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Old 21st December 2018, 09:11   #151
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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Originally Posted by AirbusCapt View Post
Let's understand the technical aspects of BS4 versus BS6 before speculation and panic.
BS4 emmissions require 50ppm if sulphur emissions, BS6 require only 10 ppm of sulphur be emitted. Two ways of reduction one by adding an ammonia stage to the exhaust (adblue), the other is by filling up with low sulphur diesel.
The addition of an adblue kit is fairly simple, the problem lies when BS4 engines run on low sulphur BS6 diesel, this lack of sulphur causes scoring of injectors in the long run.
This is called Selective Catalytic Reduction System in Automobile industry, but the catalytic converters are sensitive to adulterated fuel. In Europe and Australia, for LPG cars additives are added through an external system to prevent the damage of valves from carbon deposits, similar technique with a suitable additive can be developed to prolong the use of BS IV vehicles.

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Old 21st December 2018, 10:08   #152
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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My bad. I think i misunderstood. I think what the reports says is that you cannot run a BS-VI diesel on BS-IV fuel. It does not mention anything about running a BS-IV engine on BS-VI fuel. General consensus on this forum is that it should be possible.
You should be able to run a BS VI diesel on BS IV fuel but there's no reduction in emissions to be had by doing so. That's why the SC has demanded that only BS VI fuel be available nationwide from June 2020. Oil Marketing Companies say they are on track to achieve that target.

Anyways, I'm sharing what I've gathered so far on this topic from an older post of mine - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4502165 (The 2018 next-gen Maruti Ertiga, now launched at Rs 7.44 lakhs)

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I've been following the whole BS VI shift since I bought a diesel compact SUV in February this year. My research yielded this picture -

1) BS VI Diesel engines upto 1.5 Litres will cost between Rs.75K to Rs.1 lakh more than they do currently.
2) BS VI Diesel engines of 1.6 litres and higher will cost...anything like Rs.1.5 to 3 lakhs more, depending on the engine's size.
3) After conforming to BS VI emission norms, a diesel car will only pollute as much as a petrol car would. That's a huge jump because currently, at BS IV levels - a single diesel car pollutes as much as 40 petrol cars!
4) Of the modifications involved, there are going to added components such as a diesel particulate filter and other parts to curb emissions. These form the basis for the impending cost hike.

I really wonder what'll become of diesel-heavy body on frame SUV makers like Tata and Mahindra when the BS VI price hikes occur. Price elasticity will come into play and it'll dent their sales. And I don't foresee a 1.6 tonne dry-weight TUV 300 in a BS VI petrol avatar for instance. A 2.7 tonne Hexa with a BS VI petrol engine would return 6 Kmpl at best. But meanwhile, the respective BS VI diesel versions of such cars would begin to cost hell of a lot more to the point where monocoques might start winning the MPV/SUV race from then on simply because they are more amenable to be driven by petrol.

Slightly OT - As Tbhp member piousdevil discovered, fears of BS VI grade diesel harming older BS IV engines seem unnecessary - https://www.team-bhp.com/news/bs-vi-...-bs-iv-engines
And then our member Carma2017 dropped this piece of knowledge upon us at https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4502282 (The 2018 next-gen Maruti Ertiga, now launched at Rs 7.44 lakhs)

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BSVI diesel engines would be at least 1.5L-2L Rupees costlier no matter the size. My firm works on Engine parts in Japan. It is only when pushed to an extreme corner did VW actually cheat, so difficult is the task. BS VI is definitely the death of diesel or at least the death of diesel for city dwellers / low distance drivers.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 30th December 2018 at 09:56. Reason: Removing repeated word. Thanks.
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Old 26th December 2018, 20:30   #153
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BS 6 engines will also start beeping every 30 seconds once you cross 120KMPH . This is what I heard when I visited Anant cars for a test drive of Mahindra Alturas. Detailed test drive is slated for next week . Any one who owns or have driven alturas g4 can throw more light ( alturas is BS 6 ready engine )
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Old 26th December 2018, 20:38   #154
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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BS 6 engines will also start beeping every 30 seconds once you cross 120KMPH . This is what I heard when I visited Anant cars for a test drive of Mahindra Alturas...
Nothing to do with engines, speed warnings are becoming mandatory from mid-2019. Intermittent beeps at 80 KMPH and persistent beeps at 120 KMPH.

Quite a few recent launches have these already. Santro, for example.
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:12   #155
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

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BS 6 engines will also start beeping every 30 seconds once you cross 120KMPH . This is what I heard when I visited Anant cars for a test drive of Mahindra Alturas. Detailed test drive is slated for next week . Any one who owns or have driven alturas g4 can throw more light ( alturas is BS 6 ready engine )
Speed limit reminders are part of the safety norms expected to be active from 1 July 2019. There are other things as well that would be mandatory like seat belt reminder, dual frontal airbags, reverse parking sensors and manual override for central locking. Any vehicle sold after 1 July 2019 will have to comply with these norms.
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Old 14th January 2019, 16:50   #156
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

Hi everyone. I'm planning to purchase a new petrol vehicle around August this year. With all the buzz around BS6 and new vehicle registration, I have a specific doubt irking my mind.

If I get transferred to a different state (say from Telangana to Karnataka), will I be able to get my registration changed? Since the news is that no BS4 vehicle will be registered post April 2020, is that rule applicable in case of change of state too?
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Old 17th January 2019, 12:29   #157
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

While it is a given that come BS 6 norms, diesel cars are going to get kitted out with additional emission control equipments and will get costlier, I'm seeing contrasting opinions on the extent of the cost hikes.

1st school of thought - No matter the engine size, every diesel car is going to get costlier by 2 lakhs. This is the death knell of diesel cars for the urban customer.

2nd school of thought - Only bigger engined diesel cars (2.5 Litres or bigger) will need selective catalytic reduction (SCR) to cut down on Nox emissions. Smaller engines won't need SCR and hence will only cost 50k more than they do now. The bigger engines are the ones that will cost 2 lakhs more.

I'm curious to know the outcome of this particular question. We are on the precipice of a potentially huge change in the Indian automobile market. If it were the case that every diesel car will cost a lot more than they do now, customer preferences and production numbers are going to radically change.
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Old 18th January 2019, 17:44   #158
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!


Tata becomes first to get BS6 certified CNG engine for CVs

The official name of of this new engine is 3.8 NA SGI CNG.
Tata becomes first to get BS6 certified CNG engine for CVs

BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!-screenshot_20190118180341_chrome.jpg

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As India gears up for BSVI industry standard, which come into effect in India from April 1, 2020, Tata Motors has acquired a BS6 Type Approval certificate for its 3.8L NA SGI CNG engine (i.e., without turbocharger) from ARAI (Automotive Research Association of India).
The engine max power of 85 Ps @ 2500 RPM with max torque of 285 Nm @ 2500 RPM.

In the run up, Tata Motors becomes the first to get BS6 certification for a naturally aspirated CNG engine for CVs. This is for tailpipe mass emissions and On-Board Diagnostics (OBD) compliance as mandated. Tata Motors’ 3.8 NA SGI CNG engine will power 4T to 9T GVW buses and trucks, i.e., 407, 709 and 909 which are now offered as BSIV compliant vehicles.
BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!-screenshot_20190118180958_chrome.jpg

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Rajendra Petkar, Chief Technology Officer (CTO), Tata Motors said, “This BS6 engine certification milestone has been achieved with intense design and development focus, by leveraging in-house capabilities and those of our technology partners.

We have worked hard to build a leadership position in the market by providing our customers with economical, best-in-class natural gas vehicle products in the commercial vehicle market and this development of BS6 solution will further re-inforce our market offering.”
Source
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Old 27th January 2019, 16:18   #159
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Default Diesel Cars : The road ahead with BS VI

With the Advent of BS VI norms from April 1, 2020, many of the popular cars are destined to move ahead the road without the diesels due to substantial increase in sticker price. It sounds like a death knell for small cars diesel variants like Swift, Baleno, Punto and many others. Many sedans are likely to go petrol solo too, at least for the initial leg. The national diesel engine is also likely to be put to rest in peace.

In the intervening period of more than one year, there will be many car purchases. I am also the one planning my next car soon as my current ride is close to 8 years old. Based in Punjab where petrol and Diesel price difference is quite hefty, it is essentially a norm to go for diesel power train if you are planning for C segment or higher. Though my running is mostly in Chandigarh and petrol Diesel price difference is Starkly lower as compared to Punjab here. But my running is on moderate to higher side, so I am inclined for the diesel despite the diesel variants premiums of about 1.5 lakh for cars like Creta and Verna which I am planning.

I have searched across but could not find any suitable advice whether it would be a good decision or bad decision to go for BS IV diesel or simply diesel when such a big change in the country's automotive scene is impending. It might be a good decision as the demand for used diesel cars may go up few years down the line and diesels running costs will continue to be sub par with petrol till then or may be a bad one as well due to unfavorable conditions or laws ahead for diesels and market may lose the interest in diesels entirely. Please share your valuable thoughts.

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Old 27th January 2019, 18:30   #160
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My suggestion in the form of question is...if we buy a BS IV diesel car now, will we be able to sell it 5 years down the line? I don't think so. The demand for used BS IV diesel cars may never go up as it's life Will be limited and ultimately has to be scrapped at least considering small cars.
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Old 27th January 2019, 19:15   #161
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Default Re: Diesel Cars : The road ahead with BS VI

This is a question, which is haunting my mind also. I am sitting on the fence, as very few cars are there which are BS6 complaint at the moment. If one does buy, a BS4 vehicle, what are the prospects 2 years down the lane, as it is my car is BS4 complaint now, so why buy an old wine in a new bottle. The other day I also saw an article in the paper wherein the Green Tribunal is stating that by 2020 they want to ban all diesel and Petrol vehicles in Kerala and only Electric Cars will be allowed, of course I don’t know if its wishful thinking.
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Old 28th January 2019, 07:55   #162
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

@NFS2024; sparky@home; we have four BS-IV Honda cars (Civic, Brio, City, Amaze), we are not replacing them till BS-VI kicks in. This is one of the misfortunes of having skipped BS-V on the way.

Once BS-VI kicks in next year we will have to replace three of them (I intend to cut down on one of my cars). At least one AT in the lot, right now both Civic & Brio are AT. So this is how I plan to tackle the issue.

Of course BS-VI is the death knell of the Diesel. I guess everything including the kitchen sink will be thrown in. Even many petrol engines will be replaced or extensively changed. So spares and service will become a problem.

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Old 28th January 2019, 07:55   #163
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

The marked silence of manufacturers are understandable, since any 'info leak' regarding this will decimate sale of BS4 vehicles for the rest of the year.


IMHO it would make sense to wait till 2020 april when there would be BS6 fuel+vehicles; why would anyone want to buy a car which has an engine that's gonna get outdated within a year?

And since the Supreme Court is decided on this, any change of government is not gonna effect anything.
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Old 28th January 2019, 07:56   #164
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Default Re: Diesel Cars : The road ahead with BS VI

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Originally Posted by gupta_chd View Post
With the Advent of BS VI norms from April 1, 2020, ...... I am also the one planning my next car soon as my current ride is close to 8 years old. ...... I am inclined for the diesel despite the diesel variants premiums of about 1.5 lakh for cars like Creta and Verna which I am planning..... Please share your valuable thoughts.
If I were you, i only see one safe way out of this conundrum; buy a petrol car. To buy a diesel now is indeed tricky and to buy one after BS VI kicks in will leave your wallet way more lighter. And then, we have our policymakers and regulators who may ignorantly ban all diesels even though BS VI diesels would only pollute as much as a BS VI petrol car. It's all too murky where diesels are involved. It's all illogical too since an IIT study found a few years back that most of India's pollution comes from heavy transport vehicles and only 5% comes from passenger vehicles...

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Originally Posted by sparky@home View Post
This is a question, which is haunting my mind also..... The other day I also saw an article in the paper wherein the Green Tribunal is stating that by 2020 they want to ban all diesel and Petrol vehicles in Kerala and only Electric Cars will be allowed, of course I don’t know if its wishful thinking.
To treat electric vehicles as the cure for all our automotive ills is something stupid on the part of our babus. There isn't enough Lithium available on earth and in a space of 7 years from 2010 to 2017, the price of bulk mined Lithium shot up by 270% owing to its scarcity versus all the rising demand. We also do not have enough Cobalt from the known mines. Our electric cars are run based on these two key minerals. This is why even Tesla will not succeed in 100% electrification of cars in the US, despite their established and improving network of superchargers. Until there remain so many supply side constraints, electric cars will not be economically viable for the middle class.

To aim for such a thing in Kerala or elsewhere in India would be downright Quixotic.
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Old 28th January 2019, 10:05   #165
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Default re: BS6 / BSVI emission norms coming in April 2020!

I would treat the below as more of a speculation based on the fact that the Fiat Engine would retire which is a fact. But it maybe possible for Maruti to provide the Suzuki Diesel Engine for these cars by then.

No Diesel Version For Maruti Suzuki Swift, Baleno & Dzire Likely From 2020 (27.Jan.19) Read more at: URL

But yes, there is no easy answer or guidance on how the scenario would be post implementation of BS VI and I think it is best to hold off investments in Diesel cars by an year for those not in a hurry.

Last edited by vsrivatsa : 28th January 2019 at 10:07.
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