[narayan]

Just like the Storme thread in 2012 the Hexa thread is now full of fan boy comments reacting impulsively to anyone who remotely comments on Hexa's potential unreliability or lack of sales. I wonder how many who so passionately "defend" the Hexa will go out there and buy one. If even half the Tata fans speak with their cheque books rather than typing away to glory, Tata will manage 4 digit sales. On a serious note I hope they've got the vehicle really well sorted because the markets tolerance for "unfinished" from Tata is just not there. As for pricing, no matter where they price it, it's an uphill task.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf9

I agree that hexa may not sell in good numbers. But with due respect, how can you say that hexa will not even come close to Innova on reliability and comfort? I can understand reliability concerns. But how are you saying that hexa won't be as comfortable as Innova when the car is not even launched?

Buddy hold your horses before shredding my post to its words and conveniently ignoring the context in which I made it. Everyone was labelling it as the next "Innova slayer" to which I objected. I have no hard feelings for the Hexa and would myself love if it can achieve good sales figures. I have had only good things to say about the Zest and Tiago and hopefully it stays the same with Hexa. But my point is simply that we should not weigh the car down with so much expectations. Its like saying that junior AB will dethrone the Big B with his first movie. According to me that is the kind of difference that exists between the two brands as of today in terms of market perception and there is a whole Innova/Toyota legacy in our market that we are talking about. Anyways enough has been said about this topic and hopefully we can go back to discussing the Hexa in this thread and not the Innova Crysta.

[LoneWolf9]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Buddy hold your horses before shredding my post to its words and conveniently ignoring the context in which I made it. Everyone was labelling it as the next "Innova slayer" to which I objected. I have no hard feelings for the Hexa and would myself love if it can achieve good sales figures. I have had only good things to say about the Zest and Tiago and hopefully it stays the same with Hexa. But my point is simply that we should not weigh the car down with so much expectations. Its like saying that junior AB will dethrone the Big B with his first movie. According to me that is the kind of difference that exists between the two brands as of today in terms of market perception and there is a whole Innova/Toyota legacy in our market that we are talking about. Anyways enough has been said about this topic and hopefully we can go back to discussing the Hexa in this thread and not the Innova Crysta.

Sir I understand the context and I did not ignore that. As I said I agree that it may not sell in huge numbers irrespective of how good or bad it is mainly due to the poor brand image and long term reliability concerns. But i still could not understand writing off a car on comfort when it's not even launched and so the post.

Anyways i agree let's get back to discussing Hexa.

Originally Posted by narayan

Just like the Storme thread in 2012 the Hexa thread is now full of fan boy comments reacting impulsively to anyone who remotely comments on Hexa's potential unreliability or lack of sales. I wonder how many who so passionately "defend" the Hexa will go out there and buy one. If even half the Tata fans speak with their cheque books rather than typing away to glory, Tata will manage 4 digit sales. On a serious note I hope they've got the vehicle really well sorted because the markets tolerance for "unfinished" from Tata is just not there. As for pricing, no matter where they price it, it's an uphill task.

Not everyone discussing about a particular car would necessarily buy that car or is looking to buy a car. And please don't gauge a car sales by few post on this thread. Coz by this logic, Fiat would have been the market leader and maruti would have struggled to sell a car.

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[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf9

But i still could not understand writing off a car on comfort when it's not even launched and so the post.

And yet you conveniently did not say the same thing to pages and pages of posts before I made that post, which claimed it be extremely comfortable. I suppose that was without experiencing the actual product too. Comfort is a very broad term and not just limited to how cushiony the seat is or lenient is the head room and leg room. For me comfort is not having to go the ASS more than once a year. Or not having to think twice before hitting the road.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf9

I agree that hexa may not sell in good numbers. But with due respect, how can you say that hexa will not even come close to Innova on reliability and comfort? I can understand reliability concerns. But how are you saying that hexa won't be as comfortable as Innova when the car is not even launched?

That's a perception people carry. It's their choice. IMO I will never pay big money for a people moving van, especially something loved by cabbies. Regarding reliability I can't speak for aria but the Storme has been as reliable as any other vehicle around and that makes me confidently pick a next Tata if it meets my requirement.

[akhil994]

Well having driven an Aria, for nearly 5 years now and clocking 1.25 lakh kms, I would say that the time that we decided to go for it, we understood and quite liked what it offered over the Innova back in 2011. Suffice to say, the car has been excellent for us for these past few years.

Granted, it has had a couple of niggles, which were more related to the service, the reliability has been rock solid. And as product would also swear by the build quality of that vehicle. The interiors have also held up pretty well.

So my father and me are quite eager to check out the Hexa as well, excited to see the progress Tata has made over the Aria. Infact my father is quite willing to trade in the Aria for a Hexa, but for my insistence to move up a segment or two this time. If that would not be the case, would surely go for the Hexa.

[Latheesh]

Speaking of ARIA, I checked with few owners

1) During our visit to TATA Motors plant we were ferried by a Tata Aria cab (in 2014) which clocked around 100000 KM. Driver did not say anything negative, and overall condition of the vehicle was nice, without a single rattle.

2) I personally know 2 others (cabs), one clocked around 175000 KM, and other is 215000 KM as on date. First one had some gear box issue (not major but was at service centre for few days). Both are happy customers!

[WorkingGuru]

Dear people, please comment more on facts that you may come across & scoops you can find out.

Like, now, a month before launch, someone says they came across a 5-speed AT. Please find out if you can, about which transmission is going to be offered. I'd be very grateful.

I was hoping for a 6-Speed Automatic gearbox. IMO it'd really help with decently spaced gearing ratio's.

Is it an AMT unit bolted onto the same old gearbox ? I believe its possible because they might be trying to keep costs under control. I'm fine with AMT, I believe its an acceptable low cost alternative to conventional torque converters.

Where are they going to manufacture the Hexa ? Because if its Sanand, then prices might be cheap due to low input costs. But if its Pune, those advantages won't be there.

Apparently pricing is upto 18Lakhs for the Top End (Manual),
Assume ~3.6L Karnataka Road Tax (18% + 1.8%) ,
+ ~40k Insurance,
+ ~25K Additional warranty (because Tata usually has that),
+ ~35k Gold AMC,
+ ~10K "Handling Charges"
+ ~5k Basic accessories / variable additional cost apart from the above
so in Karnataka, OTR would be approx Rs. 22.75L

AFAIK the Top end Manual Crysta came to 24.20 L OTR in Bangalore.

People generally say its prudent to wait for 6 months after a Tata car is launched, to allow them to iron out any possible creases. That way I can wait a few months, it'll also help if maybe Toyota brings down prices.

Now that Innova Crysta & New XUV5OO have second generation success, not only do they have the pedigree to boast about, they also have an A.S.S. that is experienced with demanding enthusiast customers (that definitely counts in my opinion).

If I decide XUV, I'm mostly confident of the after sales service because my cousin knows someone who recently joined an ASC here. Only reason of coming to this thread & breaking my head trying to understand Hexa is because I prefer an MUV.

Originally Posted by Vikvkv

After reading the heating debates about innova Vs hexa I would like add my point of view. TATA should ideally price hexa...

Someone (RavenAvi) has been told a possible price range.

Taking that as an approximate indication, it looks like Hexa undercuts XUV by ~50k. It even undercuts Crysta by 1.6 to 1.7 Lakh.

To many (like me), that may not feel good enough to justify the gamble. Overall there are many factors, not just the A.S.S.

[Vikvkv]

After reading the heating debates about innova Vs hexa I would like add my point of view. TATA should ideally price hexa on the lines of xuv 500 and should aim to undercut it if possible. One important point I like to make is TATA would probably market the hexa as a SUV unlike innova which I think is A mpv. I say innova as a mpv because it's doesn't come in 4x4 options unlike hexa. But if we compare hexa as a people mover then innova is a direct competition. But since hexa has the terrain response system it would be a proper alternate to the xuv 500.

[GrammarNazi]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Speaking of ARIA, I checked with few owners

1) During our visit to TATA Motors plant we were ferried by a Tata Aria cab (in 2014) which clocked around 100000 KM. Driver did not say anything negative, and overall condition of the vehicle was nice, without a single rattle.
...

Well, in 2013, during my visit to the Pune Plant & then MD Karl Slym, on both days we were ferried in an Aria to & fro. (We were ferried in the Winger within the plant).

We got inquisitive & had a chat with the Aria driver. The driver was very frank about the strengths of the Aria as well as it's numerous weaknesses. It was only post 2013 that the Aria became anything close to reliable.

IIRC He'd been working for Tata since a decade & been regularly involved in test driving their cars.

The car would have regular issues every week.
He confirmed that procurement was the main issue. Like, the same supplier who sold seat covers to Mahindra, would sell sub standard seat covers to Tata even at the same price.

(Which is why we heard Cyrus Mistry publicly warning suppliers a few months back)

Other problems ranging from
dead batteries in new cars,
serious issues with dual mass flywheel,
leakage in suspension struts,
Excessive & Uneven tyre wear,
bad fit finish of trim, etc

He listed the good things like

Super-safe build of structure, his friend (who took the breaking for granted - all 4 solid discs) had had a head on collision at (after breaking) ~65kmph with an oncoming tractor & found the structure very very safe compared to the severety of the crash.

Mileage! - it could really deliver 14kmpl on highways in real world driving, not economy driving,

Power - it was WAY ahead of the Innova in power delivery.

Eventually he confirmed that Innova, although lifeless with just 100bhp, was a benchmark like no other if one wants reliability over 2-3 lakh kms.

Agreed there are many happy Aria owners, but post 2013 the sales numbers hovered around single & double digits.

So, IMO let's not get into the past.

A price difference between 1.6-1.7Lakh between the Hexa & Crysta is too close. Tata is inexperienced at dealing with high end customers.

Anyway, let's see.

[LoneWolf9]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

And yet you conveniently did not say the same thing to pages and pages of posts before I made that post, which claimed it be extremely comfortable. I suppose that was without experiencing the actual product too. Comfort is a very broad term and not just limited to how cushiony the seat is or lenient is the head room and leg room. For me comfort is not having to go the ASS more than once a year. Or not having to think twice before hitting the road.

I didn't see any post which claimed hexa to be very comfortable. I may have missed it. Each car has his own strength and weakness. i also agree that comfort is a very broad term.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf9

I didn't see any post which claimed hexa to be very comfortable. I may have missed it. Each car has his own strength and weakness. i also agree that comfort is a very broad term.

Well, when someone says a vehicle is 'comfortable', it only means the ride comfort, ergonomics of seats, sense of airiness etc.
It is only when you say 'I am comfortable (or not comfortable) with a vehicle, it can mean lot of other things which includes peace of mind factor, value for money, image, service level, quality, resale value etc etc.
I know my post may just add to the ongoing debate, but I just wanted to point out that using this word in two different contexts can mean very different things.

[lifebuoy]

Originally Posted by centaur

Apart from pricing it right, Tata should also try and protect it from fleet owners as much as possible, like say for e.g. not commercial registration for the first 2 years. That will ensure that more people buy it for personal use and that would build the image the Hexa would need.

Yes Toyota could not stop the innova too from being used by fleet owners inspite of being lesser powered and higher priced but TATA should do this if they want to separate out the taxi image and also promote it as a personal car

@why should TATA try to build a personal car image ? Innova is popular today because of volumes from the taxi market. Remember the lowest / cheapest E variant did not even come with a power steering !!

Go TATA, get the car popular and its worth in the market, it's ONLY volumes that is ultimately recognized by our "junta", including people out here !

[rosaf]

A couple of decades back growing up as a child , i always got compared (by my mother of course) to how the other boy is better than me in this aspect and that regard!

But today when my mother looks back , she thinks it was such a waste comparing me to others and pushing me to do and be better than the best as today i have turned out to be decent if not the best and am doing quite good for myself and my family on the professional front , which btw i realized myself with time and worked upon it , rather than getting compared with any one else.

Now coming to the actual point , Toyota has been making cars since 1935 ( source wikipedia ) ie. roughly 81 years , Tata started making cars from roughly 1998 (Safari followed by Indica , i am not counting the Estate and Sierra as cars here which were made earlier than 1998 ) which is about 18 years .

We all know and have seen how drastically the market has changed in the past decade , and Tatas have surely done some introspection and self analysis and then in the past have come up first with the Storme followed by Zest and recently Tiago , with every model they have tried to up the game and i guess most would agree that they did up the game!

And with the Hexa they will up it further without any doubt hence the delay with all the testing.

Agreed when the Aria was launched it was compared with the Innova may be by TML themselves but the market has changed and so has TML , so IMHO Tatas wont be comparing the Hexa with the Innova as the latter has certainly moved to an upper segment and i would say rightly so.

90 -95 % of people who want to buy an Innova will buy an Innova only and people who like the Hexa and have faith that TML has and is improving in every aspect will go for the Hexa knowing it is a good choice for them.

Also most of them dont buy SUVs and MPVs (read 5 plus seaters) due to their need to carry more people , its just that mind set to own a bigger car , for eg. i myself dont need a 5 plus seater , but i prefer SUVs ( big car) so i am in the market for one.

I rest my case by concluding that at least i would not compare it with the Innova or XUV as some have been saying , but wait for the launch , let Team-bhp review be out , will check it in person , if i find it suitable , Hexa Auto in the top most variant will be my next car!

Wishing TML all the best and eagerly awaiting the Hexa!

Cheers!

[narayan]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf9

Not everyone discussing about a particular car would necessarily buy that car or is looking to buy a car. And please don't gauge a car sales by few post on this thread. Coz by this logic, Fiat would have been the market leader and maruti would have struggled to sell a car.

I agree - discussion need not necessarily lead to a purchase. But there is a difference between "discussions" and rebuttal of every form of criticism about Tata , dismissal of competition as being inadequate and the larger car buying population as ignorant. ( now pls don't ask me to give evidence to each of these ! This is not directed to any of your posts - but the essence of how similar threads end up being )

After having owned 3 Tata vehicles and ready for the next one, I fully recognize Tata's strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes, out of passion for a well respected Indian brand ( which I too have ) , we end up blindly forgetting the huge list of shortcomings they come to the market with.