[SoumenD]

Noob question


I understand diesel car prices will skyrocket once BS-VI is in, but how will this norm change affect petrol cars? Will they become further expensive as well to own and run? Currently I am using a 2010 Estilo(am the 1st owner) that has done 37.5k kms & is a BS-IV model. Lately I have had the itch to change and hence test drove a few cars(mostly finalizing Freestyle 1.2 Titanium). Mechanically my current car is in almost perfect condition doing the duties as a 2/4 seater, but the itch to upgrade at times just gets you.

However, this whole BS-VI confusion is making me re-think. Will I be able to sell off this car in 2020, if I wait for another year and exchange this for a BS-VI car? Seeing the resale value of the Old Zen,800,Altos(all BS-III ones) doesnt look like selling BS-IV cars should be a problem, but still would like to know what you all think? Should I wait for a year before changing the car as am in no hurry? But if waiting for a year wouldn't have any substantial change(mind you am taking of petrol cars), I dont see a point deferring my purchase.

P.S: Since small diesels will die off, is there possiblity of smaller hybrids(proper hybrids) making inroads?

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

However, this whole BS-VI confusion is making me re-think. Will I be able to sell off this car in 2020, if I wait for another year and exchange this for a BS-VI car? Seeing the resale value of the Old Zen,800,Altos(all BS-III ones) doesnt look like selling BS-IV cars should be a problem, but still would like to know what you all think? Should I wait for a year before changing the car as am in no hurry? But if waiting for a year wouldn't have any substantial change(mind you am taking of petrol cars), I dont see a point deferring my purchase.

Well, I am also in similar situation right now and here is my analysis for your queries
1.2020(or even 2021) - We will still have only BS-IV cars in used space isn't it ? Looking at the average car ownership of say 3-4 year, as per me the demand for older BS-IV will start tapering off post 2021 if not later.
2. Buy now or wait - Wait if you can !!. I feel the deals should turn further sweeter by end of the year or early 2020 to clear all the BS-IV inventory. That might also be a perfect time to grab a car with steep discount.
3. Buy a pre-owned car from higher segment - I am just contemplating this idea(I am also open for suggestion). This will be a stop-gap for a couple of years until we start seeing better hybrids/electric options (I guess beyond 2022)

[longhorn]

If your running is pretty low, its best not to go in for a hybrid, or at least one that has a lithium ion battery. Vehicles equipped with this battery have to be driven at least once in 5 -7 days (to help the battery retain its charge). If the battery gets fully drained, it will affect its life in the long term, and its replacement will cost a tidy sum.

All in all, you will be better off with Ola /Uber in this scenario as the cost of ownership will no doubt increase.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

I understand diesel car prices will skyrocket once BS-VI is in, but how will this norm change affect petrol cars? Will they become further expensive as well to own and run?

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Well, I am also in similar situation right now

Whoa there! Hold your horses. There is no reason why BS VI petrol cars will become unduly costlier. If they get costlier, it'd have to be owing to other safety norms (mandatory crash safety, airbags, ABS, pedestrian survivability etc.)

BS VI is going to be the death of mass-market diesel cars alone. Having a BS VI diesel car pollute as much as a petrol counterpart is a huge ask, hence their impending price hikes.

Petrol cars are in fact going to be our preferred mode of conveyance in the near future, including cab operators in all likelihood. There's even talk of a hike in diesel fuel costs or a cut in petrol costs, in order to discourage use of diesel in the future.

Regarding hybrids or EVs - we're still some ways off before those can be considered practical IMO. Stick to petrol and you'll be fine

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by locusjag

Whoa there! Hold your horses. There is no reason why BS VI petrol cars will become unduly costlier. If they get costlier, it'd have to be owing to other safety norms (mandatory crash safety, airbags, ABS, pedestrian survivability etc.)

My comment was specific to diesels since i drive a diesel car now. Like you also mentioned, diesel will still remain a preferred choice for SUVs(read XUV,Innova etc) which are fuel guzzlers.

I am always in favour of safety such as airbags and ABS, so not deviating the topic (purely BS-IV vs BS-VI)

To be more specific:
1. Not much changes expected for petrol engines - We might as well postpone our buy and pick a BS-VI petrol car/pick BS-IV at a further discounted price towards end of the year
2. Narrow gap between petrol and diesel - not worth paying a premium for the diesel car.
3. If buying a heavy SUV(2.0+ litre ) , picking up a BS-IV towards end of the year with better discount might be a better deal(than paying a premium next year)
4. I am assuming the BS-IV engine life will not be compromised much while using BS-VI diesel. This is where the resale price logic comes(post 2021/22)

On a side note:
SUV are more popular today as compared to sedan counterparts in similar price point. The ratio is very skewed in favour of SUV. SUV are inherently heavy and consume more fuel/require more torque and hence inclination towards diesel.

It will be interesting to see how the market dynamics will change post 2020 as we will have to worry about - SUV + Sedan + BS-VI(Petrol+Diesel).

Hybrids/Electric are yet to penetrate our market, so clearly 2020 is a transition face and I guess we are still 3-4 years away from any major shift

[AlphaKilo]

Originally Posted by locusjag

...
Petrol cars are in fact going to be our preferred mode of conveyance in the near future, including cab operators in all likelihood. There's even talk of a hike in diesel fuel costs or a cut in petrol costs, in order to discourage use of diesel in the future.
...

Sad! What are we trying to achieve with BS-6? Reduction in NOx or reduction in CO2? If it is the latter, then encouraging petrol engines is exactly the anticlimax and if former it has no scientific evidence (enough) to prove that it affects climate change drastically (as much as CO2). India is not alone in this trend of switch to petrol engines. I wish that we find sooner or later a good energy storage method (efficient and eco friendlier than batteries) and a cleaner way to generate the necessary electricity (if that should be the future).

[Games Goblin]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

For diesel engines,after treatment devices include:
2a. Diesel particulate filter (DPF)
2b. Diesel oxidation catalyst system
2c. SCR (selective catalytic reduction) - needs to be regenerated periodically with a proprietary urea solution called AdBlue
2d. LNT (Lean NOx Trap)

Thank you for this detailed write up.

Out of the above listed treatment devices, what all would a typical diesel engine under most cars in India today (say a Ford 1.5, VW 1.5/ 2.0 TDI etc) need to meet the BS6 norms? And what would be the addition to sticker price after implementing these devices?

Thanks

[aniyo]

BSVI indeed has created a lot of confusion for the buyers. Like me many will be left confused to buy or hold on with opinions available both ways.

1. We were thinking for Nexon/Ecosport with a view that even if the BSVI comes in we don't stand to lose much in resale over the next 4-5 years as they are not very expensive cars.

2. Second school of thought by my friend is that buy a big car hold on for 10 years, he feel new fuel will not harm the old engines much. BTW he bought a Hexa last month.

I am caught between the 2. Wife wants to stick to smaller car but I am tilting to get the big car and hold long.

[sgiitk]

@SoumenD; There will be some (not so serious hopefully) on the prices of Petrol Engined cars. So you can be assured on this count. In fact I bought my Civic just as BS-IV came in and due to Honda making reversing sensors as par of the fitment, I actually paid less for the BS-IV Civic than what the BS-III Civic would have cost, with reversing sensors.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

3. Buy a pre-owned car from higher segment - I am just contemplating this idea(I am also open for suggestion). This will be a stop-gap for a couple of years until we start seeing better hybrids/electric options (I guess beyond 2022)

This IMHO is the best option available if not looking to pick up a discounted BS4 towards the end of the year.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by AlphaKilo

Sad! What are we trying to achieve with BS-6? Reduction in NOx or reduction in CO2?

I think they're trying to reduce NOx and PM 2.5 emissions. We have unprecedented population densities in our cities and having so many diesel driven vehicles is seen as a huge contributor to NOx and PM 2.5 emissions.

Let them do all this. We'll watch while yet more PM 2.5 are kicked up by vehicles via road dust. They'll still keep burning garbage everywhere for instance, emitting all kinds of pollutants. Stubble burning is not the only thing affecting us!

And I don't think CO2 emissions are seen as an inmediate issue in India, as long as a New Delhi posting is viewed as a 'hardship posting' for foreign embassy workers and diplomats at par with war zones like Afghanistan and Iraq, thanks to alarming PM 2.5 levels.

[aniyo]

Had test drive Ford ecosport today..during my conversation with the SA I asked him about the BS6 norms and how will ford engine take it.
He mentioned that the Ford TDCi is BS6 ready and going to be part of the figo facelift as well. As per him the engine will need only small addition to be compliant and the old engine can run on BS4 fuel. No cost was mentioned.

I did not quite understand the term BS6 ready

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by aniyo

I did not quite understand the term BS6 ready

Somebody mentioned earlier that for BS-IV ready engines, a simple ECU remapping will be sufficient

[surjaonwheelz]

In a statement from Honda here they are ready with BS-VI compliant petrol/diesel engines for all their models.

Points to consider,

- All Honda cars (Amaze to Accord) to get BSVI-compliant petrol and diesel engines.
- BSVI compliant cars to cost more than ones on sale now.
- BSVI cost impact is much higher in diesels than in petrols.
- Diesel cars expected to get a significant price hike post BSVI upgradation.

So is this the right opportunity to buy an i-DTEC?
- Convenience of a CVT in Amaze Diesel
- Frugal mile muncher in the City Diesel

Let's discuss!

--surjaonwheelz

[Dinesh_Malhotra]

Guys,
Was just wondering...

What would happen to the diesel engines of our current cars when they are fed with BS6 compliant fuel?

For e.g. My elite i20 diesel asta 2015, which looks spanking new inside-out in 2019, what is the way ahead for it?