[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Sheel

A better approach, rampover/break-over angle and departure angle doesn't make it a superior off-road vehicle, but at some places, they will come in handy.

Yeah right. Go real off road and every degree counts. It could be the difference between destroying the front of your engine or just passing over the obstacle. The better the hardware, the better they are offroad.

[drifter]

You all must ask yourselves, apart from the minuscule number of buyers from this class, which of these vehicles really go off-road. Departure and approach angles come into play when one goes proper offroad. I know for a fact that most Endeavours and Fortuners and more so the LCs have never crossed a kerb, let alone lift wheels off-road.

For rough roads, this has enough technology and the supporting mechanicals to handle what the average user will throw at it. It comes with a low range gearbox which most of us will never really put to use.

One must drive (if possible back to back with competition) and then share their opinion. From a group of auto enthusiasts, one expects a more measured and responsible feedback.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by drifter

You all must ask yourselves, apart from the minuscule number of buyers from this class, which of these vehicles really go off-road. Departure and approach angles come into play when one goes proper offroad. I know for a fact that most Endeavours and Fortuners and more so the LCs have never crossed a kerb, let alone lift wheels off-road.

For rough roads, this has enough technology and the supporting mechanicals to handle what the average user will throw at it. It comes with a low range gearbox which most of us will never really put to use.

One must drive (if possible back to back with competition) and then share their opinion. From a group of auto enthusiasts, one expects a more measured and responsible feedback.

Absolutely bang on.
My 2WD Bolero and 2WD Scorpio could go more or less anywhere except some really steep rocky or slushy climbs where the wheels would spin like the blazes.
The “soft roader” Yeti, actually has all the 4x4 juice that one may need, because of its intelligent system which sends power to whichever wheels need them most. So it can happily climb steep inclines over smallish rocks or slush or even Tarmac or concrete which might be rain-washed and therefore, slippery. Saying this, I would just not take the Yeti for an off road adventure except softer trails and suchlike because it is too expensive a vehicle and I dont want to go through issues.
The typical softroader is great for snow and sludge and black ice etc, which usually occurs in the Northern latitudes.

So I had test driven a AT 2WD Jeep Compass as well as the manual version. That thing is so powerful and torquey that it can handle almost anything that one can throw at it, with its high ground clearance. I had driven it with the showroom chap and two of my friends on some really lousy roads and dirt tracks and stony construction debris ridden spaces in Bangalore a year ago. And its suspension and general power saw me through perfectly.

Same goes for the 2WD Duster which is a tough as nails vehicle for many of these semi normal situations that one may encounter in India.

So having said all this, 4WD and low range etc are strictly not necessary for most folks since the max usage is inside city limits and highways and mostly on Tarmac.

And that is why right from the 1970’s through the 1980’s and 1990’s etc as per my Dad’s input, when we lived on the tea estates, one always had to specially order the 4WD versions of the Mahindra Jeeps and MM540’s and so on.

Only the Gypsy always had standard 4WD and never came with a 2WD variant. Only some fellows who “dieselised” the Gypsy lost their 4x4 in that process. Even the Bolero only had a 4WD for a short time - I’m not sure if one can get one now. Same goes for the Sumo too.

However, people who live in the hills or use their vehicles all the time on rough terrain, do require 4WD and for them at least, the option ought to exist. But frankly, none of these big soft-roaders will really do the job for them as an utility vehicle, simply because all of these are generally too large and ponderous.

This is why 4WD will always be a niche need. Jeep Renegade 4WD trailhawk would be a good thing to have. So would the new Suzuki Jimny. Mostly on account of their smaller size and proportions, shorter overhangs, high ground clearance and 4WD capability.

However, these shall remain a pipe dream here in India.

So, people who are enthusiasts and people who have a genuine need, will always end up sticking with the few options there are, on offer, such as the Thar, the Gypsy (till it is available) and perhaps the Duster 4WD.

Even though I have the Yeti, I may take it onto some rough terrain maybe once a year. And for the general fun and games, the old Gypsy is always there. But even this, is mostly driven on Tarmac or on dirt tracks if at all. I hardly ever put it into 4L. Except just to exercise it once in a while....

The above, ought to answer most people’s angst about the need for 4WD/ AWD in our Indian conditions.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The above, ought to answer most people’s angst about the need for 4WD/ AWD in our Indian conditions.

The added confidence in inclement weather conditions like snow,sleet and rain has also played a large role in the boost of AWD vehicles globally.
With frequent floods and cross-eyed road builders, the Indian concrete jungles are still a little wild.
Needs change with options.

Cheers.

[narayan]

Folks - have anyone seen interiors with both 2nd and 3rd row folded down ? does it create a continuous and flat base ?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by drifter

Departure and approach angles come into play when one goes proper offroad.

Any harm in discussing over here ?

This angle would not have been discussed had it been launched without a 4WD, like the Chevrolet Trailblazer.

The Trailblazer had visible homogeneous approach angle, but because it did not have a 4WD, at least I had refrained from a discussion of this angle.

A 4 Low without proper GC wouldn't help clear few obstacle and one would end up damaging one's vehicle.

As far as minuscule number of buyers for 4WD is concerned, I am one, so are few, over here on our forum. If one feels, it is a small number/is not relevant for you/someone, then one should refrain from chipping in, rather than coming up with irrelevant discussion of this angle.

Thanks.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by narayan

Folks - have anyone seen interiors with both 2nd and 3rd row folded down ? does it create a continuous and flat base ?

Yes it does fold to a long continuous flatbed.
The loading lip is high and the bay deep, so there is a narrow plank lid on the rear most section provided with storing space beneath it. This height matches that of the folded flat bed to ensure continuous flat from back to front.

[Superleggera]

Originally Posted by shashanka

Very well put, Scorpion! - Why indeed? With the kind of range at our disposal (our Purans, Vedas and all the other epics would put any other cultural collection to shame!) all the mfrs. should be spoilt for choice. Instead they go hunting in the Basque script and elsewhere! Reminds me of the time a few decades or so ago when Maserati decided to name their exotics after mid-Eastern/ Mediterranean hot winds (https://www.motorwebmuseum.it/en/pla...ter-the-winds/). Unfortunately, this didn't save Maserati from going under and their current resuscitation has come about in just the nick of time!

Slightly Off topic. We had a pure desi name from HM, the "Veer", also the "Gurkha" from Force
Not sure if veer has seen the road ever.
Source.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by Superleggera

Slightly Off topic. We had a pure desi name from HM, the "Veer", also the "Gurkha" from Force
Not sure if veer has seen the road ever.
Source.

I knew this as the Porter a long time back. Looks like they exhumed it as the Veer :-)

[drifter]

Originally Posted by Sheel

If one feels, it is a small number/is not relevant for you/someone, then one should refrain from chipping in, rather than coming up with irrelevant discussion of this angle.

Thanks.

No discussion is irrelevant and every opinion is allowed a voice. That's the point of forums.

Vehicles are always manufactured for the masses. The small percentage of buyers which do go off-road including me don't matter to a manufacturer. One knows that most of these vehicles will barely see off-road. Volumes matter and sadly you or I are not part of the statistic for this particular product. Rough roading - the Alturas will do just as well as any other vehicle in the market. And that's what it really is meant for.

Having a 4x4 Low Range in a heavy SUV is more of a requirement because of the weight and not necessarily the severity of an obstacle because clearly the Alturas/Endeavour/Fortuners are not meant to be mountain goats. For that one must buy a Gurkha/Gypsy/Thar.

[Turbanator]

Originally Posted by drifter

One knows that most of these vehicles will barely see off-road. Volumes matter and sadly you or I are not part of the statistic for this particular product. Rough roading - the Alturas will do just as well as any other vehicle in the market. And that's what it really is meant for.

clearly the Alturas/Endeavour/Fortuners are not meant to be mountain goats. For that one must buy a Gurkha/Gypsy/Thar.

Have a look at the fellow mod's youtube channel, this video is from last week. Now imagine the Altura in these conditions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-BcC0Gwbow&t=6s

From my experience, I can tell you that there is an increasing number of people who want to try a thing or two in such conditions, though at the same time, you are correct, the number of such people is very little. I understand from a friendly SA here, 4x2 variant of Fortuner sells more or similar to the 4x4, so maybe Mahindra can get away with this, perhaps they can have a loaded 4x2 model at a lower price point in future. So, as far 4x4 capabilities are concerned, this looks to be a half-hearted effort to me.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by drifter

Having a 4x4 Low Range in a heavy SUV is more of a requirement because of the weight and not necessarily the severity of an obstacle because clearly the Alturas/Endeavour/Fortuners are not meant to be mountain goats. For that one must buy a Gurkha/Gypsy/Thar.

Spot on. I don't think a manufacturer, let alone a struggling one, would do something that doesn't make any business sense. I don't see anyone putting these beautiful vehicles through a tough terrain such as a rocky path. If the vehicle has high ground clearance and can handle slush and gravel well, then that should 'tick' the requirement. Many of the vehicles we see in those off-roading Youtube videos never saw any off-roading apart from that showcasing exercise, IMO.

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Now imagine the Altura in these conditions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivjQwNPX4E8

[Turbanator]

@vigneshkumar31: Looks like you got the answer

Hope, the guys reading this thread can make out what's showcasing and what's actual real-world stuff.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Spot on. I don't think a manufacturer, let alone a struggling one, would do something that doesn't make any business sense. I don't see anyone putting these beautiful vehicles through a tough terrain such as a rocky path. If the vehicle has high ground clearance and can handle slush and gravel well, then that should 'tick' the requirement. Many of the vehicles we see in those off-roading Youtube videos never saw any off-roading apart from that showcasing exercise, IMO.

[drifter]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

Have a look at the fellow mod's Youtube channel, this video is from last week. Now imagine the Altura in these conditions ..


From my experience, I can tell you that there is an increasing number of people who want to try a thing or two in such conditions, though at the same time, you are correct, the number of such people is very little. I understand from a friendly SA here, 4x2 variant of Fortuner sells more or similar to the 4x4, so maybe Mahindra can get away with this, perhaps they can have a loaded 4x2 model at a lower price point in future. So, as far 4x4 capabilities are concerned, this looks to be a half-hearted effort to me.

What that video shows is sand driving which the Mahindra is fully capable of taking on. Yes a manual transmission would've been great. But any SUV with 4x4 low can take on sand in varying degrees.

Sand driving is all about momentum and horsepower. 180hp/420nm for 2.1 tonnes with low range is perfectly usable. That's 88hp per tonne and 200nm per tonne.

Having driven the Alturas in sand, it's not as bad as one may think. Don't think we should paint it as a half-hearted effort since most of us have not even driven it in these conditions.