[KreativeGeek]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

We have fan boys for all the brands on the forum. I would go to the extent of telling that barring the mods, almost all members are fan boys of one or the other brands.

All I ask for though is the same yard stick to evaluate all the brands. From the Baleno thread, it seems like Maruti has to go the extra mile to please a few while some other manufacturers are still living off their old glory days although they clearly have bought the levels down in terms of premiumness.

Either way this is way OT. Just wanted to put my opinion in after seeing the last few pages of the yet to be release Baleno thread and this one.

That's rightly put forth, fan boys are going to prevail but being overtly critical of other cars/brands Or always showering praises for personal favorites is something I know is not encouraged on this forum, A fair amount of excitement/passion is always welcome. Nevertheless do not want to steer this thread further on this topic

[avdhesh15]

I also agree on this point. But I believe this is what the challenge is for Maruti right? These reactions are coming only because of the launch of NEXA and trying to go premium whereas Maruti is supposed to be an affordable brand. Even when the Ciaz was launched, there were no such comments because there was no "premiumness" at the time.

I hope over time Maruti figures this out based on market feedback and either is able to totally bifurcate MS and NEXA or gets back to a single window under MS. I believe NEXA is the wrong move and they should be back under a single window.

[GTO]

Mod Note: Strictly no off-topic posts please. If you have an issue with any member's post, please use the 'report this post to a Moderator' functionality and we'll look into it.

Thanks!

[Swapnil4585]

Rating the thread a full 5 stars.

At the outset, I'm happy to see Tata registering a growth in their bread Indica and Vista, and butter Zest, Bolt, Nano and Storme. I expect that these buyers are kept happy while leaving the service centers. I'd wish Tata give some attendance to the Movus. It is one capable UV for dealing with the Bolero and I don't think for a reason as to why it can't add up another 1,500 units to the tally.

Toyota, the righteous manufacturer, puts up a month-on-month growth on all their cars except the Corolla and Liva. An 8% decrease in Liva numbers means the Sportivo contribution wasn't too big. An engine upgrade to the Corolla is a must, I think. That would be a better differentiation from the Etios.

Ford is one manufacturer of the minuscule lot of the European and American manufacturers fighting to get a share, that actually looks committed to the market. The Aspire and Figo are an example to that. Withdrawing the Fiesta doubles was a good business decision, though not liked by enthusiasts. The Ecosport should fill that void. Having a C2 sedan and a wannabe SUV in your arsenal is not a prudent business, I believe (just ask the Creta and Verna). The up and coming Endeavor has upped the prospects of being the true competition to the almighty Fortuner.

Looking at the sales figures of some crash test failures, I can only sigh in disbelief.

[dark.knight]

Originally Posted by GTO

Can we please not overdo the safety thing on entirely unrelated threads? The Omni offers you the maximum sq ft for the buck. It is one heck of a commercial vehicle.

Are rickshaws safe? Is the Tata Ace safe? What safer alternative is there to the Omni in the same price range & with similar cargo capacity?

I couldn't have agreed more, however I held back from sharing a similar opinion for a more suitable time. Bottom-line is there are all sorts of vehicles, 2-wheelers, 4 wheelers & 3 wheelers. If safety is the absolute then 2 & 3 wheelers must completely be abolished, but that is anything but logical. Each person afterall must travel with unique budgetary constraints.

Also I know many people having different vehicles in their garage, one having an Omni & a Ford Ecosport, one traded in an Octavia for an Etios, one having a Maruti 800 & Scorpio. In the end its personal choice which cannot be dissected by anyone. As you said Omni is a favourite for luggage/parcel/courier companies and no car comes close to that utility at that price range. As far as safety goes I've even seen people buy entry-level European cars and then take their bike for work 6 days of the week.

Safety is necessary, no one argues there but even in Europe people drive around in 40-50 year old restored classic cars with no safety features whatsoever (like vintage Beetle, Mini Moke, Jeep etc), what's to say an incident wont happen in those vehicles? Since affordability is a serious issue here in India I think all opinions of safety must be reserved for only oneself during the time of purchase of a new car, otherwise it becomes overplayed.

[Cruiser_D]

It is quite impressive to see that Mahindra has managed a decent figure as per Sep 15 records. They are almost close to Honda. Thanks for the introduction of TUV 300!

But I have apprehensions on how badly it would impact the sales of Bolero in the coming days. Despite Bolero coming under the utility segment and TUV being a C segment, I have a gut feeling that the latter would get targeted by the same crowd (at least some percentage of that crowd) who were longing for the former one until now.

Bolero has remained a successful product for Mahindra for past several years and if it continues the same run, I believe Mahindra will see some good times ahead, with Scorpio and XUV500 keeping their figures intact along with new TUV300 market.

Way to go Mahindra. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[sadsack]

The desire to be a pundit and analyse markets and products is something that I once looked down upon, and I still do but unfortunately I have fallen for the charms of armchair analysis. Sometimes it is simply irresistible, despite being aware of one's own biases. Somebody said except for the Moderators, everybody here is a fan-boy of some brand or the other. I think the moderators are also fan-boys who have controlled their fan-boy urges while making posts, but I would argue that it is in all of us to be fan-boys of brands.

Before somebody decides to delete the post on the basis of irrelevance let me explain why I harped on the fan-boy bit. The fan-boy is not a uni-faceted being. The fan-boy has the other side of him which makes him run down products of brands that do not appeal to him or in some instances when they come close to overtaking the numbers of the products of the brand of which one is a fan-boy. Many brands that are trying to build themselves in the Indian market fall prey to the perpetrations of opinions of the fan-boys.

Best example, the Tata Nano. It became a victim of all kinds of things from the machinations of Didi to the fan-boys of the Dada of all brands running it down. Of course, the company itself did very little to promote it, treating it like it was one of their truck models which only had one single competitor. Then they took the cute kitten and made it look like a Tiger, an Elephant and all sorts of unbelievable things but the product has persisted and I am glad to see that its numbers are picking up again and it is Tata's single largest selling car (the Indica/Vista numbers are clubbing of two models) beating the Bolt and the Zest, themselves victims of internet propaganda that turns into the most powerful of marketing tools; word of mouth. I have seen an old aunty who probably did not know a thing about cars waxing eloquent about how the Nano is a coffin that incinerates people while they are still alive. I have also seen my friends 5 year old son saying that he will never travel with his father if he buys any Tata cars.

But my heart really goes out for the Renault-Nissan Alliance whose Chief Carlos Ghosn is such a believer in the Indian way of doing things. He coined that frugal engineering term looking at the way Indians practised thrift. He was let down by Bajaj Auto first with that contraption called the RE 60, which Rajiv Bajaj at least admitted to it being a quadricycle. The Datsun brand was launched in India because of the belief that Indians would appreciate the low cost which was a result of frugal engineering. It was taken to the Global NCAP and trashed by the vengeful Mr. Max Mosley who had old scores to settle with Ghosn. That the Swift also scored the same numbers was soon forgotten as was the fact that most Indian cars found it difficult to go beyond zero which we contributed as a natural and rational number. Curtains then for the Datsun brand and its products which I found okay when I drove them.

We may want to compare ourselves with developed countries and their test standards and that is nothing but a false sense of entitlement that this generation of Indians have. Older people like me worked for 25 years to get to a salary of Rs. 1 lakh as salary, while many youngsters start somewhere around that figure if they have studied well, but they too are not a majority. It is probably a rubbing off of the feel good factor, that the successful enjoy.
So now we have the Kwid, a seemingly good product. But Renault has made a litany of mistakes like brand engineering with Nissan and our new found liking for "safe" cars is probably going to kill it. I am also intrigued by the fact that some of the successful cars like the Indian Honda City, the Toyota Etios, and the Maruti Alto, Wagon R etc don't seem to have taken the NCAP test and even if they did we seem to have forgotten the score which would most certainly be zero. My appeal fanboys please praise your favourite brands but don't run other brands down. And do not circulate opinions that are not well informed and those which are not your own.

Mods: Is this post irrelevant here? I thought it best to put it here since this is where opinions circulate freely without too much resistance. If you are leaving it here, thanks in advance.

[Nagesh Bhatt]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

You forgot Verna's sales performance will making above statement. It is a pain to see such a good looking car not showing any presence in the sales chart.

It is interesting to note that Bolero and TUV's combined sales is similar to Bolero's pre-April figures.

Couldn't agree with you more !

I am a very recent buyer of the new Verna 4S ( Aug 2015) & have absolutely no regrets on my purchase ! It's a fantastic looking car according to me & is a very able performer amongst the C2 class of vehicles.

However efforts of Hyundai must be appreciated here on manufacturing a breathtaking looking marvel in the form of Creta. The same Verna engine does the rounds here but they have taken it to an altogether different territory & are reaping the fruits thus.

Originally Posted by avisidhu

I did notice. But presumably Verna is being cannibalized by the Creta, and by all accounts must be delivering higher margins for Hyundai in the process. Seven thousand units in this price category is not easy, it must be a situation Hyundai would be happy to live with as long as customers stay within the same roof.

You have nailed the point perfectly.

Whenever you spot a Creta you have to look twice to make sure it's not a "Santa Fe". With the Verna engine (1.6) doing the duty in the Creta, Hyundai have upped the ante considerably & the models are at the least at a 1.5L/ 2.0L premium over the Verna & hence yielding them decent margins.

This is astute marketing if nothing else.

[5kmiles]

Originally Posted by Whichcarnow

They should up the ante in the safety department(which they have started, but why not bring 7 airbags in the top model like they have EVERYWHERE ELSE). They have to bring in new engines. China gets 1.4 boosterjet we don't. For all the "importance to India" by launching Baleno in India first, why no 1.0 boosterjet here.

The point I'm trying to make is that they are clearly losing in the segment that matters, where the growth is. they are AWARE of this They have to up their game now which they can quite easily. I don't understand the lethargy and reluctance then. I mean just look at Baleno. With that kerb weight, just imagine the performance with 90 bhp diesel and 110 bhp Boosterjet with a relatively minimal price shock. Atleast in the top models!!!

This is true for all brands in India. Toyota launches new products one year after global launch giving reasons that make little sense, Honda City looks very different in other markets, Ford will launch a chopped down version of Endeavour soon compared even to SE Asian markets, rarely any car gets ESP here, ISOFIX seats are missing, am sure sheet metal is thinner for cars here and heavier for export even if manufactured in same plant, tyres on almost every other car are under-specced, disc brakes all around is a rarity, VW does not offer same gearbox warranties (maybe quality here is shoddier), quality of paint/sheet metal varies dramatically with some cars famous for getting dings from almost anything etc. etc. Bottom line is that we all are being royally messed up the manufacturers. Hyundai just increased prices of Creata by 20K. How's that?

[jetti]

Interesting numbers as always.
All those calling the S-Cross a flop should remember that they sold 3603 of these which is more than the entire production of each of these companies

• Volkswagen
• Renault
• Nissan + Datsun
• Skoda

and of course FIAT
And all these sales from a fraction of Maruti's total sales network (NEXA).

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by jetti

Interesting numbers as always.
All those calling the S-Cross a flop should remember that they sold 3603 of these which is more than the entire production of each of these companies

• Volkswagen
• Renault
• Nissan + Datsun
• Skoda

and of course FIAT
And all these sales from a fraction of Maruti's total sales network (NEXA).

Agree with you mate. S-cross can deliver decent numbers for Maruti I guess. Even if Maruti sells around 3k per month, I guess its good for them. With launch of Baleno, I can see more and more people visiting Nexa showrooms. It will surely help S-cross along with discounts from Maruti. Hopefully Maruti will be opening more Nexa showrooms in coming months, that will help sell S-cross more as well. Personally I don't feel S-cross 200 is costly and is a good buy in today's market. With some discounts, it makes deal more sweeter.

[vkivaturi]

Creta is the massive success story among recent new launches. Numbers of S-Cross (3,603) and Jazz (4,762) for September may look respectable in absolute terms. What will be worrisome for their respective manufacturers is the downward trend compared to August. S-Cross dropped by 21% and Jazz is down 12%. Lets see if the festival month of October helps resurrect these numbers, else these 2 models are heading straight to a ~1,000 monthly sale figure pretty soon.

[ubermeow]

Originally Posted by shobhitk

I bought a Ritz ZDI about 1 years back. I have enjoyed driving this extremely wonderful car with its amazing 1.3 diesel engine and very comfortable seats.
=======
Despite step motherly treatment by Maruti, Ritz is running neck to neck to Liva + Liva Cross and Polo. Indecently Polo has just been in news in the backdrop of emission issues. Now the trend is to buy feature rich cars. I am sure that upgraded Ritz with much needed favour from Maruti show rooms will ensure that its sale picks up gradually. A wonderful, spacious and dependable car like Ritz definitely needs to be around for many more years to come.

Yes, no doubt if one needs a funky and spacious hatch, Ritz is the right car. I have been driving my Ritz petrol for the last 5 years and believe me I have a trouble finding a suitable replacement for it. I have been looking for a new car for the past 1 year but cannot decide because of the spaciousness and ease of driving and driving position that Ritz offers. There's no denying that this TALL BOY is the complete package, almost to the point of being addictive, but why is MS not attending to this segment?

A perfect spacious tall boy hatch like Ritz should easily sell in the thousands, if only the manufacturer has the intent.