[nkrishnap]

Cant call it a good move. The implementation is going to happen 5 years down the line. They need to get rid of the old smoking trucks and commercial vehicles to ensure the air quality is bettered until the Euro VI is implemented.

PS: A thread is already running with the discussion on the same topic here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...v-skipped.html

[vinit.merchant]

Originally Posted by aneeshtn

Pardon my ignorance here. I have a question, what would happen to the vehicles which would be purchase before the BS-VI implementation? Will those have to be converted to it? If not, will those vehicles run fine with the fuel standards at that time?

Could there be a policy to take those vehicles off the road once the new standards come in? Just few doubts.

Nothing happens to them. They can handle better fuel quality, just like BS I, II & III cars are running on BS III & IV fuel. No worries there. BS VI cars should have problem with lower BS fuel, and not the other way round.

And no, there is no policy in place to take older BS cars off the road when newer ones come into play. And there will be none in future. But in places like Delhi, diesel vehicles 10+ & Petrol 15+ years old have been banned. Nothing can be foreseen about such policies taken by knee jerk reactions.

[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

...
...
“It requires an investment of at least Rs 2,500 crore to upgrade one particular refinery in order to produce superior fuel. If we do that, our margins are going to take a hit. So, who will compensate for that?” Indian Express quoted a senior Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Ltd executive as saying.

Another 0.5% cess in the making, to fund this upgrade?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by nkrishnap

Cant call it a good move. The implementation is going to happen 5 years down the line. They need to get rid of the old smoking trucks and commercial vehicles to ensure the air quality is bettered until the Euro VI is implemented.

See point 3 of my post. Also, the last point about unofficial additives. If these (esp the last one) are addressed we can expect some improvement fast.

I am all for going to global standards. We cannot always lag behind. I will also suggest following the MH lead, reduce taxation on E s to near zero, cutting duties simultaneously.

Having information about the IITK report I had mentioned this quite some time back.

I have requested the threads be merged.

[StarScream]

One question in all this that is unclear to me. What happens to existing BS-4 cars, will they run fine on higher quality fuel?

Secondly, will they have to comply with new norms?

As far as BS-4 petrol-engined cars are concerned, will they need tweaks to comply? The reason I ask specific to petrol is because very little changes between Euro-4, -5, -6 for them, while it' a dramatic change in emissions for diesel.

[Pam81]

Originally Posted by RSR

Most of the country still adheres to the ancient BS-III. BS-IV is still being implemented in phases and will take a while before the entire country is covered. BS-IV may sound like the equivalent of Euro-IV, but it's not! One of the above mentioned cabals (possibly both) have had a hand in diluting Euro-IV norms to suit their own vested interests.

I won't be surprised if BS-VI turns out to be a hilarious joke compared to Euro-VI. The two cabals are perfectly capable of doing such a thing. Already, the pathetic mainstream media morons have begun parroting the rubbish uttered by their paymasters in the diesel lobby and the oil mafia, about how "difficult" and "tough" this planned move is going to be. Some third rate "journalists" are even regurgitating the nonsense fed to them, such as how the planned move of the government may lead to a sizeable "contraction" of the Indian automobile market.

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

It is a laudable move but i am circumspect. Oil companies have not been able to deliver BS4 compliant fuel pan india 6 years after it has been first introduced in metros on 1st April 2010.

Very apt way of putting the ground situation. Adultery is another biggest scam in many bunks. BS IV refinery budget has been ballooning inconsistently, 34K Crore investment cited as need in 2011 and now the oil marketing companies are saying they would need 80 K Crore for BS IV to be made available nationwide based on the news articles. When nationwide BS IV implementation itself very doubtful, I would definitely think BS VI in 2020 is, for sure only a dream and absolutely a joke!

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

So now they have to make it BS 6 compliant in 4 years time..umm

I feel one of the following 2, or maybe both, will happen

1) Either 2020 implementation will be restricted to a few cities and the rest of the country will still run on BS 4 (since BS 5 has been now scrapped) for many years after that. This will not be good for BS6 engines as well for environment since in the process these these cities will not even get BS 5 fuel and engines which they would have got otherwise.

If this scenario becomes true indeed, it will be disastrous for car makers and customers. BS VI demands DPF & SCR in Diesels as after-treatment devices. BS IV fuel in BS VI vehicle will choke the DPF within couple of hundred kilometers and you should clean it to avoid building excessive back-pressure in engine which is detrimental for turbo & valves springs in the engine. DPF cleaning is not an easy procedure. Exhaust gas temperature need to be raised to high level, this is done in service stations with a programmed engine operating cycle that increases the exhaust gas temperature by keeping the engine in certain revv band. Other option is the Engine Management ECU itself does this based on OBD II diagnostics but for that the highway cruise speed is mandatory. If it fails to do so, you will get a warning light in dashboard showing the filter is clogged and you have to go to service station to carry out the cleaning procedure. This is what followed in Europe.

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

2) BS 6 standards will be diluted to a large extent

It is only my wish & pray that this should never happen otherwise the purpose itself is lost and in reality we may have to look forward for BS VIII to match Euro 6.

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

What is required is a firm commitment from refiners that they will be able to provide BS 6 fuel pan india by end of 2019 itself which will be a tough ask considering the track record.

GOVT. should call for an Industry meeting prior to making it a law. They should maintain very tough & firm conduct and push SIAM (auto-body), Oil Marketing Companies and Component Manufacturers to begin development towards BS VI. That would definitely imbibe lots of seriousness in the Industry and in the market as well. If the industry is not echoing the same, then this will become another Indian dream and only a wish list of Govt.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by StarScream

One question in all this that is unclear to me.
1. What happens to existing BS-4 cars, will they run fine on higher quality fuel?

2. Secondly, will they have to comply with new norms?

3. As far as BS-4 petrol-engined cars are concerned, will they need tweaks to comply? The reason I ask specific to petrol is because very little changes between Euro-4, -5, -6 for them, while it' a dramatic change in emissions for diesel.

1. Nothing
2. No but there can be restrictions about registration in some places.
3. Even if you tweak it with the new ECU, CatCon etc it can at best be compliant and not certified.

Let me narrate my own experience with a Mr Rawat or was it Negi) of Honda. I bought my Civic it was 2010 when BS-IV came in. I talked to GM-Sales of the local dealer, and he talked to the area manager of Honda , and he told us that Civic BS-IV will be coming in May, so I sold my Accent, and planned to manage for a few weeks with just our Santro. Then Honda decided to launch from June 1 and I was stuck with my Santro for almost two months. When Mr Sahani the Dealer's GM came to me again and called up Mr Rawat he clean lied and said that he made no such statement. He was all the time yapping about compliance, both the first time, and again this time, which I told him counted for zilch - either you are BS-IV or not. Compliance cuts no ice.

Two other points - most of our HGVs with the exception on Tata Prima and Volvo's are still on BS-II.

The fuels pecs fully Euro-IV or an emancipated version will be decided by (laughable) a group of secretaries shortly. Our Oil PSUs have assured that they will be able to make the fuels, though I doubt since they cannot even supply the BS-IV diesel in adequate quantities to feed the 40 cities, nd buy Euro-V stuff from you know who, and then cut it to bring it down to BS-IV. afaik the IITK reco is full Euro-VI even if you have to import the fuels.

Who will bell the cat - stop sale of laced fuels!! Manjunath lost his life on this.

[Divya Sharan]

Bajaj says it can roll out BS VI compliant vehicles in 4 months.

Read here.

[hothatchaway]

What about the 2 wheeled segment, do they also currently meet BS IV in select metros and III elsewhere in the country?

Any major tweaks needed in this segment to meet BS VI considering all are petrol powered?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by Divya Sharan

Bajaj says it can roll out BS VI compliant vehicles in 4 months.

Then you may need a private supply line from RIL! BS-VI petrols vehicles are not a big issue.

Originally Posted by hothatchaway

What about the 2 wheeled segment, do they also currently meet BS IV in select metros and III elsewhere in the country?

Any major tweaks needed in this segment to meet BS VI considering all are petrol powered?

I presume they do. but for BS-VI they may all have to switch to Fuel Injection.

[S2!!!]

The Supreme Court of India has refused to advance the April 1, 2020 deadline for cars to adopt the BS-VI emission norms.

Amicus curiae - Harish Salve, told the Supreme Court that upgrading a diesel car to match the BS-VI emission norms would cost a manufacturer around Rs. 36,000 / per vehicle. Such a vehicle could be up to 82% less polluting. Salve's private study indicates that manufacturers would have to incur a cost of Rs. 15,800 per vehicle to make their vehicles BS-V compliant from BS-IV. However, by spending an additional Rs. 20,280, the diesel cars would be BS-VI compliant. BS-VI cars would have their injection pressure set between 1,800-2,100 bar and the cars would use more efficient diesel particulate filters. On the other hand, it would cost manufacturers merely Rs. 1,200 to conform BS-IV petrol vehicles to the BS-VI norms.

The benefits of switching to BS-VI include a reduction in particulate matter emissions by around 82% and NOx emissions by 68% in diesel cars and 25% reduced NOx from petrol cars.

In addition to car manufacturers, oil companies would have to incur a significant capital investment to ensure the fuel quality is BS-VI compliant.

The Government of India is planning to implement the BS-IV emission norms across India by April 2017. From April 2017, BS-IV norms will be enforced all over the country and only vehicles that comply with them will be allowed to be sold and registered.

Source: ET Auto

[abhishek46]

Welcome move by Supreme Court. Why do auto companies always try to delay measures which are good to mankind? Shame on them for focusing only on profits and zilch on responsibility towards the ecosystem!

[sgiitk]

I think the issue is with the refiners (ie OMCs). They are unable to even produce enough BS-IV diesel to supply the 40 odd cities, and end up buying Euro-V stuff from RIL and then diluting with their own BS-III stuff to bring it down to BS-IV. I hear most of the PSU refineries will have to extensively modified (euphemism for scrapped and replaced) to produce BS-VI stuff. I think the block is more in the fuel supply. I know on authority the IITK report says if need be import Diesel to meet Euro-VI. Are we heading towards Imports + RIL for VI level Diesel? I can almost hear cries of Ambani / Adani from the socialist lobby.

[Shuaib.am]

Automotive majors like Maruti and Mahindra will have to depend on companies like Bosch and Delphi to go from stage 4 to 5/6. Top guns in Bosch are sceptical about this as huge investments and work need to be there for a single emission jump. The design, development, validation, and optimization for BS V will run into atleast 4 years. Without achieving stage V and aiming for stage VI Skipping this would have serious implications on engine running quality.

[sgiitk]

Finally, the NGT has woken up about adulteration.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/50717543.cms

I hope this is done nationwide and there is prompt action, shut down, fine, arrest.