[MinivanDriver]

Originally Posted by VRPAI

Does the ban on ten year old Diesel's resume or has that been stayed as well?.

AFAIK, the ban on ten year old diesels has not been stayed by the court. However as has been pointed out in another post, SIAM has appealed it. Also note that the state government has not started implementing the ban.

[ajayclicks]

An interesting article in the online edition of TOI:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/52575304.cms

Some of it corroborates (atleast in my non technical mind) what tsk has been saying in the other thread:


"Cars are the biggest contributor to particulate load at 43 per cent, followed by SUVs at 23 per cent. Together they contribute 66 per cent of the particulate load," the CSE said.

Urging the government for immediate action to promote the public transport and discourage motorization, Roychowdhury said that the incoming cars have the highest per capita carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions (3,031 gram/km), followed by SUVs at 1,919 gm/km, and two-wheelers at 988 gm/km. The CO2 emission traps heat.

The incoming passenger buses have the smallest carbon footprint of 539 gm/km."

So I guess, NGT and the Supreme court will have to now ban "incoming cars" from entering Delhi. Maybe they should transfer Karnataka RTO officials to Delhi

[chakky]

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle8679742.ece

Looks like LEAF is all out to save our lives. Not sure why they limited to only diesel cars. They should have said everyone should stop travelling then the citizens lives will be stationary and alive!! What some people do to make name..

[holysmoke]

So the opening post of the thread was quite awesome. I would challenge any of those Indica cabs still plying around after this to an emission shootout against the new C220 which is banned. Needless to say that it doesn't make sense... however, we need to understand the entire scenario here. (copy pasting some stuff from another post of mine on TBHP)

The Govt is unable to speed up crude refining to BS-VI early.
With that, they cannot pressure manufacturers to adopt to BS-VI early, and even if they do, whats the point if the fuel is not available pan India.
Hence Govt sits on its donkey, and takes no action.
National Green Tribunal wakes up, takes drastic measure of banning diesels above 2000c in Delhi and proposed 12-13 more towns.

Who suffers? Car makers like Audi, Mercedes, Toyota etc.

What's the way out?
Instead of(or in addition to) to a negative solution(ban all engines above 2000cc), it wont be long before the automakers lobby for a positive solution. This specially holds true for the bigger MNCs like Toyota and Merc, who are affected here, who have advanced technologies. I can see lobbying starting on reduction of import duty for clean vehicles. It is imperative that their eyes will go the other side of the line once they are sure that this ban is here to stay. Right now they are cribbing and silent, but when they realize the govt cant do jack, they'll start pushing for incentives on clean tech.

Meanwhile, Tesla has already taken bookings for the model 3 in India.

Piyush Goyal, the power minister is tirelessly fixing India's power issues. Keep an eye out for him.

This should be fun.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by holysmoke

The Govt is unable to speed up crude refining to BS-VI early.
With that, they cannot pressure manufacturers to adopt to BS-VI early, and even if they do, whats the point if the fuel is not available pan India.
Hence Govt sits on its donkey, and takes no action.

The process to upgrade the refineries to supply BS IV norm diesel all over the country from April 2017 was in progress, there were to be two more steps to improve to BS V for 6 metro + 22 regions by 2019 and to BS VI by 2023. Oil ministry took a desigion in 2014 Dec itself to skip BS V and upgrade countrywide to BS VI level by April 2020.

Originally Posted by holysmoke

National Green Tribunal wakes up, takes drastic measure of banning diesels above 2000c in Delhi and proposed 12-13 more towns.

An ad hoc ban by a mis informed quasi judicial body.

Originally Posted by holysmoke

Who suffers? Car makers like Audi, Mercedes, Toyota etc.

What's the way out?
Instead of(or in addition to) to a negative solution(ban all engines above 2000cc), it wont be long before the automakers lobby for a positive solution. This specially holds true for the bigger MNCs like Toyota and Merc, who are affected here, who have advanced technologies. I can see lobbying starting on reduction of import duty for clean vehicles. It is imperative that their eyes will go the other side of the line once they are sure that this ban is here to stay. Right now they are cribbing and silent, but when they realize the govt cant do jack, they'll start pushing for incentives on clean tech.

wait a few more years for 2020, and BS VI norms where Diesel limits are way cleaner than for petrol or CNG will come in, and they will want issue scrap orders for the other two.

Originally Posted by holysmoke

Meanwhile, Tesla has already taken bookings for the model 3 in India.

Piyush Goyal, the power minister is tirelessly fixing India's power issues. Keep an eye out for him.

This should be fun.

Electric can be a good alternative, but not a replacement. A Plug in diesel electric series hybrid with a option of engine shut down and fully electric drive will be the best solution.

Rahul

[volkman10]

SIAM approaches Kerala HC to lift NGT's ban on diesel vehicles -Vehicles sold by SIAM's members comply with all statutory norms and emission standards prescribed by law.

The petition filed by Atanu Ganguli, senior director of SIAM, alleged that the NGT's order of May 23 was passed without any material being available before the tribunal to show that ambient air quality of the six 'cities' were above the prescribed norms and that pollution is caused.

There was no material before NGT to conclude that such pollution was being caused by diesel vehicles of 2,000CC and above or diesel vehicles older than 10 years

NGT's order can only be challenged before the Supreme Court or before a division bench of the high court, LEAF's counsel argued

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...icles/52576809

[apachelongbow]

I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...

[lurker]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...

there is some kind of game afoot. This is the same kind of scam like once a campaign was launched specifically against **Maggi noodles** while all the other noodle brands were unmolested on store shelves. The others were apparently using the cleanest tech in the world to manufacture noodles in India. While maggi was caking their noodles with wax and mixing lead in their masala powder.

[dean5545]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I see a big political scheme behind NGT activity. They were formed in 2002. What did they do for the past 12/13 years? They seem to have woken up just after the regime change. For two decades they were sleeping as if there was no pollution since so many years. Suddenly NGT is active And in overdrive competing with the likes of fundamentalist organisations in banning everything in sight. Did they consider it necessary to ban the Jugaad? The diesel gensets? The diesel locomotives running under electric wires? The societies in Gurgaon running 24/7 on captive diesel power? How about banning illegal industries within cities famous being the likes of the leather factories of Dharavi? Are those planting oxygen and cleaning rivers...

Originally Posted by lurker

there is some kind of game afoot. This is the same kind of scam like once a campaign was launched specifically against **Maggi noodles** while all the other noodle brands were unmolested on store shelves. The others were apparently using the cleanest tech in the world to manufacture noodles in India. While maggi was caking their noodles with wax and mixing lead in their masala powder.

While other auto company's expressed their disbelief in the new ban improving the environmental conditions. I was shocked to see Anand Mahindra's first reaction on Twitter.
He said he fully supports the courts decision and has full faith in the Indian Judicial system. These are not his exact words but in the lines of what he said.
Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.

[vivtho]

Originally Posted by dean5545

... Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.

The engine is most likely the original engine but with a reduced stroke to bring the displacement within the new limits. No major mechanical changes are required for such a modification.

[anjan_c2007]

The ruling on old cars is now getting applied to paris too. All pre 1997 cars are banned in Paris. Wonder whether NGT is following them or are they following our NGT ?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...1997?fbfanpage

That's worrisome here ! Appears like a blanket ban. Classics and older ones included. We were quoting that developed countries do not ban older cars. Now the NGT will get more teeth and the bite may be injurious when the quote practices in Paris.

[chakky]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

The ruling on old cars is now getting applied to paris too. All pre 1997 cars are banned in Paris. Wonder whether NGT is following them or are they following our NGT ?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...1997?fbfanpage

That's worrisome here ! Appears like a blanket ban. Classics and older ones included. We were quoting that developed countries do not ban older cars. Now the NGT will get more teeth and the bite may be injurious when the quote practices in Paris.

Its not a blanket ban but a staggered ban...


If your car was built before 1997, don’t even think about driving it into Paris after this month. From July 1, the French capital will ban vehicles older than 19 years from driving in the city on workdays. Motorcycles will face yet tighter restrictions, with a driving ban on all two-wheeled motor vehicles made before 2000. Anyone caught driving an older vehicle will face a fine whose potential severity ranges from modest (€35) to biting (€450). While these vehicles will still be allowed on the roads before 8 a.m. and after 8 p.m., and without restriction on weekends, the new rules represent some of the toughest restrictions on drivers yet introduced by a European city.

[chakky]

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle8689155.ece

KSRTC and Private bus owners have finally got into action. I am not so sure on how less polluting their buses are but its better than nothing.

Unless our elected representatives act on behalf of the private vehicle owners, I am not sure if there is any other organization that can get in to support the private vehicle owners...looks like we have no other form of representation...

[aruncheloor]

Now, its our turn to protest against such arbitrary rulings.. please join us.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by dean5545

While other auto company's expressed their disbelief in the new ban improving the environmental conditions. I was shocked to see Anand Mahindra's first reaction on Twitter.
He said he fully supports the courts decision and has full faith in the Indian Judicial system. These are not his exact words but in the lines of what he said.
Then within a weeks time he announced that the company will launch a 1.9ltr engine to comply with this ban. How can a company ever design a new engine in such a short span.

The same point has been discussed: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3891222

The Supreme court has entertained such petitions since 2013. Mahindra wouldn't be sitting quietly, knowing well that banning decision may be taken any day.