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Old 3rd January 2018, 15:06   #211
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

Interesting topic that always puts me into trouble with EV promoters.

This is the wikipedia extract:
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Our dependence on non-renewable forms is still over 75% with hardly any EVs on road. Our electricity requirement will easily double with an added electric car per household. Burning more coal / gas elsewhere to drive clean cars in the cities is not really an alternative. We after all have one planet.

How in this equation does renewable forms answer our energy demand!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 16:47   #212
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Originally Posted by subramanyam84 View Post

Our dependence on non-renewable forms is still over 75% with hardly any EVs on road. Our electricity requirement will easily double with an added electric car per household. Burning more coal / gas elsewhere to drive clean cars in the cities is not really an alternative. We after all have one planet.
Your concern is right, one planet and somewhere we need to generate the electricity. But, the trick is somewhere else:

1. Even on a same planet, the actual harm would be much lesser when the source of pollutant is far away. And, with newer Super Critical Power Plant the efficiency level and control over pollutants are very encouraging.

2. Let me not talk about the huge cost advantage (saving foreign exchange) we'll have and reduction in our dependencies on imports.

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Originally Posted by subramanyam84 View Post

How in this equation does renewable forms answer our energy demand!
1. For equivalent power generated using even fossil fuel for an EV, the resulting pollution would be much lesser (I guess, half at least!) So, for running your petrol/diesel car for equal distance as compared to an EV, you may end up polluting twice as much, even with the power for EV coming from a coal based power plant.

2. Mix of source of power progressively tilting towards renewable energy, hence more share of power for EV from even less polluting source.

Hope I tried to make sense.

Last edited by kbishwa : 3rd January 2018 at 16:49. Reason: Grammar
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Old 3rd January 2018, 17:16   #213
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Even on a same planet, the actual harm would be much lesser when the source of pollutant is far away. And, with newer Super Critical Power Plant the efficiency level and control over pollutants are very encouraging.
.
Here we're looking at separating residential settlements from powerplant zones?

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Hope I tried to make sense.
I completely agree with your view. It surely is the way to go where pollutants are contained and not emitted to air without treatment. I probably didn't drive my message clearly enough. The problem I see is in implementing the whole thing by 2030. It is only 12 years away. Today, I doubt if powerplant emissions are well treated.

I do support the drive for clean air. Badly in need, being a resident of Bangalore. I for one would applaud if it takes shape. Somehow I feel 2030 looks a bit too ambitious.

Regards,
Subramanyam
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Old 3rd January 2018, 23:03   #214
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Somehow I feel 2030 looks a bit too ambitious.
The ministry already backtracked, pls see few earlier posts

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post4332278
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Old 29th August 2018, 08:23   #215
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Originally Posted by subramanyam84 View Post
Our dependence on non-renewable forms is still over 75% with hardly any EVs on road. Our electricity requirement will easily double with an added electric car per household. Burning more coal / gas elsewhere to drive clean cars in the cities is not really an alternative. We after all have one planet.
Coal imports may rise to 62 mt in FY19 to meet power demand.

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the country's dependence on thermal power generation is likely to remain high in the absence of any substantial improvement in power generation from other sources.
Quote:
With the demand for power likely to remain healthy in the rest of FY19 and thermal capacity contributing to the required growth, coal availability becomes a key determinant. Considering the historical growth rate of domestic non-coking coal production and offtake, imported coal requirement will increase, as against FY18 when imported coal usage declined
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Old 3rd September 2018, 08:01   #216
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

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Your concern is right, one planet .........Hope I tried to make sense.



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Originally Posted by subramanyam84 View Post
Here we're looking at separating residential settlements from powerplant zones? .......Somehow I feel 2030 looks a bit too ambitious.
Regards,
Subramanyam

Govt. deadlines are meant to be broken ! But 2030 as a goal for such vaulting ambitions is certainly......optimistic?
And treating power plant exhaust emissions while being the currently acceptable practice is far from being a viable solution, shipping being case in point. Shipping co. worldwide are under last-straw pressure to contain flue-gas/exh-gas emissions - large ships today having near-equivalent captive diesel power plants (in the range of 80,000 KW/107000 HP).

But the reluctance to retro-fitting (or even in new-builds) scrubbers or other forms of exhaust treatment installations is palpable, obviously for economic reasons. It is anybody's guess as to what will work - coercion of some sort or a carrot-and-stick policy. How long we keep our "lovely blue planet" in that healthy state is a conundrum that's still very much alive.

Last edited by shashanka : 3rd September 2018 at 08:07.
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Old 20th September 2018, 20:54   #217
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

No deadline for 100% electrification of vehicles : Minister

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no developed country has achieved even 30 per cent electric mobility. “We need not hurry, but we have to work towards achieving maximum electric mobility.

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Old 6th November 2018, 08:27   #218
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

Another talk - now looks up to the sky ?

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Rope-ways and cable cars are future of public transport - Minister

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Old 6th November 2018, 11:52   #219
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

@subramanyam84; Who is keen on Electrics.

Not the carmakers and most customers (Increases sticker price).
Not the dealers (reduces service requirement).
Power Minister maybe, we will demand off peak meters. However, nighttime power demand is pretty low.
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Old 7th November 2018, 16:32   #220
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

The day somebody like Maruti launches an EV with a range and at a price which is comparable to their ICE cars, and if we can establish a decent number of fast chargers in the city, demand will go through the roof. This is because EVs have much lower running cost, an instant win for Indians. We are still I would say 5-7 years away from that, but it is not un-achievable. We (Teambhpians) are small percentage of the wider car buyer market who cares about ICE, or manuals or engine size or performance. The vast majority do not care. The day electric cars become mainstream, the change will take place at a rapid pace. Especially in a country like India, where consumers are not only very fast to adapt, but are also not so entrenched into a traditional fossil-fuel ecosystem that they cannot change...because at-least a quarter of the nation has yet to buy a car.

Look at China, and its rapid electrification. They are on-course to sell around 1.5 million plug-in cars this year. 1.5 million!

If you ever trawl though EV forums and ownership reports you would see that nobody has ever gone back to an ICE, regardless of whether they started with a Model S100 or a Nissan Leaf. And demand is very, very high. Outside the glitzy headlines of Tesla, even cars like the Hyundai Kona Electric, has a one-year waiting period because of the real lack of alternatives on the crossover space. Same goes of Chevy Bolts, Volts, Leafs, eGolfs etc. People have put down deposits for cars like BMW i4s, which have not yet been revealed.

Given the right amount of subsidies, incentives and model availability, the acceptance of EVs can be rapid. A model example is Norway, where the number of plug-ins (EVs and Hybrids) sold now comprise of 60 percent of all cars sold. From 1 percent to 60 percent in less than 7 years.

Obviously, Norway is a small market, so can adapt faster. For a country like Germany, it will be a miracle if they reach even 50 percent by 2030. But, it is tough to tell. Like I said, consumers don't care. If you give them a better deal in which they don't even have to own a car or it can drive themselves or is powered by something cheap, they will ditch their present cars overnight.

Diesel is a great example of that. Germany and UK motorists used to swear by diesels for two decades. Once diesel-gate happened, cities started murmuring about the harmful effects of diesel and courts started banning it, diesel sales have dropped overnight. With cities banning diesels from city-centres, it has become the Fuel-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named.

So, India 100 percent electrified in 2030? Who knows? I think maybe 25 percent of sales will electrics+hybrids. Cities like Delhi and Bangalore are already going to get slapped on my congestion/emission bans soon. Once you start adding incentives, like EVs will only be allowed in certain zones, or get free-parking, or get tax-benefits, the uptake of them will be faster.

Plus the entire Mobility-as-a-service and Autonomous driving could be another variable which needs to be considered.

Right now, the automobile industry is going through a huge upheaval. 2020-30 is going to be a very interesting time and frankly, unpredictable.
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Old 9th November 2018, 07:32   #221
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

EV charging stations business open to individuals without applying for licences, though there will be a cap on the tariff they can charge from EV owners.

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these will be monitored and have to meet specifications and performance standards set by the power ministry
Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Motors and cab-hailing companies Ola and Uber, besides several state-run companies and startups have shown interest in setting up electric vehicle charging infrastructure in the country.


Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030-1.jpg

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Old 9th November 2018, 09:52   #222
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

Bangalore Ministry draws out a blue print for welcoming EV's - E-vehicle charging stations to come up every 25km on Bengaluru-Mysuru highway.
City plans too included.

Quote:
The state energy department is likely to set up EV charging stations every 25km on the Bengaluru-Mysuru highway. A fully charged electric car can run up to 120km.
Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030-1.jpg

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Old 9th November 2018, 11:51   #223
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

While sympathizing with the Mantri, I still feel we are a long way from reaching the level. I still fee the best way for us may be to go for hybrids before talking or full e-vehicles. Remember Air-conditioning is almost de rigeur in nt.the bulk of the country, and low speeds and traffic snarls are too frequent.
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Old 11th November 2018, 16:23   #224
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

EVs only shift pollution to other areas and even if renewable energy picks up (studies have shown that wind power turbines severely affect the wind patterns and birds in the locality) actually the battery technology is still very "dirty" with use of lithium, cadmium and other heavy metals and actually may prove to be more polluting in the longer run.


The only real solution is comfortable/efficient public transport / mass transit systems and proper development of urban areas after planning for such systems. Personal transport is a very inefficient use of energy resources whether electric or fossil.
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Old 17th December 2018, 07:46   #225
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Default Re: Power minister wants India to become 100% e-vehicle nation by 2030

Unable to decide on the charging technologies for electric vehicles. Government decides a solution that will raise costs of charging stations substantially.

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EV charging stations asked to install both Japanese, Chinese technologies
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