[samaspire]

A few more pictures of the Platinums

[atrocious]

Originally Posted by aamateen46

I would suggest that you go for the GX. The changes made to the latest model does justify the premium.
On the other hand, 45k cash discount from Toyota is very rare and may be for clearing not-in-shape stock

The staff attributes the held stock to anticipation of a revamp and the resulting discount. It has been claimed that now that people have seen the new one, the old stock will clear out quickly once shraad is over.

[dileep]

Originally Posted by atrocious

Now the dilemma is between a late-manufactured fresh-off-the-line GX with everything you'd need at 790K onroad, and an existing element-braving G with a 25K saving, plus 45K cash discount, making it a round 80K difference between the outgoing and incoming one including a few other 'goodies'.

There's one more difference between the G & V (both old and new) - the wheel size and tyres. The G variant has 175/70/R14 and V has 185/60/R15. This might be a point to consider while choosing the variant.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by samaspire

A few more pictures of the Platinums

There is an error in the specs mentioned there.
Peak torque is not 170 Nm @ 1800 rpms. It's 170 Nm @ 1800 - 2400 rpms.

Originally Posted by atrocious

The real dilemma I'm facing is one someone objective, and someone who has had one for some time, will be able to help me resolve.
......
With all the facts on the table, which option makes more sense? All advice is welcome.

I would recommend the new GX for the following reasons.

• ISOFIX seatbelts
• ABS/EBD ( You might want to see this video on how both the ABS and EBD helps you in panic situations. -

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brttLXw-lt4

  )
• Foldable Rear arm rests
• Center 3 point seat belts
• Center removable head rests

All these additions add a lot of value and at the same time is difficult/impossible to add later on. Especially, the ISOFIX, ABS/EBD and center 3 point seat belts are too good features to be missed out on.

And the optitron speedo even though doesn't add much value certainly help improve the aesthetics.

Originally Posted by sibot

On another note, is there any news on the Vios?

You can follow all the VIOS news here.

It is being spotted testing twice within the last couple of weeks in Bangalore as well as Kochi. But, knowing Toyota, we cannot predict its release date though. It took them 5 years of road testing in Indian roads before releasing the Etios in India. It's not by chance that the Toyota Etios won both the JD power dependability awards in 2015 ( for cars manufactured in 2011/2012 ) and the same in 2016 ( for cars manufactured in 2012/2013 ). This is inspite of the fact that the Etios is most abused sedan in its class. A 3 to 4 year old Etios taxi would have covered 1.5 lakhs to 2 lakhs kms on the odo.

So, with Toyota, unlike other manufacturers who churns out new models and dash board every year, you have to be patient.

For the latest in engine technology, we have the VW.
For the feature rich option, we have the Hyundai.
For a practical and dependable sedan, we have the Toyotas.

So, for each type of consumer, we have a choice.

And that dependability is as a result of the conservative and quality conscious philosophy that they choose. It's not like you put in all the features given by the competition, badge it as Toyota and then suddenly the dependability will come in. Inside Toyota, even a modification as simple as a nut or bolt is only done if really needed. A time tested design is rarely changed by them.

End of the day, Toyota should not compromise on what they are good at. For other requirements, we have a lot of brands to choose from. But, when it comes to long term durability and dependability, the first name that always comes in is Toyota. So, as a consumer, depending on what our priorities and expectations are from a car, we should choose the brand. A Toyota should remain a Toyota and a Hyundai should remain a Hyundai. The winner is the consumer who can choose what he wants. All manufacturers trying to be the same will only bring down choices.

[atrocious]

Originally Posted by amalji

• ABS/EBD ( You might want to see this video on how both the ABS and EBD helps you in panic situations. )

All these additions add a lot of value and at the same time is difficult/impossible to add later on. Especially, the ISOFIX, ABS/EBD and center 3 point seat belts are too good features to be missed out on.

I agree, it is the biggest selling point for the GX. Having said that, what is this I read about ABS being counter-productive on loose surface conditions?

[hkborah]

Originally Posted by vivekgk

You hit the nail on the head right there, hkborah. The only reason Indians have been getting obsolete products from Toyota below 15L is because we keep on paying a premium for obsolete stuff, citing quality. It's difficult to believe that with all of Toyota's global expertise and experience in building cars, the best they can do is the Etios and Liva in their segments. It is arrogance at it's worst. Any other manufacturer would have junked that dashboard years ago and replaced it with a nicer one. Honda, Fiat, Nissan, Tata, Mahindra, have all had issues with bad interiors and have updated the interiors timely. With Etios, we get new stickers and different coloured plastics.

Its no different above 15L.

New Fortuner delayed making Delhi 2000cc plus ban an excuse. Now maybe they will rethink.

Landcruiser is 85K USD in USA - tad under 60 Lakhs. They charge us 1.29 crore. When we get the same model its atleast 2X. When we don't its obsolete cars like Etios. Either they will sell at a higher price, or cut costs by providing older models.

When Toyota thinks about Toyota, and customer thinks about Toyota, who will think about the customer?

[Sawyer]

ABS is meant for loose surfaces situations! Perhaps what was being said that is an expert driver in a car without ABS will do better than an ordinary one who just presses the ABS equipped pedal and waits for the car to stop. Very true, but it takes an expert at the top of his game - not even one that is tired.

Originally Posted by hkborah

When Toyota thinks about Toyota, and customer thinks about Toyota, who will think about the customer?

A funny, but meaningless statement, I am sorry to say.

If you don't like the price being asked, don't buy the car! Every company has rational pricing policies; that some people don't like them doesn't mean they aren't rational, it just means some people don't like them.

[atrocious]

Despite heavy cash savings, the opinion seems to be in the favour of the incoming GX. Let's see if someone comes up with a different perspective, all facts for the choices on ground remaining as stated. Waiting for more!

On a different note, Toyota has definitely made the buying more lucrative, or tempting shall I say, with their in-house 100% on-road financing for those who fit the 'profile'. At the end of the day, if you are not the saving kind, the least you have to pay upfront does change the dynamics of the game a lot.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by atrocious

I agree, it is the biggest selling point for the GX. Having said that, what is this I read about ABS being counter-productive on loose surface conditions?

It's in very loose terrain like in the snowy condition that ABS can at times be counter productive due to lesser than needed brake bite. But, in most cases, it saves you. And it's not just the ABS/EBD that helps, the Etios brakes are one of the best I've ever used ( be it the stopping distance, brake bite or the progressive feel ).

And one thing you need to keep in mind when you use ABS is not to take the foot of the pedal when you get those ABS vibrations on the brake pedal. People who are new to ABS have this tendency. You should continue to press the brake hard and then steer clear of the obstruction in front. The biggest advantage is that your steering can still steer the vehicle even when full brake force is applied unlike in a non-ABS vehicle where it just skids on.

EBD helps maintain straight line ( or whichever direction you are asking your vehicle to go ) braking by supplying different brake pressure to each wheels. It's not just the engine specs that help you cruise at a higher speed, but other factors like these which are very often ignored by a typical car buyer in India.

Originally Posted by hkborah

Its no different above 15L.
Landcruiser is 85K USD in USA - tad under 60 Lakhs. They charge us 1.29 crore.
When we get the same model its atleast 2X.

Isn't that due to the 125% import duty our country is charging Toyota ?

Originally Posted by hkborah

When we don't its obsolete cars like Etios. Either they will sell at a higher price, or cut costs by providing older models.

This obsolete model is still

• The only model that is a made in India under 10L and still gets a 4 Star NCAP rating, giving a structure that's as stable as what they sell overseas in Brazil and South Africa.
• The only brand other than VW who sells every single variant with Airbags.
• The only vehicle in India under 20 Lakhs which has a "Made in Japan" Diesel engine
• Has a Diesel engine maintenance cost which is cheaper than an Alto Petrol
• Has the highest replacement intervals for parts for any cars that is sold in India and which is better than the Corolla and is comparable to the Innova
• Has the cabin space and boot space that beats their own Corolla
• Has the driving dynamics that beats their own Corolla
• The best service and support you could ever get in India.

And I'm glad that when Toyota wanted to price a car below the range they normally compete in, they didn't compromise on the fundamentals or safety aspect and instead decided to cut down on the aesthetics part of it.

Would I have preferred a better looking speedo ? Certainly yes, but not at the cost of the other factors that Toyota stands for. So, a VIOS will be a welcome move from Toyota. But, Etios still has its place. When today, I look around for buying a new car after 5 years and 1.1 lakh kms of Etios use, Etios still stays there right at the top of the list.

Originally Posted by hkborah

When Toyota thinks about Toyota, and customer thinks about Toyota, who will think about the customer?

Inspite of all this, Toyota just made about 529 crores profit last year, after selling 0.013 crore vehicles in that year which takes their profit margin to 40,000 INR per car sold. You have to also consider the fact that 60% of that volume is on Innova, Fortuner, Corolla and Camry. I'm sure the Etios profit margin would be in the range of 15,000 INR per car sold. Does that profit margin look very high for you ? And the previous year, Toyota India was on loses as well.

[hkborah]

Still doesn't justify. Vios is a more modern replacement for the Etios. Do fee free to spend your money on the Etios- Platinum.
Probably the best in the consideration bucket. What I'm disputing is the consideration bucket itself.
I rest my case. Let us agree to disagree on the Etios. They won't get my money till they get in modern technology.

[mpksuhas]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Attachment 1555958

They are mentioning Front disc brakes and rear drum brakes too as features

They seem to be going the Maruti way Remember the left rear view mirror feature in Omni. Link

[atrocious]

Originally Posted by hkborah

Still doesn't justify.
...
They won't get my money till they get in modern technology.

What would justify X-whatever the X is-for you, apart from the kindergartenesque dashboard song?

Also, please elucidate what 'modern technology' entails in the context? It is increasingly becoming a case of won't agree than a one of don't agree.

Originally Posted by mpksuhas

They are mentioning Front disc brakes and rear drum brakes too as features

They seem to be going the Maruti way Remember the left rear view mirror feature in Omni. Link

There are two basic types of consumer campaigns:

• Promotional, to entice people into buying on an emotional level; and
  Informational, for people who are more interested in the specifications than the emotion

How would you react to 'Coming home to Siyaram's' if they were to give you a proportional picture of viscose, rayon, cotton, and other blends in their fabrics? May be you won't to the pitch either because of various personal preferences, but the campaign will do much better for the average buyer than a chemical breakdown.

In contrast, I think of how I would react to someone trying to sell me the latest laptop, or any other gadget for that matter, using a 'heart-to-heart' campaign; I would say, "Drop the pitch, tell me what's it got".

Where do you see any bit of a sales pitch in the attachment that you quoted that lists the brakes, or anything else, as a 'feature' that is being promoted? It is a strictly informational piece that is just listing out what the car has in a little more presentable manner.

You want to see what they are 'promoting', you need to look here.

https://youtu.be/kgUFfj9FXyU

I am all for thrashing out all the perspectives at any length, the only condition being we stay on point and talk sense. The matters of heart can be fun too, say if one was buying a Thar , but these half-baked potshots are just plain annoying.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Speaking just to this - ...

Speak to the whole thing, if you'd please

[jhaji]

I wonder if any old Etios owner has test-driven the new Platinum Etios. It would be valuable to hear their comments on the new tweaked suspension and the supposed better NVH on the refreshed car.

To the Etios skeptics, I would like to ask what alternative would you suggest in this price bracket? Especially if I don't want to compromise on the quality of the mechanical aspects of the car - the engine, gearbox, brakes, ergonomics and also on space, reliability, dynamics?

I have been using Liva diesel for last five years. I would like to move to a petrol car with slightly bigger boot which can seat five comfortably and which is an all-rounder. By that I mean, which can be good and peppy on city roads, good on highways and also on hill roads. It can be a sedan, a crossover, or a spacious hatchback. Please suggest something better than Etios so that there would be some novelty in my ownership. Not the same old Etios twins. I can't seem to locate one!

[Sawyer]

A Honda City/Maruti Ciaz/Hyundai Verna. Take your pick.

[jhaji]

Originally Posted by Sawyer

A Honda City/Maruti Ciaz/Hyundai Verna. Take your pick.

Thanks. I have considered them even if not really really researched them in detail. Even if we leave the higher (much higher?) cost of these cars (New Etios petrol top end is 7.75) out of consideration for the time being, I thought Etios would be superior for these reasons:

-Honda City: It is more likely to scrape on big speed breakers. The new City has some niggles. It seems Etios drives better on steep inclines, as per my informant in Shimla who is a driver to the DC of shimla with both cars in their official fleet.

-Maruti Ciaz: The 1.4 petrol engine is good for sedate driving but does not have the pep. Etios 1.5 is really superior in acceleration.

-Hyndai Verna: Powerful engine but the highway dynamics is poor and the rear is bumpy at speeds making it uncomfortable for the rear seat passengers.

Of course, the interiors would be miles ahead of Etios on all three cars. But my guess is Etios would be much better on bad roads compared to all these cars.

In fact, the car which is on my radar right now as an alternative to Etios is Honda BRV 1.5 MT even though it is much costlier than Etios. It has high GC, flexible seating, projector headlamps, six gears. I am also waiting to see how the petrol 1.5 version of S-Cross turns out.