NGT bans 10+ year old diesel vehicles in Kerala. EDIT: High Court stays ban

[srinih75]

Half the KSRTC buses and most lorries will then have to be scrapped.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

An advasi may not.pay income tax but every commodity or service when bought has a tax component to it and no one.is exempted from it. Subsidy for diesel in passenger cars is a big drain on the state's financial resources.

So the solution is to ban all diesel cars? Did any of these diesel car owners ask for subsidy in the first place? And why stop at SUVs then? We should all be allowed only to travel on bikes which return 100 kmpl mileage. Anything lesser than that is criminal. I feel sad to see such logic being circulated on TBHP. How can I blame the NGT then for their lack of understanding the issue.

And by the way, has pollution in Delhi come down? In last 6 months there is a ban on diesel SUVs, the so called creator of pollution. And on top of that for a month ( 15 days twice) we have had car rationing in form of odd even. So has the pollution dipped compared to last year same period?

[landcruiser123]

Does this also mean I can't do a roadtrip through Kerala's metros in my 10 year old Innova?

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

An advasi may not.pay income tax but every commodity or service when bought has a tax component to it and no one.is exempted from it. Subsidy for diesel in passenger cars is a big drain on the state's financial resources.

Which state is subsidizing diesel. Diesel subsidy ended in Nov 2014. As of now both Diesel and Petrol attract Rs 3 and Rs 6 as basic exise duty. Rs 9/Lit as additional exise duty, and Vat which varies from state to state, with diesel usually in the 12.5 % or 14.5 % catagory, and Petrol in the much higher 20% catagory.

[Viju]

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

A verdict in the right ditection. Two aspects,diesel and SUV. Diesel-As long as fuel is subsidised, diesel cars which are also polluters should be discouraged.

2000Cc-rules out bigger cars like SUVs from getting reregistered. In India where road space is a premium SUVs should be sold in such a way that buyers feel the pinch and think twice before buying one.

Diesel suvs will face the brunt which is a good thing.

Captain Haddock, no offence, but I actually had to check your profile to make sure I am not going to disrespect a senior citizen. But I realized you are just 30 years old and cannot believe that you talk like someone who would happily go back to the dark ages!

Diesel is more polluting. SUVs take up more space and therefore they are bad. Big SUVs have engines above 2000cc.

Before you go around this forum making baseless statements like these, please put in the effort to pen down what is the basis on which you make them! Do you have any numbers to support these claims? On what basis are you saying the 2000cc SUVs pollute more than say 1500cc petrol cars? Because they emit more NOx and particulate matters? What about CO2 and global warming then?

Originally Posted by Captain Haddock

I have been to cities like Vienna and SUVs are seldom used in western europe because they clearly understand that SUVs will clog the traffic.

You got it all wrong. European market is 10x more matured than Indian market. They prefer compact cars with good driving dynamics. They prefer sedans, hatches and wagons because they are faster and better to drive.

Oh, and by the way, did you not observe the ratio of diesel to petrol vehicles in Europe while you were there? How come the Europeans don't know that diesel cars pollute more than petrol equivalents? (as per your own theories)

By the way, you should try and make a trip to the US as well. You will be amazed at the number of SUVs you find there even in cities with dense traffic. Oh, and almost all of them, gas guzzlers too. May be our NGT could make the world a better place by banning SUVs globally.

Originally Posted by aruncheloor

They just opened a bench at Kochi yesterday & they passed a ruling as an "Introductory Offer" on the same day to prove that they have reached Kerala. Someone filed a PIL & they enforced a ban like Almighty.

Spot on! NGT is turning out to be nothing more than a circus of retired people who pass judgments as per their whims and fancies! We should start a petition / campaign for dissolving this team nationwide!

Originally Posted by aruncheloor

Buses, trucks & auto rikshaws are the most polluting vehicles on road.

No one will dare to touch them. Private car owners have always been the softest of targets and be it tax, regulations, anything at all - it is shoved down their throat as they are not organised. I would like to see the respected members of the NGT walk out in the open after banning half the city buses in Kochi! Their lobby is so strong the NGT will go back to wherever they came from.

Originally Posted by aruncheloor

This sudden move is to help the Global automotive giants only, who are struggling with their sales due to competition & saturation in the Indian market.

Exactly! This is the point most people fail to see. SIAM and its leaders (M&M being the No.1 lobbyist) will do anything and bribe anyone to get their numbers moving.

I was really surprised to see that I was the only one to find it suspicious that M&M was ready with their 1.99L engine within a month of the rule coming in! Keep in mind that these are the same people who take 5 - 7 years to make a new model production-ready, and then make their customers do real-world validation for another few years to sort out the niggles! We, as a society are really gullible.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by Viju

I was really surprised to see that I was the only one to find it suspicious that M&M was ready with their 1.99L engine within a month of the rule coming in! Keep in mind that these are the same people who take 5 - 7 years to make a new model production-ready, and then make their customers do real-world validation for another few years to sort out the niggles! We, as a society are really gullible.

I thought about it too, i'm sure many have. If they did not have early information on this there is no way they would have come out with their sub 2 liter diesels so quickly. Crysta deliveries are just starting and it sure is going to eat a portion of XUV sales.

If NGT is serious about Green then why not start with Govt vehicles across all departments? They know they can't. Lead by example.

[sdp1975]

The ban on registration of vehicles can be enforced, but the ban on plying of 10+ years old vehicles won't be easy to enforce.

What's the ground situation in Delhi ? For the first few days the aged vehicles were being impounded but I'm sure they're plying now.It's practically impossible to check on a regular basis the age of vehicles and impound them. The Delhi govt has asked for a amendment to the MV Act for rights to impound the old vehicles - my take is that they're not too keen on implementing the order.

http://www.financialexpress.com/auto...hicles/223384/

[commonman]

I would request all of you to know more about NGT, National Green Tribune. This is a quasi government organization,which is still running on pre 2014 members.The rest,I cannot say here as it will be against forum rules. We must know the politics behind it.

[Guna]

Ridiculous ban! What is the problem as long as the vehicle is in good condition and meets the emission standards? Modern cars can easily live for 15 years or more. Crackdown should be on many commercial vehicles which leave out black smoke.
As an impact I can see KL vehicles being available at throwaway prices in the neighboring states.

[abhayankara]

Originally Posted by darklord

To clarify, as I saw it, the ban is for 10 years or older diesel vehicles with engine capacity above 2000 cc. I don't think it applies for new vehicles in any way.

Also, this has come at the most opportune (or inopportune) time, with the government in transition and the government's top lawyers having submitted their resignation.

It applies to new vehicles also, I read this article in Economic Times today,
Courtesy: Economic Times

[aaggoswami]

I might sound absurd, but it's esoteric that these agonizing bans are coming at a time when Automotive sector is under pressure. Not even a hint of doubt that automotive lobbying is behind this move. Rather than having more scientific approach to scrutinize vehicles like how much kms. covered,re-evaluating of vehicle every 2 years, etc., this move is illogical from any reasonable stretch of imagination. No fuel to support technology but only diesel and cars over 2000 cc are banned. NGT is too scared it seems when it comes to fuel quality. Obvious intention is to increase sales of cars which are likely to suffer further if economy fails to revive. Mahindra with their 1.99 ltr. engines are likely to benefit a lot.
What next ? Ban on sedans because they carry less passengers than MPV occupying equivalent road space ?
Such short sighted moves bereft of logic are not going to help India in any way. Infact, this move may lead to a seriously shaken confidence which in a way Toyota has openly admitted.

[amitpunjani]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

I might sound absurd, but it's esoteric that these agonizing bans are coming at a time when Automotive sector is under pressure. Not even a hint of doubt that automotive lobbying is behind this move. Rather than having more scientific approach to scrutinize vehicles like how much kms. covered,re-evaluating of vehicle every 2 years, etc., this move is illogical from any reasonable stretch of imagination. No fuel to support technology but only diesel and cars over 2000 cc are banned. NGT is too scared it seems when it comes to fuel quality. Obvious intention is to increase sales of cars which are likely to suffer further if economy fails to revive. Mahindra with their 1.99 ltr. engines are likely to benefit a lot.
What next ? Ban on sedans because they carry less passengers than MPV occupying equivalent road space ?
Such short sighted moves bereft of logic are not going to help India in any way. Infact, this move may lead to a seriously shaken confidence which in a way Toyota has openly admitted.

If the automotive lobby is behind this, then why 2000cc temp ban? M&M, Toyota, TATA, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Audi are all suffering from this baseless judgment.

I wonder, the ban is applicable for all these OEMs, but come and see in GURGAON, the status of shared Auto's, drivers/owners run them on kerosene. One can't even stand behind those Auto's for 30 seconds.

The bigger picture, what I comprehend is, OEMs why shy away from investing into India. Also, YoY, the cost benefit for manufacturing in India, is diminishing. May be in coming years, cars being imported from China, will prove more Cost effective for OEMs.

HAIL NGT!!!!!

[mi2n]

The NGT has turned out to be exactly as expected, another tool for lobbyists. This is the modern face of the erstwhile "licence raj".

Unsurprisingly, the NGT ain't the sole body taking such arbitrary decisions. The Ministry of Environment and Forest and Climate Change (MoEF) has vide a Notification dated 4th April 2016 banned the import of Virgin Plastic Scrap into the country. While the decision has been tailored to look fair on the face of it, the vested motives and interests of big Indian conglomerates behind this arbitrary ban are so evident that it is almost hilarious.

Virgin Plastic Scrap (pre-consumer) are in effect scrap generated during production of plastic items like PE Films, etc. These are just the leftover from pieces cut to specifications in a factory and are as good as virgin plastic(certified by CIPET) but available for less than half the price. Such scrap are imported into India by plastic recycling units where they are reprocessed, without causing any pollution whatsoever, into usable plastic agglomerates/granules. These recycling units are categorized under the Green and Orange categories by the Ministry themselves suggesting these to be non-pollutants.

Such reprocessed plastic are then sold for half the price, hurting badly, the big petrochemical companies who sells their granules for more than twice the price. Also, such reprocessed plastic agglomerates are still left freely importable into India at twice the cost of domestic produce.

Import and recycling of such virgin plant scrap is allowed in US, EU, China, etc.

Import of hazardous scrap/waste of rubber and textiles are still being freely allowed into India.

I'll just leave the rest to your imagination.

[romeomidhun]

What surprises me is that it is not the state govt, but the National Green Tribunal who decided to ban it in 6 corporations in Kerala! If it is purely National, it has to ban it in all corporations all over India. Why single out Kerala? Is only Kerala the Green state? Or am I missing something here?

Kerala being a coastal state and all these corporations reside on the coastal area, the effect of pollution will be lesser compared to cities which are non-coastal.

I guess there is a political plot behind this decision. The recent state election may have some effect on this. Further more, if this assumption is true, there going to be stricter "green" rules to be applied in Kerala by these agencies - whether it is related to vehicles or otherwise, like Gadgil and Kasthurirangan reports.

The main thing these authorities has to do is to de-congest the roads. Vehicles moving at snail's pace during traffic blocks / congestion is the main cause of pollution compared to Diesel vehicles running at 40-60 KMPH, IMO.

Maintain the existing roads, widen them as necessary, develop new ones, build multi-layered fly-overs, introduce efficient public transport systems, and then talk about bans.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

What surprises me is that it is not the state govt, but the National Green Tribunal who decided to ban it in 6 corporations in Kerala! If it is purely "National", it has to ban it in all corporations all over India. Why single out Kerala? Is only Kerala Green? Am I missing something here?

Elections just over, new govt yet to be sworn in. Goal post with no goal keeper Same won't work in TN or elsewhere, KL is soft, has been so far.