[Racer911]

Hey Guys,

For all the people still confused between diesel vs petrol feasibility, I've created a simple excel sheet with basic variables that will give you a pretty accurate time period to cover the extra cost of a diesel, if at all you're planning for a diesel for cost saving purpose in the first place..

All the black fields with white text are not to be edited. They contain formulas.
The rest of the fields are where your input will be required.

All you have to do is punch in the numbers like cost of petrol diesel in your city, the kind of fuel efficiency you expect from both the counterparts with respect to your driving environment and style, cost of both the variants etc.. and at the end of the sheet you get a realistic time period calculation when that extra mileage on diesel and cheaper price will actually break even the extra cost for diesel that you'd have to shell out in the first place..

Check it out and do let me know if you think there's some flawed calculations.

its in the attachment.

[FireFoot]

Wow! This is great indeed and I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from it. Thank you for taking the time to work this up and share it. I haven't personally tested this yet however, I'm contemplating giving it a try as soon as I get back home. I guess this would work better for folks intending to pick up a new vehicle.

It would be interesting to see the analysis as I intend to pick up a pre-owned vehicle (diesel) which, i guess it goes without saying, is almost at half the cost of the original price. After spending a lot of time on TBHP site and evaluating advise from stalwarts with respect to my needs, it is probably going to be a VW Jetta TDi MT Comfortline (2012 or 2013).

[RajBajwa]

If one is going to buy his/her car as the last car in his lifetime then the calculations are fine. In case one intends to replace the car after a certain period of time then the resale value of the car is a very important criteria in the whole analysis of total cost in owning a car.

A diesel car always has a higher resale value compared to the same cars with a petrol engine. These values may change in the future and drop significantly as there are these semi government bodies asking for diesel cars to be scrapped after 10 years. Recently it is done for the Delhi region. In the future it might get passed to other parts of the
country.

However my point is that most people ignore the depreciation factor in the cost of ownership of a car which by far is the biggest expense. One loses roughly about 15-20% of the car value the second it is registered in his name.

You will have to make some assumptions for the resale value of the respective petrol and diesel car over different periods of time (Can be 3, 5, 7, 10 and 15 years). Let us assume that after 10 years a diesel car may have to be scrapped in 10 years and the petrol counterpart in 15 years. However we still get some money when we scrap a car in India for the metal. A C Segment car today when scrapped may fetch roughly about Rs. 25,000. I am not sure of the number but you can research that bit and include it your sheet.

[Chetan_Rao]

Originally Posted by RajBajwa

.......
A diesel car always has a higher resale value compared to the same cars with a petrol engine.........

While that may yet continue for a while, this was primarily governed by the wide variance in fuel pricing and the first owner taking the depreciation hit on the initial sticker price.

The latter factor (first owner taking dep. hit) will remain, but with more and more people buying petrol cars where diesel is no longer justifiable due to low(er) running, there may not be as many willing buyers of used diesel cars a few years from now. Lower demand dragging down pricing? Plausible.

P.S. Would be interesting to know the proportion of the small passenger car market that bought a diesel for its characteristics alone (higher torque, better FE compared to petrol siblings) rather than perceived cost-of-ownership benefits. I'm not convinced it's anywhere close to a majority.

[jetsetgo08]

Unsurprisingly, all the calculation would be in favour of petrol cars. But what about the fun the turbo diesels offer? Most petrol siblings of the same car are either boring to drive or expensive.

Despite being fun to drive, the diesels are frugal. The petrol sibling when driven with heavy foot would return a miserly figure.

IMHO,turbo diesels will rule the roost till turbo petrol engines catch up.
Once the market accepts the turbo petrol engines, the manufacturers would then mint money by pricing them at a hefty premium over their naturally aspirated siblings.

[SmartCat]

If you look at ASKING PRICES for petrol/diesel variants of cars like Swift, Ertiga etc on Carwale or OLX, one can say with reasonable certainty that petrol/diesel variants have the same depreciation rates these days.

"Diesels have lower depreciation rates" - this was true 5 years back, but not anymore. There was a significantly lower availability of diesel vehicles in the used car market that time, thereby increasing the resale value of diesel vehicles. Fast forward to 2016, diesel vehicles in the used car market are dime a dozen, across the price range and across brands and across various body styles.

Depreciation percentage is around the same, but you will still have slightly more cash in your hand. Since one is paying Rs. 1.5 Lacs extra when buying, they will be getting Rs. 50,000 to Rs. 75,000 extra over petrol model when they are selling

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Since one is paying Rs. 1.5 Lacs extra when buying, they will be getting Rs. 50,000 to Rs. 75,000 extra over petrol model when they are selling

Isn't that decrease in selling price normal for any diesel car irrespective of demand (bans aside)?

It's never the case that you pay INR 1.5 lakh more and get back more than INR 80k. The only exceptions being MPVs.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Racer911

Check it out and do let me know if you think there's some flawed calculations.
.

Just nitpicking of course - but diesel guy saves a tidy sum every month. I see that you are considering the "loss of 8% bank interest" on the premium (Rs. 1 or 1.5 Lac) one pays for a diesel over a petrol. But the diesel car owner saves Rs. 2000 to Rs. 5000 per month on fuel costs. These savings should go into a 8% per annum bank fixed deposit too

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

It's never the case that you pay INR 1.5 lakh more and get back more than INR 80k. The only exceptions being MPVs.

The extra amount you get for a diesel over an equivalent petrol (Eg: ZDi Vs ZXi) depends on the year you sell I guess. If you sell within three years, you will recover more of the premium. The premium amount you recover back when selling shrinks over longer a period of time.

[Racer911]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Just nitpicking of course - but diesel guy saves a tidy sum every month. I see that you are considering the "loss of 8% bank interest" on the premium (Rs. 1 or 1.5 Lac) one pays for a diesel over a petrol. But the diesel car owner saves Rs. 2000 to Rs. 5000 per month on fuel costs. These savings should go into a 8% per annum bank fixed deposit too

The extra amount you get for a diesel over an equivalent petrol (Eg: ZDi Vs ZXi) depends on the year you sell I guess. If you sell within three years, you will recover more of the premium. The premium amount you recover back when selling shrinks over longer a period of time.

Guys, that's why I said its a pretty simple and basic calculator. And about the guys putting in fun factor of diesel that is very subjective and cannot be quantified in terms of money. This calculations are only for those who are considering a diesel with a mindset that they will recover the extra cost in a few years due to better mileage and cheaper diesel fuel as against petrol.

About the consideration of loss of interest on diesel, that is something I added last moment. But I think even if you ignore that variable and only consider the gross break even point, even that would come down to a very long break even point.

Lastly, about depositing monthly savings on diesel in bank, no one actually does that. Moreover, I think anyone can ignore the interest variable as everyone finances their purchase so actually no one really shells out the entire price of the car upfront and faces loss of interest.

Originally Posted by FireFoot

...
It would be interesting to see the analysis as I intend to pick up a pre-owned vehicle (diesel) which, i guess it goes without saying, is almost at half the cost of the original price. After spending a lot of time on TBHP site and evaluating advise from stalwarts with respect to my needs, it is probably going to be a VW Jetta TDi MT Comfortline (2012 or 2013).

hi, thanks.

But I think if you're considering a pre owned vehicle, then in both the fuel variants petrol or diesel prices of pre owned vehicles should only be used. Otherwise the calculation would flawed.

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

Unsurprisingly, all the calculation would be in favour of petrol cars. But what about the fun the turbo diesels offer? Most petrol siblings of the same car are either boring to drive or expensive.

Despite being fun to drive, the diesels are frugal. The petrol sibling when driven with heavy foot would return a miserly figure.

IMHO,turbo diesels will rule the roost till turbo petrol engines catch up.
Once the market accepts the turbo petrol engines, the manufacturers would then mint money by pricing them at a hefty premium over their naturally aspirated siblings.

That is not true.. even if you had looked about a year back from now, for people who drive atleast a 100 Kms everyday, the calculations would most definitely have been in favour of diesel. I drive a 120 Kms daily, and we've been driving diesels now for almost 10 years now because due to lower fuel prices and better fuel efficiency on the diesel, we used to cover up the extra cost in less than 3 years and the rest would be our savings. But now with the price gap of petrol and diesel narrowing day by day, even our above 100 Kms of driving doesnt justify the extra cost of diesel as the initial payback period that was less than 3 years, has now gone up to almost 5 to 6 years, by which time we already want to sell the car and get a new one. In my city, petrol is currently 63.9, and diesel is 60.3. and these are Shell Prices. with a difference of just Rs. 4/- against the earlier differences of more than Rs. 15/-, at a certain time period even Rs. 20/-, for people driving about 3000 or more Kms. diesels always made sense in terms of ultimate money saving as the break even point came pretty fast and with car just about 3 to 4 years old, the resale would also be quiet decent. Today, with that pay back period going into the range of 5 to 6 years with the same driving, neither would many people be interested for such long break even (except maybe travel agents) because apart from the long break even period, the resale value of a 6 to 7 year old vehicle also takes a big hit as opposed to earlier wherein the cost could be covered in about 2.5 years.

Mod Note: Please use multi-quote facility instead of replying to each post individually. Also please avoid quoting large posts .

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by FireFoot

It would be interesting to see the analysis as I intend to pick up a pre-owned vehicle (diesel) which, i guess it goes without saying, is almost at half the cost of the original price.

Originally Posted by smartcat

Just nitpicking of course - but diesel guy saves a tidy sum every month. I see that you are considering the "loss of 8% bank interest" on the premium (Rs. 1 or 1.5 Lac) one pays for a diesel over a petrol. But the diesel car owner saves Rs. 2000 to Rs. 5000 per month on fuel costs. These savings should go into a 8% per annum bank fixed deposit too

It seems this is the best time to buy a well maintained used diesel car. One can enjoy the best of both worlds. A frugal yet a fun to drive car.

Meanwhile, on OLX and Quikr the petrol swifts are up on offer for good sum. The same would have fetched a paltry resale couple of years back.

How long can the difference in diesel and petrol continue? Is there a chance that diesel could exceed the petrol price? Isn't it cheaper to produce diesel?

[King_pin09]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

But what about the fun the turbo diesels offer? Most petrol siblings of the same car are either boring to drive or expensive.

Despite being fun to drive, the diesels are frugal. The petrol sibling when driven with heavy foot would return a miserly figure.

Hey dear, what about "REFINEMENT". Petrol Engines are usually more silent and have better controlled NVH levels when compared to the clattering Diesels. People looking for a family car would more eagerly pickup a silent and smooth running petrol car vis-a-vis an enthusiast who prefers a roaring torque machine.

My point is, both petrols and diesels have their advantages over one another and each buyer has his own set of preferences based on which they make purchases.

On another note going by pure economy, I doubt whether every petrol car buyer runs 110 Kms each day regularly. On an average in urban context it could be at an average of 60-70 kms max. So the break-even gets extended to further 1-2 years.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by King_pin09

what about "REFINEMENT". Petrol Engines are usually more silent and have better controlled NVH levels when compared to the clattering Diesels.

I agree to what you said above. The point I wanted to convey is buying a new diesel car in the current scenario might not result in savings as the thread starter rightly articulated through the calculations. Whereas buying a well maintained diesel C2-segment or above still makes sense. The fuel efficiency of a diesel is nearly twice its petrol counterparts in these segments.

Originally Posted by King_pin09

On an average in urban context it could be at an average of 60-70 kms max. So the break-even gets extended to further 1-2 years.

I drive for 70km's a day, and I am ruing on not purchasing a diesel car when I had an opportunity 2 years back. Prices of all cars have now moved a segment higher. I might now have to settle with an AMT petrol.

[schitre05]

Do intangibles such as Refinement and fun of the turbo kick have place in the tangible calculator? I dont think so
But then do these intangibles play an important role while selecting a car?
Hell yes!
Buying a car today is probably a decision that involves discussion and inputs from all members in most families, and if it is the first car of the family the rationale and spreadsheet calculations are out of the window within the first few minutes into discussion. It is more of an emotional purchase decision than anything else.
Yes, if it is the second vehicle in the family then the rationale/need is expressed in a specific manner where these calculations may play an important role.
cheers!

[amit_purohit20]

Hello Guys,

I had made this calculator 6 years back and posted this in team-bhp. I am again attaching it here now with an example of Pune prices of comparison between Car A-Swift Dzire VDI (O) Vs Car B - Swift Dzire VXI (O), O- Optional Kit (Airbags,ABS).

1)The calculator considers the resale price, investment of the difference of funds between Diesel and Petrol.
2)I have given a place to enter the kms at which the car would be sold.
3) It allows for one time extra maintenance cost like FIP repair, if you would want to add to.
3) I have added more parameters on top of the excel attached by the thread starter like
a) Resale value
b) Kms at which the car is sold
c) Price difference being reinvested in Fixed Deposit.
d) Bank Loan on the cost of the car etc


I own a diesel car and my inferences:
1) Difference between maintaining a Petrol and a Diesel car is nil. It has been proven time and again by actual cost records. In fact diesels require less maintenance due to their robust nature.
2) There is no point in buying a diesel for a person solely on a cost stand point, unless and until your car is on hire, you car is running more than taxi's and you would not sell your car till the engine is Kaput!
3) Diesels suffer from lack of refinement especially in the lower segments.
4) Diesels have better driveability than their petrol counterparts unless and until we go for higher capacity petrol engines like 1.4 or 1.6 litre. Yes the fuel efficiency would take a hit in such petrol cars and the calculator attached can be even used to compare a powerful petrol car vs a economy diesel car.
5) One of the option would be to buy a more powerful petrol car than going for a diesel version or going for the used car mode.
6) Buying used cars makes a lot of sense nowadays especially petrol cars!
7) Buying used diesel cars can become a risk if NGT bans it in your city with a clause of limited years of car ownership.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

3) Diesels suffer from lack of refinement especially in the lower segments.

I beg to differ on the above, as this might not hold true for contemporary vehicles. For the sake of fuel efficiency we would see more and more 3-pot petrol cars in the future. They would be less refined than the current 4-cylinder versions. This is an off topic debate though.

Originally Posted by amit_purohit20

4) Diesels have better driveability than their petrol counterparts unless and until we go for higher capacity petrol engines like 1.4 or 1.6 litre. Yes the fuel efficiency would take a hit in such petrol cars and the calculator attached can be even used to compare a powerful petrol car vs a economy diesel car.

Although, I am comparing apples to oranges.
Given a choice primarily for daily commute, would it make sense to prefer a diesel Tiago XZ with all bells and whistles over a Swift Vxi(O)? Assuming both retail at Rs.7 lakh on-road.