Hindustan Motors sells brand 'Ambassador' to Peugeot-Citroen

jetti · 21st February 2017, 23:40

That's quite an achievement for Premier. Apart from sinking itself, scarred 2 international automotive giants for life!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadsack

I have this information from somebody who was once big in Hindustan Motors and he has sworn me to secrecy. Peugeot is jittery about India since their last encounter with the Indian car market with Premier.

In case of Peugeot, it got burned twice. Let down by partners in 2 different sectors. No wonder they want to be cautious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgiitk

However, the brand has been battered is beyond doubt by Premier and the moped chaps (was it TVS?). So a fresh start is called for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadsack

The Peugeot mopeds were battered by the bad marketing of a Mysore based company called Chamundi Mopeds. TVS was not involved with Peugeot at all.

Those who've driven Peugeots in Europe, how's the ride quality of their most popular cars?

Rob UK · 22nd February 2017, 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetti

Those who've driven Peugeots in Europe, how's the ride quality of their most popular cars?

Peugeot are generally pretty good.

Their main reputation is for building practical and tough diesel estate cars with huge load space and fun small hatchbacks, particularly good sports / hot hatch models.

They will be remembered as the first manufacturer to bring a hatchback based folding hard top convertible to the affordable mass market with the Peugeot 206 Cabriolet.

The Peugeot 205 1.9 GTi is probably the greatest 'hot hatch' ever built.

They have not really broken much ground in recent years though, Ford really caught them napping with the 1.0 Ecoboost

jbpanda · 22nd February 2017, 17:08

Glad to share that our Law Firm advised HML in the transaction!

vinay kamath · 24th February 2017, 14:08

"CITY CITY BANG BANG - Rebirth of Ambassador"
SANTOSH DESAI, Feb 19 2017 : The Times of India (Kolkata)

The selling of the Ambassador brand to Peugeot is an eyebrow raiser. Why would anyone want to revive a car that is deservedly dead and in the minds of many , took far too long in its death sequence a la a Hindi film hero in the 70s? Clearly , Peugeot has no interest in the car in its physical form; what it is buying is the idea of the Ambassador, and the meaning that it can give it in today's context.
There is something about the Ambassador that lends itself to nostalgic affection. Unlike the more `sensible' Fiat which offered a timid version of the modern, and hence stops short of evoking an era and a culture, the Ambassador's relation with the modern was frosty . It remained steadfastly true to its own sensibilities, largely because it refused to change or perhaps lacked the capability to do so. Barring minor modifications that were universally mocked at for their transparent lack of ambition, the Ambassador stood its ground for a long time. Eventually , it did change its engine, but it was too late. Its time was over once the hot plastic era of the Maruti made its appearance.

In its time, the Ambassador reigned supreme.Its lines were inspired by a matron's commodious petticoats and its interiors had the comfortable well-worn shabbiness of the Indian drawing room. The gears shifted with a grunt and the car began its journey with a groan. It drove one with the laconic recalcitrance of the father while offering you the familiar comfort of a mother's lap. One sprawled inside the car when not carrying one's entire brood of third cousins and their family friends to the railway station to receive or to see someone off in the dead of night. The car was large, solid and rounded; nothing about its design acknowledged that it was an object designed to move.Indeed it seemed to actively shun any association with aerodynamics. The Ambassador squatted on the ground, embracing its own centre of gravity . It was a car that clearly believed that it was better to waddle than to race and moved with stolid disregard for one's surroundings or one's intent. The Ambassador was status quo on wheels, a car that allowed one to stand still even as one moved and to do so with one's entire way of life intact. It pointed nowhere and took us nowhere, which was where we wanted to be.

The Ambassador was equanimity in a world where abruptness was the norm. Traffic on Indian roads might have been slow, but it was sudden. Roads disappeared from under feet, cows changed their minds about moving, buses decided to come tearing down the wrong side for a closer look and pedestrians stopped in the middle of the road to scratch themselves meditatively . The car itself was a constant source of uncertaintyit stalled, leaked oil, the brake fluid ran out at odd times; of course, it could also be repaired anywhere by virtually any mechanic and so life chugged along. The ability to accommodate anything -people, merchandise, circumstances, recurring dents and scrapes, breakdowns -without showing any sign of strain made the car a natural in the Indian context.

At the surface level, the Ambassador might offer an easy route to marketable nostalgia, particularly in the West. It is a quirky riposte to the modern, and works at the level of an ironic joke. But this is the kind of appeal that works fast and dissipates even faster. However, there is something more substantial about the idea of the Ambassador, apart from its incongruous looks.

The idea of the Ambassador potentially holds allure today because it tells us that it is possible to completely disregard context. It exposes the fuss that cars make about moving from point A to point B as being unnecessary . Neither motion nor the car as an object of desire are fetishised. According to the Ambassador, one can be a placid cow, chewing cud while the world goes on around it, spinning out of control. The individual finds no reflection in the car, the fluidity of time and fashion mean nothing to it. It restores to the car the idea of affectionate and comfortable warmth; it feels like home should.

Equanimity is the ornament of those that understand time. One doesn't have to hurry , the world doesn't need to be about oneself, one is secure in the knowledge that current events will pass however unlikely it seems today . When one is home, the world outside holds few terrors, at least for the time being. And while this idea has been born out of India and its realities, today it is unlikely that this idea will find much resonance in India for as a country , we have traded placid wisdom for prickly ambition. Even if Peugeot were to re-present the Ambassador in an acceptably contemporary form, the country today wants to see a more desirable face in the mirror. The individual wants to see himself and his future in the car he drives.The idea of the Ambassador becomes in effect a return to an earlier era, and there is little appetite for that today . Globally , on the other hand, it might be another story .

The brand's attractiveness to a company like Peugeot lies in the fact that the Ambassador is above all, a brand. It stands for an idea that is located in aculture, and it signifies a belief in some values. It has a design ethos, and a point of view about mobility and indeed, about the world we live in today . It is unlikely to offer the opportunity to build a huge global brand, but there is a truth that it speaks that could potentially create value for the French company . Shorn of the shoddy product that carried this name, it might just be that the underlying idea of the Ambassador has relevance today .

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...19022017004015

AutoAficionado · 1st June 2018, 18:30

Hi Folks,

The KING or the Veteran is gonna be back in the Indian Automobile Industry.. Ambassador car is all set to make a grand come back in the Automobile Industry

Source: Link

Cheers!!
AutoAficionado

Mods: Please move/merge if there is a thread already for the above.

timuseravan · 1st June 2018, 19:40

Sadly not the car - just the name

Quote:

PSA Groupe and C.K Birla aim to roll out the first car as a result of this venture in 2020. Sources suggest that the first product will be a hatchback and will take on the likes of Maruti Suzuki Baleno and Hyundai i20 in the segment and will also be exported to other countries. These new cars will be built at the Hindustan Motors' plant in Chennai.

anjan_c2007 · 1st June 2018, 23:17

The new car will have to bank on the brand equity created by the tough and very Indian Ambassador and its ruggedness and brute appeal.

The brand name is synonymous with the word "car" in our mindsets since childhood. This car has virtually ruled our roads from 1958 till 2000. Competition came along and the brand faded. The stodginess of HM in renewing its appeal with contemporary goodies vis-a-vis the competition, virtually killed it. In the last years the sales @400 - 500 units per month were unable to sustain production. The Kolkata/ Chennai and a few other taxi markets and a few govt buyers remained faithful till the end.

The Ambassador DNA and USP retention is very essential for the car makers HM- PSA to target the old Ambassador fans, many of whom still swear by this car.

motorworks · 2nd June 2018, 09:30

My view is that Peugeot and HM have tried to do something for the account books by having a deal of 80CR for the Brand name of Ambassador. I do not think Peugeot is actually going to launch any car by that name. Rather it must have been some account book exercise which may have saved a few crores for both the companies in their books.

Leoshashi · 24th August 2018, 20:04

TopGear reviews the outcome:

https://youtu.be/lQtRpg21dl8

peus017 · 1st April 2019, 11:10

https://auto.ndtv.com/news/ambassado...from=home-auto

Quote:

Speaking on specific conditions of anonymity, senior PSA board member and reclusive heiress Evié de Courant has shared with this reporter that the Ambassador brand will be used exclusively for electric vehicles to be sold in India only. The sub-brand will be the first new addition to the PSA family, after its last acquisition of erstwhile GM brands Opel and Vauxhall in August 2017.

While I believe PSA Peugeot-Citroen will only keep the brand name "Ambassador" so that they get a platform to start with, since the name resonates with Indian market.

volkman10 · 2nd February 2020, 09:40

Ambassador to return - Citroen is in full charge!

Quote:

Presumably, they see the intrinsic value in a brand, which not only epitomises an India of the past, but also an India of a future, which embraces its past, its immediate industrial history and yet wishes to furrow a tomorrow that is distinctively Indian in design, usage, comfort and robustness.

Quote:

it would be logical for PSA to use one of their existing models as the starting point. The ideal would be the Citroen C-Elysee, currently manufactured in both China and Spain, with the factory at Vigo (in Spain) supplying the European market. The C-Elysee is a mid-sized, front-wheel-drive saloon, based on the platform shared with the Peugeot 208 and the 301, and is a classical three-boxer, with dimensions very similar to that of the Ambassador

Quote:

the Citroen Ambassador will be much more refined, will handle very well and will be much safer and significantly more comfortable than the old warhorse, as it will carry over all the dynamic virtues of the very popular C-Elysee, which has been a very fine seller in China and Europe. In performance terms, we can expect it to be in another league altogether too, as compared to the Hindustan Ambassador, as it will be powered by a modern petrol engine, of either 1.2-litre (triple-cylinder) or a 1.6 four cylinder, developing between 72 and 115bhp, with a top speed of between 160 and 188kmph.

Link

Shreyans_Jain · 2nd February 2020, 10:01

Why in God’s name will anyone buy this awful love child of the Ambassador and the Indigo Manza in a world that has the Verna, City and Ciaz? It is as if these European brands are trying to fail in the market. You are a new brand trying to launch in a cutthroat segment of a market that operates on perception and image. You put your best foot forward, bring out your good products and try to better the existing. Like what Kia is doing. How stereotypically emotional and sentimental do they think we Indians are? We buy when we see value, not nostalgia.

dragracer567 · 2nd February 2020, 10:59

Came across this article from Overdrive magazine. They don't actually mention any statements from any sources though, so not sure if it's a clickbait!

http://overdrive.in/news-cars-auto/e...may-look-like/

Quote:

So, what could PSA be planning? Taking a leaf out of the success of the newer Minis and the Fiat 500 in Europe, PSA would do well to consider a modern Ambassador, one, which has not only the design cues and the virtues of space and comfort of the original Ambassador, but one which also captures the spirit of a bygone era. As it may not make economic sense to start with an all-new platform, it would be logical for PSA to use one of their existing models as the starting point. The ideal would be the Citroen C-Elysee, currently manufactured in both China and Spain, with the factory at Vigo (in Spain) supplying the European market. The C-Elysee is a mid-sized, front-wheel-drive saloon, based on the platform shared with the Peugeot 208 and the 301, and is a classical three-boxer, with dimensions very similar to that of the Ambassador.

DaptChatterjee · 2nd February 2020, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Came across this article from Overdrive magazine. They don't actually mention any statements from any sources though, so not sure if it's a clickbait!

It seems more like a wish/advice from Overdrive, not even a speculation. IMHO, Citroen should start with a clean slate rather than bringing in the baggage of either Ambassador or Peugeot.

1100D · 2nd February 2020, 12:57

While the article seems speculation. I do not think that the Ambassadors were liked for it's style attributes.

Ambassadors appealed for its space, robustness, reliability (because it was easily repairable everywhere) and the most important criteria, the affordable (for its time) pricetag. It represented tremendous value. Today, Ambassadors shoes are filled by the Bolero and is doing a fabulous job at it.

22nd February 2017, 17:08	#63
jbpanda BHPian Join Date: May 2016 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 197 Thanked: 259 Times	Glad to share that our Law Firm advised HML in the transaction!
	() Thanks

24th February 2017, 14:08	#64
vinay kamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MUMBAIBANGALORE Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 1,741 Times	Re: Hindustan Motors sells brand 'Ambassador' to Peugeot "CITY CITY BANG BANG - Rebirth of Ambassador" SANTOSH DESAI, Feb 19 2017 : The Times of India (Kolkata) The selling of the Ambassador brand to Peugeot is an eyebrow raiser. Why would anyone want to revive a car that is deservedly dead and in the minds of many , took far too long in its death sequence a la a Hindi film hero in the 70s? Clearly , Peugeot has no interest in the car in its physical form; what it is buying is the idea of the Ambassador, and the meaning that it can give it in today's context. There is something about the Ambassador that lends itself to nostalgic affection. Unlike the more `sensible' Fiat which offered a timid version of the modern, and hence stops short of evoking an era and a culture, the Ambassador's relation with the modern was frosty . It remained steadfastly true to its own sensibilities, largely because it refused to change or perhaps lacked the capability to do so. Barring minor modifications that were universally mocked at for their transparent lack of ambition, the Ambassador stood its ground for a long time. Eventually , it did change its engine, but it was too late. Its time was over once the hot plastic era of the Maruti made its appearance. In its time, the Ambassador reigned supreme.Its lines were inspired by a matron's commodious petticoats and its interiors had the comfortable well-worn shabbiness of the Indian drawing room. The gears shifted with a grunt and the car began its journey with a groan. It drove one with the laconic recalcitrance of the father while offering you the familiar comfort of a mother's lap. One sprawled inside the car when not carrying one's entire brood of third cousins and their family friends to the railway station to receive or to see someone off in the dead of night. The car was large, solid and rounded; nothing about its design acknowledged that it was an object designed to move.Indeed it seemed to actively shun any association with aerodynamics. The Ambassador squatted on the ground, embracing its own centre of gravity . It was a car that clearly believed that it was better to waddle than to race and moved with stolid disregard for one's surroundings or one's intent. The Ambassador was status quo on wheels, a car that allowed one to stand still even as one moved and to do so with one's entire way of life intact. It pointed nowhere and took us nowhere, which was where we wanted to be. The Ambassador was equanimity in a world where abruptness was the norm. Traffic on Indian roads might have been slow, but it was sudden. Roads disappeared from under feet, cows changed their minds about moving, buses decided to come tearing down the wrong side for a closer look and pedestrians stopped in the middle of the road to scratch themselves meditatively . The car itself was a constant source of uncertaintyit stalled, leaked oil, the brake fluid ran out at odd times; of course, it could also be repaired anywhere by virtually any mechanic and so life chugged along. The ability to accommodate anything -people, merchandise, circumstances, recurring dents and scrapes, breakdowns -without showing any sign of strain made the car a natural in the Indian context. At the surface level, the Ambassador might offer an easy route to marketable nostalgia, particularly in the West. It is a quirky riposte to the modern, and works at the level of an ironic joke. But this is the kind of appeal that works fast and dissipates even faster. However, there is something more substantial about the idea of the Ambassador, apart from its incongruous looks. The idea of the Ambassador potentially holds allure today because it tells us that it is possible to completely disregard context. It exposes the fuss that cars make about moving from point A to point B as being unnecessary . Neither motion nor the car as an object of desire are fetishised. According to the Ambassador, one can be a placid cow, chewing cud while the world goes on around it, spinning out of control. The individual finds no reflection in the car, the fluidity of time and fashion mean nothing to it. It restores to the car the idea of affectionate and comfortable warmth; it feels like home should. Equanimity is the ornament of those that understand time. One doesn't have to hurry , the world doesn't need to be about oneself, one is secure in the knowledge that current events will pass however unlikely it seems today . When one is home, the world outside holds few terrors, at least for the time being. And while this idea has been born out of India and its realities, today it is unlikely that this idea will find much resonance in India for as a country , we have traded placid wisdom for prickly ambition. Even if Peugeot were to re-present the Ambassador in an acceptably contemporary form, the country today wants to see a more desirable face in the mirror. The individual wants to see himself and his future in the car he drives.The idea of the Ambassador becomes in effect a return to an earlier era, and there is little appetite for that today . Globally , on the other hand, it might be another story . The brand's attractiveness to a company like Peugeot lies in the fact that the Ambassador is above all, a brand. It stands for an idea that is located in aculture, and it signifies a belief in some values. It has a design ethos, and a point of view about mobility and indeed, about the world we live in today . It is unlikely to offer the opportunity to build a huge global brand, but there is a truth that it speaks that could potentially create value for the French company . Shorn of the shoddy product that carried this name, it might just be that the underlying idea of the Ambassador has relevance today . http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...19022017004015
	(2) Thanks

1st June 2018, 18:30	#65
AutoAficionado BHPian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 36 Thanked: 34 Times	Ambassador car's India return! Hi Folks, The KING or the Veteran is gonna be back in the Indian Automobile Industry.. Ambassador car is all set to make a grand come back in the Automobile Industry Source: Link Cheers!! AutoAficionado Mods: Please move/merge if there is a thread already for the above.
	(6) Thanks

1st June 2018, 23:17	#67
anjan_c2007 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: India Posts: 6,374 Thanked: 9,003 Times View My Garage	Re: Ambassador car's India return! The new car will have to bank on the brand equity created by the tough and very Indian Ambassador and its ruggedness and brute appeal. The brand name is synonymous with the word "car" in our mindsets since childhood. This car has virtually ruled our roads from 1958 till 2000. Competition came along and the brand faded. The stodginess of HM in renewing its appeal with contemporary goodies vis-a-vis the competition, virtually killed it. In the last years the sales @400 - 500 units per month were unable to sustain production. The Kolkata/ Chennai and a few other taxi markets and a few govt buyers remained faithful till the end. The Ambassador DNA and USP retention is very essential for the car makers HM- PSA to target the old Ambassador fans, many of whom still swear by this car. Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 1st June 2018 at 23:19.
	(4) Thanks

2nd June 2018, 09:30	#68
motorworks Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,520 Thanked: 2,551 Times	My view is that Peugeot and HM have tried to do something for the account books by having a deal of 80CR for the Brand name of Ambassador. I do not think Peugeot is actually going to launch any car by that name. Rather it must have been some account book exercise which may have saved a few crores for both the companies in their books.
	(1) Thanks

2nd February 2020, 10:01	#72
Shreyans_Jain Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: HR 51/HR 29 Posts: 1,176 Thanked: 5,639 Times	Re: Hindustan Motors sells brand 'Ambassador' to Peugeot Why in God’s name will anyone buy this awful love child of the Ambassador and the Indigo Manza in a world that has the Verna, City and Ciaz? It is as if these European brands are trying to fail in the market. You are a new brand trying to launch in a cutthroat segment of a market that operates on perception and image. You put your best foot forward, bring out your good products and try to better the existing. Like what Kia is doing. How stereotypically emotional and sentimental do they think we Indians are? We buy when we see value, not nostalgia.
	(11) Thanks

2nd February 2020, 12:57	#75
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,391 Thanked: 4,006 Times View My Garage	Re: Hindustan Motors sells brand 'Ambassador' to Peugeot While the article seems speculation. I do not think that the Ambassadors were liked for it's style attributes. Ambassadors appealed for its space, robustness, reliability (because it was easily repairable everywhere) and the most important criteria, the affordable (for its time) pricetag. It represented tremendous value. Today, Ambassadors shoes are filled by the Bolero and is doing a fabulous job at it.
	(5) Thanks

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