Thank you in advance, cheers !

I'm in the market for a Thar too, and over the past few months I've been studying this vehicle extensively. However, I have no first hand ownership experience apart from driving the Thar in specific events.

1. No new upgrades are coming in the near term.
2. AT tyres are better than HT if you have mixed use (on-off road). If you plan to stick to the highways, HT is the better bet. But there are many tyres better than the stock Duelers, even in HT.
3. Upsize up to 255/65 is fine. Beyond this, parts may be stressed.
4. Facelifted Thar looks bad with the current tyres and rims. 8J rims improve the stance but spacers are a definite no-no.

Cheers,

Jay

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by somitra1981

Has any one tried removing and re fitting the canopy on the new Thar. There was a lot of buzz during pre launch period on how easy it would be going forward vis-à-vis the old model . However haven't seen that feature being stressed on during the promos and even in this review. Is there any significant improvement in the time and effort required for this in the new iteration ?

Even I'm interested to know this but couldn't really figure out when I drove the facelifted Thar. We really need a Wrangler style soft top on the Thar, which can be quickly dismantled in good weather.

Cheers,

Jay

[somitra1981]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

Even I'm interested to know this but couldn't really figure out when I drove the facelifted Thar. We really need a Wrangler style soft top on the Thar, which can be quickly dismantled in good weather.

Cheers,

Jay

+1

Even my wife is of the same opinion. When you think of a jeep that's one of the many firsts that come to your mind, wind in the hair experience (as Mahindra puts it), but yeah you only want to enjoy it as per your own convenience and not to bear the extreme weather we experience in our country. Doesn't look like Mahindra has taken a note of this though most of their inspiration seems to be coming from the Wrangler. I did ask the SA once at the showroom, but all he said was that it's easier than before due to the 16 velcros which hold the canopy to the frame, but didn't seem that easy looking at the canopy in person though.

Best Regards,

Somitra

[maheep007]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

I'm in the market for a Thar too, and over the past few months I've been studying this vehicle extensively. However, I have no first hand ownership experience apart from driving the Thar in specific events.

1. No new upgrades are coming in the near term.
2. AT tyres are better than HT if you have mixed use (on-off road). If you plan to stick to the highways, HT is the better bet. But there are many tyres better than the stock Duelers, even in HT.
3. Upsize up to 255/65 is fine. Beyond this, parts may be stressed.
4. Facelifted Thar looks bad with the current tyres and rims. 8J rims improve the stance but spacers are a definite no-no.

Cheers,

Jay

Hi thank you for the quick revert. Same here, wanted to buy it years ago, but lack of basic amenities made no sense in buying it, and it was exactly priced cheap. But now, things are different. Interior is spruced up n livable along with an ac so finally booked it.
255 is little too wide for my taste n age, just double minded about at or ht tires. Although ht makes sense but heart says bigger thread of at

Originally Posted by somitra1981

Has any one tried removing and re fitting the canopy on the new Thar. There was a lot of buzz during pre launch period on how easy it would be going forward vis-à-vis the old model . However haven't seen that feature being stressed on during the promos and even in this review. Is there any significant improvement in the time and effort required for this in the new iteration ?

Supposedly its a 10 min job according to show room guys. Just held in place by Velcro

I like the soft top as of now, gives it the jeep character. Can be removed with ease if n when required when u wish to feel the air in nice weather. So as of now don't plan to go for hard top. Maybe in future if its practically not feasible .....
However I do want to go for forward facing rear seats, so that people in the back don't feel uncomfortable. Let's see, lot on mind, ground realities once I actually get it n go for the changes.

[Tanmay K]

Originally Posted by maheep007

However I do want to go for forward facing rear seats, so that people in the back don't feel uncomfortable.

They are indeed uncomfortable. And unsafe.

I found it strange how the CMVR requirements made Mahindra come up with this new (and to a few of us, unattractive) bumper design on the Thar, but there are still no mandatory seat belts laws for the passengers in the rear.

Technically the vehicle is supposed to be a 7-seater, but given how the rear seats are side facing, to me it is just a 2-seater with the rear section only good for carrying any luggage you might have.

Not having ABS and airbags seems acceptable in the Indian car market, but the lack of seat belts for the rear passengers is taking it to another level.

[maheep007]

Gossip was about m hawk engine in Thar, hence I asked. Didn't want to end up buying current version to realise soon after that newer one is on the way.