[rajeev k]

Originally Posted by Ashdel

I also agree that it would be kind of impossible for the authorities to check which 10 year old car is in healthy condition and is less polluting, however still this is so much disappointing for diesel car lovers.

Can the six monthly pollution test be useful here or else the whole pollution check can be termed a fiasco.(Which is even now, as many have opined.)

[Ashdel]

Originally Posted by rajeev k

Can the six monthly pollution test be useful here or else the whole pollution check can be termed a fiasco.(Which is even now, as many have opined.)

PUC is just a formality here in India. Anyone can get a pollution under control certificate by paying some extra money to the attendant. I am sure higher authorities are somewhat aware of the same. That is why they themselves don't want to rely on the test

[AutoInt]

Originally Posted by forbhaskarm

Latest news in TOI 23rd July page #6 : Centre set to challenge NGT's diesel ruling

Also here :

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/53346425.cms

Good to see government is going to challenge the ban. Happy to hear someone from the government is talking logically and listing down the issues with this ruling of NGT.

Hope the challenge will see some light at the end with proper action plan / measure to control the pollution, manage retirement of polluting vehicles and revised PUC procedure / steps to assess the fitness of vehicle (petrol /diesels).

Its also time for SC to lift the ban on 2000 cc and above diesel vehicles to bring back the confidence, both for the consumer and the manufacturer. Would be better for the Government and NGT to work together and present a single and long term policy / view to the citizens to avoid such fiasco in future

[AutoSphere]

Interesting to read RCBharagava's (Maruti Suzuki) stand on this

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/53363085.cms

[Kandisa]

Originally Posted by AutoSphere

Interesting to read RCBharagava's (Maruti Suzuki) stand on this

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/53363085.cms

Interesting indeed, particularly in the viewpoint of many that MSIL 'may' be one of the possible groups behind the 2000 cc+ ban. It is also bit interesting to see him opposing a move, at least in public, which could potentially increase the new vehicle sales.

[ajayclicks]

Originally Posted by Kandisa

It is also bit interesting to see him opposing a move, at least in public, which could potentially increase the new vehicle sales.

I think that the opposition to such bans could be on the following grounds:

1. It just opens doors for future and further arbitrary judgements which could have a major negative impact on the entire sector.

2. This ban could actually dampen sales of new cars. Many people sell their old cars and use this fund their new purchases, which, in many cases end up being 1-2 segments above their current car. Case in point- I was offered ~ 2 lacs for my 2005 swift petrol LXI. A mid to top end variant of Baleno seems within reach. But hey, impose a ban on 10 year old petrol cars, and I have to relook at my options.

3. Many people buy cars keeping in mind that they will "use" it for 15 years and hence recover their investments. A reduced ownership period of 10 years makes owning a car more expensive, thereby dampening sentiments

4. Many people are unsure about owning and driving a car, and they purchase a 10 -11 year car for 1- 1.5 lacs, keep for a year or two, and once they are comfortable driving, buy a new car. This segment will not have the luxury of "easing" into the car ownership process.

Just my two cents, I could be wrong on some or all of the above.

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by AutoSphere

Interesting to read RCBharagava's (Maruti Suzuki) stand on this

He's right with respect to the material loss of the people.

If you want people to change their cars to newer, more efficient and less polluting models, give a good financial incentive on the new car and a few (3-4) years' notice.

[ajayclicks]

Meanwhile, on a slightly unrelated note, here is a news report on NGT's scientific basis for passing judgements:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/53390083.cms

An expert panel of the National Green Tribunal told the environment court that the Rs 120 crore penalty it recommended against Art of Living Foundation for holding its World Culture Festival on the Yamuna floodplains in March had no scientific basis.

"It was not based on any scientific assessment," wrote Shashi Shekhar, water resources secretary, who headed the panel. Shekhar described the estimate that Rs 120 crore would be needed to repair the likely damage as "tentative" and a "spontaneous suggestion", which got elevated as a "recommendation" because of an "inadvertent mistake". This inadvertent mistake was largely due to the fact that I was running high fever and could not see the entire report prepared by the experts," Shashi Shekhar, head of an NGT panel, wrote to the environment court.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ajayclicks

This inadvertent mistake was largely due to the fact that I was running high fever and could not see the entire report prepared by the experts," Shashi Shekhar, head of an NGT panel, wrote to the environment court.

Wow. This is a new low in the existence of NGT in our country. I am amazed at the impunity with which people in such high senior positions give such lame excuses for their shortcomings. So AOL organisation has once again shown that they are above all laws and moral obligations towards the society. BTW shouldn't the said person above be terminated from his job for this so called error? I am sure the gentleman would have already received a handsome sum of money to compensate for his "high fever"!

[ajayclicks]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

BTW shouldn't the said person above be terminated from his job for this so called error?

As per the article, he had mentioned his views 8 days before the event took place. Now, I am not sure whose intention I should doubt- the individual in concern, or NGT.

Significantly , Shekhar wrote this letter to the NGT on March 3, eight days before the AOL event got under way .

The panel, comprising experts and environmentalists C R Babu, A K Gosain and Brij Gopal, had submitted its report to NGT on February 22.

Clarifying the stand, Shekhar had said while members of the panel did discuss imposition of Rs 120 crore penalty on the AOL, he did not endorse the experts' view (on the amount) and had, instead, suggested that the organiser must restore the Yamuna floodplains after the festival, with the experts assessing the cost of the repair job.

[haria]

A simple google search – indicates that the debate on fuel types is highly inconclusive – on the pros and cons of pollution. One thing which there is no debate is ALL fuel cars pollute – so why not go the full way and BAN ALL vehicles ? Why this partial treatment of a particular type of vehicle ? Does diesel engine degrade after certain years ? Shouldn't the actual mileage of the vehicle decide whether it should be scrapped or not ? There are many well maintained cars which are aged and having low mileage on their odo, On the other hand, there are cars (typically much abused cabs) which might be "younger" in age, but polluting more. What is NGTs guidance for these kind of vehicles ? What about state run buses and heavy vehicles ? Is NGT responsible only for making these kind of grandoise statements and then keep quiet on how to implement, ironing out the details ? There are too many unanswered questions.



I think we can see more and more of these kind of half-baked judgements made in an arbitrary manner. Maybe the intention is only for marketting that NGT is still alive and rattle its sabre..



Taking a contrarian view, if this helps in reigning in the auto sector to implement more stringent guidelines, it would be definitely worth it. But again, we have episodes like the reputed VW which manipulates the data/software. I'm sure VW is not an exception and all companies will have their share of skeletons if one digs deep enough..


Implementing a stricter PUC – maybe based on multiple parameters like age of vehicle, odo reading, actual emission levels, etc may yield better results.

[Lalvaz]

Originally Posted by Ashdel

PUC is just a formality here in India. Anyone can get a pollution under control certificate by paying some extra money to the attendant. I am sure higher authorities are somewhat aware of the same. That is why they themselves don't want to rely on the test

IF that is the case, then they should atleast do away with the mandatory PUC test. According to your post, we are paying for a piece of paper which has no value. Then why should we pay? And why should we be penalized if we do not have the PUC certificate?

Problem is as always in the implementation. IF the government had made a rule that vehicles could be registered for a period of 15 years and needed 6 monthly PUC checks, then now mandating scrapping of 10 year old vehicles is a travesty of justice. In fact, it can easily be challenged in a court of law. How can a vehicle which meets the pollution norms be scrapped only because it is 10 years old? That is ridiculous to the core.

[halfbytecode]

With all these talks on bans, I have always wondered about the presence of classic and vintage vehicles, in this scenario. Are they already subject to different laws, guidelines or rules?

[keeprevving]

Let's assume the ban is implemented all across the country. If so, then:

• Is it possible to swap an old diesel engine by a new diesel or a petrol one? If so how can it be done?
• Where can I get a new or relatively new heart (engine)?
• Is engine swapping a legal process?
• Can one approach the manufacturers for a new engine?

Previously many Ambassadors made use of Matador engines, but I am not sure if one can do the same today.

[pugram]

Originally Posted by keeprevving

Let's assume the ban is implemented all across the country. If so, then:[list][*] Is it possible to swap an old diesel engine by a new diesel or a petrol one? If so how can it be done?[*]Where can I get a new or relatively new heart (engine)?[*]Is engine swapping a legal process?

I too had the same thoughts. For example a swift diesel has the same engine since inception. So theoretically there should not be a problem with the mounting points. So why can't the NGT or Court implement / permit a process of stringent emission checking and new engine upgrade with incentives. This should be way cheaper than buying a new car and I can keep my car too.

Going this way we will not be left with any antique cars from the current period, since we will follow a systematic process of junking them. Maybe a lucky few who have the space to park will have them.