Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
  Search this Thread
430,902 views
Old 10th November 2018, 08:14   #466
Senior - BHPian
 
discoverwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: BLR/CBE
Posts: 1,296
Thanked: 3,649 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
PS: Although the BHP and 0-100 related figures are very similar to the City, It would be revealing to know the 30-80 kind of timings for this car which could reflect the true nature of the engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth46 View Post
Something I'm very interested as well, BHP is just a few shy of the City, even though hugely different engines. Would be good to see how it stacks up vis-a-vis the proven iVTEC.
Already provided here in this post #189.

Tiago JTP
0-100 kph in 9.95 sec
20-80 kph in 9.10 sec
40-100 kph in 11.8 sec

Tigor JTP
0-100 kph in 10.38 sec
20-80 kph in 9.14 sec
40-100 kph in 11.97 sec

Last edited by discoverwild : 10th November 2018 at 08:26.
discoverwild is offline   (13) Thanks
Old 12th November 2018, 14:10   #467
BHPian
 
sathya.bhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: KA19/KA01
Posts: 143
Thanked: 569 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

I had a chance to test drive Tiago JTP.
For now, I will just restrict myself to few pics comparing Tiago and Tiago JTP.

The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs-img_20181111_100515.jpg

The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs-img_20181111_100525.jpg

The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs-img_20181111_102528.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
4. Car had done 400 odd kms and with no breaks. Clutch felt it had lost its bite and could sense a little clutch burning smell.
I think, I drove the same car as you. I can confirm that, there was no issues with either brakes/clutch. The clutch was light and a breeze to operate. The brakes also had a great bite. I enjoyed driving the car.
sathya.bhat is offline   (21) Thanks
Old 12th November 2018, 19:53   #468
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NCR/ KOL/ BLR
Posts: 1,138
Thanked: 2,042 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

I took a TD of a JTP yesterday and came back disappointed. I guess my expectations were pretty high.

Likes
  • Brilliant suspension setup for a car of that segment. Near zero body roll even during high speed turns.
  • Steering great to hold and weighted well.
  • Loved the seats.
  • Good progressive braking for a disc-drum setup
  • Sporty exhaust note, though would have preferred it a bit louder
  • The sound of the turbo spooling and blow off. Very prominent and addictive.

Dislikes
  • Engine noise, coarse and really irritating. Big turnoff. Also it drowns the sporty exhaust with the horrible engine noise.
  • Pulls post 3000 RPM, horrible low end, and even after 3k not that great pull. Expected more. Shorter gearing did not help either. I would still prefer my Ritz or Ignis.
  • Simple features like power folding mirrors not available.

All in all, I wouldn't be able to justify it as a performance hatch if I bought one. Compared to the normal Tiago/Tigor petrol (which feels dead) this is definitely way better, however I donot think it to be vastly different from the Maruti 1.2 siblings in terms of fun and performance.

Last edited by Altocumulus : 12th November 2018 at 19:56.
Altocumulus is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 12th November 2018, 20:37   #469
BHPian
 
ksameer1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 775
Thanked: 2,700 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
All in all, I wouldn't be able to justify it as a performance hatch if I bought one. Compared to the normal Tiago/Tigor petrol (which feels dead) this is definitely way better, however I donot think it to be vastly different from the Maruti 1.2 siblings in terms of fun and performance.
This is a surprising observation. I haven't seen JTP in flesh let alone drive one so can't give my version but as per the numbers shared by Tata during the launch (link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4484008 (The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs)) Tiago JTP is 4.5 sec faster from 20-80 kph and almost 8 sec faster from 40-100 kph compared to Swift. This is significantly fast on paper.

Could your observation be due to the fact that JTP is able to mask the speed better due to improved handling characteristics? If not, then it would be a big dampener if JTP do not offer a significant performance jump against competition.
ksameer1234 is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 12th November 2018, 21:33   #470
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Delhi,Ludhiana
Posts: 1,689
Thanked: 3,051 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
I took a TD of a JTP yesterday.
I see from most of your posts that you are living in Delhi, would you please mention which dealer has the TD car available?
agambhandari is offline  
Old 12th November 2018, 22:23   #471
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,487
Thanked: 2,251 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
This is a surprising observation. I haven't seen JTP in flesh let alone drive one so can't give my version but as per the numbers shared by Tata during the launch (link: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4484008 (The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs)) Tiago JTP is 4.5 sec faster from 20-80 kph and almost 8 sec faster from 40-100 kph compared to Swift. This is significantly fast on paper.

Could your observation be due to the fact that JTP is able to mask the speed better due to improved handling characteristics? If not, then it would be a big dampener if JTP do not offer a significant performance jump against competition.
You nailed it. If you have a car that does 0-100 under 10 seconds and then you call it a non performer with no pull etc it would be amazing to understand how a maruti with far off performance figures performs better.
I have friends who are used to driving a naturally aspirated car and they find it difficult to drive the linea tjet and abarth and they share a similar experience that the turbo cars dont feel fast.
Other fact is they dont even come to know how fast they are going unless they see the speedo. A fiat doing 140 kmph will feel like a maruti doing 60 kmph. The JTP being a good handling car will give a similar experience.
amit_mechengg is offline   (23) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 02:05   #472
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NCR/ KOL/ BLR
Posts: 1,138
Thanked: 2,042 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksameer1234 View Post
Could your observation be due to the fact that JTP is able to mask the speed better due to improved handling characteristics? If not, then it would be a big dampener if JTP do not offer a significant performance jump against competition.
Not Really, these figures are good as long as the engine is boiling above 3000 RPM else there is horrible lag before that.

Ideally, 20-80 kmph figures are calculated in 3rd gear and 40-100 in 4th gears. The JTP in similar gears would face horrible lag initially. So not sure of the gears of all the cars in the figures posted by Rushlane (though the ones for Swift looks like 3rd and 4th gears respectively). Also the JTP engines are not free revving at all compared to the K series engines, so power buildup takes time. That said if both are in 2nd gear, thanks to the longer gearing of the kseries cars and much lighter kerb weight of swift (near 175 kgs) they wouldn't be 8.5 secs behind for sure. Its a difference of ~15bhp PTW and ~11 NM TTW with a heavy lag lower down and a dead engine below 3000 RPM. I drive a Ignis as a city runabout which is even lighter so difference above is even lesser.
I am again saying it is a much better alternative than a normal Tiago but not a big jump as a daily driver over the other 1.2 alternatives available except the GT Tsi ofcourse. If you are buying it just to use for highways and tracks where the revs can be managed to be kept high, then yes maybe it's a decent choice. But again if someone has the resources to buy a hatch just for that, am sure they can afford the proper hot hatches like an Abarth or GT . Why would they buy a Tiago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
I see from most of your posts that you are living in Delhi, would you please mention which dealer has the TD car available?
I am in Bangalore at the moment on a business trip. Had free time over the weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
You nailed it. If you have a car that does 0-100 under 10 seconds and then you call it a non performer with no pull etc it would be amazing to understand how a maruti with far off performance figures performs better.
I have friends who are used to driving a naturally aspirated car and they find it difficult to drive the linea tjet and abarth and they share a similar experience that the turbo cars dont feel fast.
Other fact is they dont even come to know how fast they are going unless they see the speedo. A fiat doing 140 kmph will feel like a maruti doing 60 kmph. The JTP being a good handling car will give a similar experience.
I never said it isn't better, but said it was not something to go gaga over.
A stock Linea too faces horrible lag lower down, which is why most of us remap it right ? Rajiv from Wolf Moto lives on remapping TJets A stock Linea is not significantly faster 0-100 or in-gear than a Honda City, if at all, even with higher torque figures. Then comes the gearing. The turbo charged car in stock runs out of breath much earlier than the ivtec in a particular gear, where the City keeps pulling till 7000 thanks to the vtec kicking in. Then there is the weight advantage. So if people say that a Linea doesn't feel faster than a NA car like Honda City, I dont think it is all rubbish.

I am saying this all on experience and not reading reviews. Till a couple of months back, I owned both a new 2017 City, a Civic and a Laura Tsi side by side. Additionally one of my closest friend owns a remapped Linea Tjet which I drive a lot. All 4 cars were a part of the same garage next to each other and we did swap cars regularly. So it's not that I donot know how to drive or haven't driven turbocharged petrol cars or haven't owned cars with speed masking capabilities.

There are lots of parameters like weight, gearing, torque band, engine timing, how free revving is the engine to build power, how quickly the revs fall, etc which determines the performance of car. Just because a car has a turbo plonked doesn't really make it leaps and bounds ahead of the others. A JTP in stock form will be a headache like a stock Linea in City traffic. A remap would shift the balance though, hopefully.

To be clear, when compared against it's segment consisting Wagon R, Celerio, Santro, etc it is a great car. However when you get the price in picture it falls in the range of Swift Zxi, Ignis Zeta/Alpha, Baleno, etc. There these are cars offer much more overall with a very little compromise in outright performance.

Last edited by Altocumulus : 13th November 2018 at 02:21.
Altocumulus is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 04:04   #473
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,487
Thanked: 2,251 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
I never said it isn't better, but said it was not something to go gaga over.
A stock Linea too faces horrible lag lower down, which is why most of us remap it right ? Rajiv from Wolf Moto lives on remapping TJets A stock Linea is not significantly faster 0-100 or in-gear than a Honda City, if at all, even with higher torque figures. Then comes the gearing. The turbo charged car in stock runs out of breath much earlier than the ivtec in a particular gear, where the City keeps pulling till 7000 thanks to the vtec kicking in. Then there is the weight advantage. So if people say that a Linea doesn't feel faster than a NA car like Honda City, I dont think it is all rubbish.

So it's not that I donot know how to drive or haven't driven turbocharged petrol cars or haven't owned cars with speed masking capabilities.

To be clear, when compared against it's segment consisting Wagon R, Celerio, Santro, etc it is a great car. However when you get the price in picture it falls in the range of Swift Zxi, Ignis Zeta/Alpha, Baleno, etc. There these are cars offer much more overall with a very little compromise in outright performance.
First of all let me mention this, i was not referring to your experience in particular, i was mentioning a general trend which i have faced many times with friends.
Mine was perhaps the first Linea to be remapped, Rajiv is a very dear friend and we both have spent considerable amount of time in logging the data, extensive testing and making the maps better and better. Its just that Wolf is the perfect remap with switches for fiat cars and hence people prefer them.

There are legendary NA cars like Honda Vtec and Palio 1.6 which are high compression, high revving engines and their gearboxes are so perfectly matched to the engine that they will never feel slower than equivalent turbo car even when you are on the roll. But this equation changes when you try to compare tjet with ciaz etc. There is a thread named quantitative/qualitative analysis of indian cars and the charts clearly show that the MJD as well as Tjet are way ahead in terms of in gear acceleration(faster than 2.0 cedia). Remap just makes it better.

Turbo increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine and the same capacity engine performs better. I have myself supercharged my 1.6 NA high revving engine and i know how better it runs than the NA avatar.

I do not deny that the JTP will have a bit more lag than the NA 1.2 maruti engine, but then i feel the difference ends there. I have driven the nexon petrol for fair amount of time in the city and it just took me 2-3 kms to understand whats the good way to drive it.

If all the reviewers and test reports show that its a sub 10 second performance car, tuned by Jayem with goodies like tuned exhaust, great brakes, nice tuned suspension, best handing under 10 lacs etc i dont see a point that i should even compare them with 1.2 maruti siblings or the new santro which cost more than the tiago JTP. This car offers way more than just outright performance, a kind of experience which we get from modifying our stock cars from reputed tuners.
amit_mechengg is offline   (24) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 14:52   #474
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NCR/ KOL/ BLR
Posts: 1,138
Thanked: 2,042 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Turbo increases the volumetric efficiency of the engine and the same capacity engine performs better. I have myself supercharged my 1.6 NA high revving engine and i know how better it runs than the NA avatar.
Completely agree with you, Amit and I love your Palio trust me . And even with the JTP, it's a hell and heaven difference compared to it's NA sibling. The JTP is brilliant if you compare them in isolation. I just said that it's not so much compared to the VVT engines of the competition in outright performance. They are 2 different engines with different personas altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
If all the reviewers and test reports show that its a sub 10 second performance car, tuned by Jayem with goodies like tuned exhaust, great brakes, nice tuned suspension, best handing under 10 lacs etc i dont see a point that i should even compare them with 1.2 maruti siblings or the new santro which cost more than the tiago JTP. This car offers way more than just outright performance, a kind of experience which we get from modifying our stock cars from reputed tuners.
Those are exactly the points which I loved about the car, I don't deny that. But considering the Tiago JTP as the only or first car in the house or the 2nd car for a city runabout (2 reasons which majority of the people buy small cars), with that price, size and low end performance it, at least in my opinion, doesn't make sense. It's a warm hatch at best. Also the exhaust note is great from outside, however from inside the car the only thing you will sadly hear is the horrible thrum of the 3 cylinder engine. However, the disclaimer is I am used to and love the engine noise of Suzuki and Honda petrols.

A Swift Zxi in Bangalore is 7.87L OTR while a Tiago JTP is 7.85L OTR. Add the discounts of Maruti to it at least at this moment, which makes it significantly cheaper. The Swift will give you so much more in features, great resale, more space and significantly easier to drive in the city and the tag of a premium hatch.

I am a very finicky and impulsive guy. People who know me will vouch for it. Even though I am a die hard Honda fan, I sold off my new 2017 Honda City within a year, even though the car didnt give a single issue and was in mint condition. Just because I didn't like the NVH, engine noise at lower revs and overall quality compared to the previous 2010 one I owned, I let go of it. I have even sold of cars within 3 months of buying if my heart goes for something better. Similarly I would have bought the JTP for me, exchanged the Alto which my mom uses and given the Ignis to her. But no, it didnot make a case that strong for itself. My point is if someone drives it after driving a Celerio, WagonR, etc it is great. Awesome actually. But for someone who drives a Ignis or new Swift back to back with the JTP, the difference is not something for them to book on spot. I just shifted from Bangalore to Delhi a couple of months back. I drive 27 kms from South Delhi to Gurgaon for office in peak time. How much opportunities will I get to exploit the brilliant handling. Maybe once a week when I am late to or from office. For weekends I have my civic which will be much more fun.

Look at it this way, it is not the first time a manufacturer has come with the performance version of a not so great car. Polo 1.2 NA vs GT Tsi, and Punto vs Abarth Punto however they create a separate segment altogether which does not spill over to anything similar of a higher segment. There is no NA hatch to even come close. On the other side of the coin, a Baleno RS didnot do well because it didnot give much compared to a regular one and definitely not compared to a GT or Abarth. How I wish, Fiat had great service to back their buyers up, the Abarth and Linea would have been such great cars to own. However the Tiago JTP does spill over to a segment with brilliant NA engines which does come close. Please don't get me wrong, the Tiago JTP in isolation is a brilliant car. However, when you look at the 30,000 ft view with what is available at the same price and taking into consideration all the other parameters, it will not have buyers run to the showrooms for it.

By the way, the Tigor JTP does make a very very good case in the sub 4M segment. If someone is in the market for the same it is a car to strongly consider. I would buy it, if I were. It's priced near a diesel Aspire Trend (an enthusiast would buy the Diesel) or a Dzire Zxi.

Last edited by Altocumulus : 13th November 2018 at 14:58.
Altocumulus is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 18:28   #475
WDB
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 26
Thanked: 67 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

I am waiting for team-bhp's review of the JTP. When is it expected

I am looking to buy the JTP Tigor
WDB is offline  
Old 13th November 2018, 18:32   #476
BHPian
 
Roy.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 706
Thanked: 936 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

I just came back from a short test drive on the Tigor JTP and did not find it lacking in low end grunt. This was the first time I've driven a turbocharged car and my current car is a first gen Swift (1.3l engine). The TD was on the crowded Lalbagh Rd- Double Rd. stretch and I couldn't get it beyond 2nd gear. If your floor it in 2nd you will end up with a grin on your face.
Roy.S is online now   (9) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 21:10   #477
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 90
Thanked: 156 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

So far, the ratio of likers to non-likers of the JTP Twin: approximately 5:1
IMO, a sub 10-sec performance is a sub 10-sec performance. Even taking into consideration the turbo lag it will pull much more than the MS engines. Waiting for the TBHP review now.

Last edited by bblost : 13th November 2018 at 22:26. Reason: No more than 2 smileys per post.
Kuldeep31 is offline  
Old 13th November 2018, 22:44   #478
BHPian
 
Roy.S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 706
Thanked: 936 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

The one thing that I found absolutely horrifying was the exposed inner part of the boot lid. You can see the metal stiffeners and the wiring. It looks so shabby that I was sure the showroom guys had removed a panel to access the wiring. They assured me that they had not tampered with it. I rummaged around in the boot hoping to find the missing panel because I couldn't believe that Tata would skimp on a cheap bit of plastic. Somehow that annoyed me more than it should.

Last edited by Roy.S : 13th November 2018 at 22:47.
Roy.S is online now   (2) Thanks
Old 13th November 2018, 22:44   #479
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,487
Thanked: 2,251 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post

Those are exactly the points which I loved about the car, I don't deny that. But considering the Tiago JTP as the only or first car in the house or the 2nd car for a city runabout (2 reasons which majority of the people buy small cars), with that price, size and low end performance it, at least in my opinion, doesn't make sense. It's a warm hatch at best.

My point is if someone drives it after driving a Celerio, WagonR, etc it is great. Awesome actually. But for someone who drives a Ignis or new Swift back to back with the JTP, the difference is not something for them to book on spot.
However the Tiago JTP does spill over to a segment with brilliant NA engines which does come close. Please don't get me wrong, the Tiago JTP in isolation is a brilliant car. However, when you look at the 30,000 ft view with what is available at the same price and taking into consideration all the other parameters, it will not have buyers run to the showrooms for it.
By the way, the Tigor JTP does make a very very good case in the sub 4M segment. If someone is in the market for the same it is a car to strongly consider. I would buy it, if I were. It's priced near a diesel Aspire Trend (an enthusiast would buy the Diesel) or a Dzire Zxi.
, we too have marutis in family right from Alto 800, K10 to Dezire. No arguments that these are good cars for indian families who want to travel point A to point B, want good resale and good service.

Then there are cars like Polo TSI, Fiat Abarth and Tjet etc which offer way more than just mere point A to B cars, isn't it?

Lets keep aside swift or ignis for a while. Consider celerio, santro, a star etc. I can surely vouch that the Tiago offers much more than these cars. The build quality, the suspension set up and quality, the music system ( easily adds INR 25k value), tyres, exhaust, turbo etc and the drive modes clearly differentiates Tiago than the other cars in the same segment.

The market is maturing a lot, social media is educating even an average indian buyer. I am confident that the trend of reviewing thoroughly before buying the first car is increasing and this shows strongly on the sales figures of Tiago over the past year. I wish JTP a success it deserves.

https://www.rushlane.com/tata-beats-...12287088.html/

Tata Motors 2018 sales growth higher than Maruti, Hyundai – Tiago, Nexon help
Tata Motors has posted 32% growth for the year 2018. This is about five times the growth rate of Indian auto industry, which has grown by 6.4% in the same period.

Eagerly waiting for the official TBHP review, we just had a small trailer which was very positive.
amit_mechengg is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 14th November 2018, 01:33   #480
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 17,126
Thanked: 73,296 Times
Re: The Tata Tigor JTP & Tiago JTP. EDIT: Launched at Rs 6.39 - 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
However when you get the price in picture it falls in the range of Swift Zxi, Ignis Zeta/Alpha, Baleno, etc. There these are cars offer much more overall with a very little compromise in outright performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
That said if both are in 2nd gear, thanks to the longer gearing of the kseries cars and much lighter kerb weight of swift (near 175 kgs) they wouldn't be 8.5 secs behind for sure.
The reason why those Maruti's feel faster is primarily because of the weight. Like you mentioned, they are way lighter despite being from a segment above.

Now, I wish I could sing praises for it, I really do - but we've clearly seen in NCAP tests how Maruti has compromised on safety for these weight reductions in the name of profits and FE. 2 stars even with dual airbags!

No use crying when such NCAP reports come out, and then using those products as benchmarks against every other competition - Only result is that Maruti will be singing all the way to the bank while honest efforts like the JTPs will be made to suffer in sales.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (27) Thanks
Closed Thread

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks