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Old 17th August 2020, 18:31   #1516
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Mahindra has upped the game when it comes to the Thar. This is indeed a quantum leap ahead as compared to the current model. I understood there are 2 versions , one for leisure (lifestyle) and the other for off-roading with 16 inchers. If you go through the review videos one thing that comes out is the stiff ride quality which though improved in comparison still is going to be a problem.

Yes, I expect off-road aficionados to go after me and say that the Thar is meant to be off-road and not on tarmac. If Mahindra has gone so far towards making it more modern with all the amenities that most modern cars have, why not make an attempt to improve ride comfort as well for the leisure version? They have got it right and it ticks all the boxes, just a little more would have made it almost perfect.

I am not saying that it should drive like a sedan, surely the ride quality could be smoother/better?
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Old 17th August 2020, 18:31   #1517
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by suneel View Post
I am definitely disappointed that Mahindra chose to stoop this low.
I can understand your viewpoint but copying design is one thing and matching performance is totally different. Let's wait for real-life feedback on high-speed stability as well as off-road performance.

In the past generation, it used to be a mediocre vehicle at best and was mostly used as a lifestyle product (bling) with multiple modifications.

Yes, the novelty of your Wrangler will take a hit but I doubt your ownership experience will suffer. There will be a big difference in both, let's wait.

Last edited by Turbanator : 17th August 2020 at 18:35.
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Old 17th August 2020, 18:57   #1518
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by suneel View Post
This level of replication is not sheer coincidence or inevitable evolutionary design as many others in this thread have pointed out.

It seems like most people are ok with buying products that directly rip off the hard work, intellectual property and legacy of other companies, so long as it's cheap and it fits their needs.
If you read through the origins of the Jeep, the current company stellantis does not really have much claim on it - sure they own the brand but the vehicle design is not of their origin to begin with , it is more of a Jeep specification - and using this specification plenty of manufactures across the world produced a type of Jeep with some variations. One of those companies happened to continue making it post war for civilian use and trademarked the name Jeep, that is it.

For our terrain where Indian Jeeps are needed, A Mahindra Jeep is more useful than a Wrangler. I wonder what would normal people make of the few Wranglers that are on the road.
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Old 17th August 2020, 19:14   #1519
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by Vinod_nair View Post
1. 4WD is standard across all variants.
2. Base AX has no HVAC, EBD, Cruise Control (only in the LX).
3. Base AX has 2 Airbags and ABS.
Correction:
1.ABS & EBD are standard across the range.
2.ESP with roll over mitigation is exclusive to the LX.

This Thar avatar is finally something one could live with.Don't get too gougy Mr Mahindra.

There were some concerns here about the new petrol mill,this article expounds on some of its virtues:

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...evealed-415926
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Old 17th August 2020, 19:49   #1520
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
If you read through the origins of the Jeep, the current company stellantis does not really have much claim on it - sure they own the brand but the vehicle design is not of their origin to begin with , it is more of a Jeep specification - and using this specification plenty of manufactures across the world produced a type of Jeep with some variations. One of those companies happened to continue making it post war for civilian use and trademarked the name Jeep, that is it.
Thanks! I did not know this history.
If this is the case, then Jeep definitely has no case to make, and I'd like to add that to my earlier opinion -
It seems the intellectual property isn't there to begin with. Again, quite interesting!

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Originally Posted by N.A.GTC View Post
I'm not an IP lawyer (I mostly deal in criminal & administrative law), but am keenly interested in it regardless. Arguably two IP infringements could be claimed: design and trademark. For design, a registration under the Designs Act is required (and I don't think Jeep would have that). As for the trademark, Jeep can try to claim that they have a shape that is pretty well known and is associated with Jeep, but I don't think they would be able to succeed considering the name 'jeep' itself has become quite diluted (and thus the trademark along with it), and this design shape has been going on in India without being associated with Jeep. So, in my opinion, the suit would fail. But that's just my opinion, and I do not practice in IP laws. As I said in an earlier post, it would be interesting to see if Jeep brings a claim and what they base it on. Apologies to the mods if this was too much offtopic.

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Originally Posted by VRJ View Post
1. What does N do? Could not find answers in google, but there’s one in reddit that says it totally disconnects the drivetrain. It is to be used only when towing. If true, how is this different from having the primary gear lever in N (be it manual or AT)? The Fortuner 4x4 has only H2, H4 and L4. There is no N. How do we tow the Fortuner? I’m assuming leaving the primary gear lever in N will do the trick. Then why isn’t it the case with the Thar?

2. I’ve read that 4H should not be used on paved roads and should be used only on dirt, gravel and snow. Why? Will driving on paved roads somehow hurt the 4x4 setup? What is the maximum speed one can drive on 4H and 4L?


Check out this video for explanation on how 4H and 4L works, and how it can cause damage:

Last edited by N.A.GTC : 17th August 2020 at 19:50.
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Old 17th August 2020, 20:01   #1521
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Yes, the novelty of your Wrangler will take a hit but I doubt your ownership experience will suffer. There will be a big difference in both, let's wait.
I actually wouldn't mind the novelty taking a hit I've been having to park it facing walls these days to deter random people from sitting on the hood and taking pics (it still amazes me that people feel entitled to casually jump on strangers' cars without permission).

It's not about my ownership experience in any way, it's more the principle of it. I think it's immoral to steal intellectual property for profit. And to top it off, Mahindra make detailed videos of how they came up with this novel design. They even copied the easter eggs (windshield decals, manufacture plaque etc.)!
Perhaps it's more shocking to me than the average person because I know every little detail of the Wrangler in and out. So I see so so many little details that are copied that the casual observer might not realize!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
If you read through the origins of the Jeep, the current company stellantis does not really have much claim on it - sure they own the brand but the vehicle design is not of their origin to begin with , it is more of a Jeep specification - and using this specification plenty of manufactures across the world produced a type of Jeep with some variations. One of those companies happened to continue making it post war for civilian use and trademarked the name Jeep, that is it.
There is nothing wrong with making jeep type vehicles that have the exact same functionality around the world. Examples like the Ford Bronco, Suzuki Jimny, Mercedes G Wagon etc. They have all managed to make jeep type vehicles that don't look anything like a Wrangler.
There are also plenty of companies that took inspiration from the Willys CJ to make a jeep type vehicle - Toyota Land Cruiser, Land Rover etc. But they all took that inspiration and infused it with their own design language to make original products. And we as customers have all benefited from this diversity of offerings.

Copying functionality is perfectly fine. Every auto manufacturer does it and that's how the industry moves forward. Copying design does absolutely nothing positive.
Mahindra directly copied the design of modern day Jeep Wranglers (JK and JL models).

Last edited by suneel : 17th August 2020 at 20:04.
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Old 17th August 2020, 20:14   #1522
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorque View Post
Correction:
1.ABS & EBD are standard across the range.
2.ESP with roll over mitigation is exclusive to the LX.

This Thar avatar is finally something one could live with.Don't get too gougy Mr Mahindra.

There were some concerns here about the new petrol mill,this article expounds on some of its virtues:

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...evealed-415926
Thanks for the correction.

The Autocar news doesn't answer the important and pertinent question, who developed this gasoline engine, was it Ford, Ssanyong, or M&M
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Old 17th August 2020, 20:39   #1523
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

Some updates which are definitely worth looking forward to:
- The original intended grill will be available separately as aftermarket
- Price indication 9.5L to 15L ex-showroom
- Can expect the 5-door variant in the coming years
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:17   #1524
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by ka_sieben View Post
Some updates which are definitely worth looking forward to:
- The original intended grill will be available separately as aftermarket
- Price indication 9.5L to 15L ex-showroom
- Can expect the 5-door variant in the coming years
What was the original intended grill? Any pics?
Pricing seems like what was expected all along.
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:20   #1525
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

So finally some major updates to a car, BD Sir would be happy somewhere. But yes, it is a little too inspired but WTH it looks smashing and will achieve the fulfillment of many a wish across our country!

I think it will be a great year for the lifestyle segment if the Gurkha is also launched as per plan (Nov-2020).
It would be awesome to see the Thar and the Gurkha head to head, Jimny suddenly feels just way too tiny for the scheme of things, let me reiterate - the Indian scheme of things, bada hai to behtar hai (bigger is better)!

Though I still feel, Thar should have had one more variant - that is the one with a proper Metal Top, that would be the Overlanders delight with tons of customization possibilities on the roof, with the present set-up (lack of a proper luggage space), I wonder what options are available for the real traveler, and not just for club hopping!

With the refreshed Gurkha already caught by cameras, the game is about to get exciting!

Cheers!

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 18th August 2020 at 15:27. Reason: Added English translation to vernacular phrase.
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:30   #1526
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

After having read all the discussion about the new Thar and it's splitting resemblance to the Jeep Wrangler, suddenly my facelifted Thar seems to stand out at least in appearance. I appreciate Mahindra's attempt at rebooting an automotive icon in the new Thar but they seemed to have too much of Wrangler in their minds while sketching the external bit. Then again, Gandhi Jayanti 2020 awaits those expecting a realistic pricing of the Thar. Anywhere beyond 15 lakhs onroad, the new Thar would seem to lose its zing. What is perhaps even more important is it's ability as a go anywhere vehicle because the Thar CRDe is one of the best offroad vehicles.
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:31   #1527
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by ka_sieben View Post
Some updates which are definitely worth looking forward to:
- Price indication 9.5L to 15L ex-showroom
I doubt the MM can ask for a starting price of 9.5L for the bear bones AX without even HVAC, 7-8L would be my guess.
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:47   #1528
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

So after the initial instant infatuation with the car has gone down a bit over the 2 days, I am gradually starting to see things a bit differently. Has the Thar really changed enough to be eligible for someone's daily drive to the office? I guess this is the biggest USP of the new Thar as per the marketing team. It's 4x4 credentials were never in question.

M&M wants to charge a rumoured price of close to 15-16L for the variant with all bells and whistles. But are they enough?
1. A small screen in form of the ICE when the market is moving to bigger and bigger screens.
2. Carpet on the sides along the middle row and back which looks as if the cobbler under the tree next door was called to finish the job overnight before launching the car.
3. Almost negligible boot space and not much space in the interior cabin either to take that luggage for a weekend trip.
4. Horrible ingress into the middle row with no under thigh support whatsoever.
5. No dampening in the engine bay to keep the engine noise out.
6. Baby size glove box which would probably struggle to even hold the car documents alone.

I ain't commenting on the materials used, design language and rest of the things. But these above few things simply stood out too much to be ignored. A more comprehensive list would only be possible when we see the car in person.

So coming back to my original question. Has the car really changed enough to be a comfortable ride to office for those 5 days every week?

People who want it solely for off-roading would of course love it. But I believed the whole marketing effort and revamp was done with the intention to make the Thar a worthy contender in a whole different segment of buyers who want it for its looks and image but at the same time desire basic comforts expected from a car costing 15L which is in sync with the current market norms. I am not sure if they have really succeeded in it.
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Old 17th August 2020, 22:56   #1529
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

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Originally Posted by Vinod_nair View Post
The Autocar news doesn't answer the important and pertinent question, who developed this gasoline engine, was it Ford, Ssanyong, or M&M
The entire T-GDI mStallion range has been developed completely in-house by Mahindra Research Valley's R&D team. They will be used & shared in all/most of Mahindra & Ford's future offerings.
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Old 17th August 2020, 23:34   #1530
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Default re: The 2020 next-gen Mahindra Thar : Driving report on page 86

For Mahindra, Thar is good as a premium offering with fat margins but I don't see possibility of any other variants especially five door.

Reason is simple, as We know they started assembling and manufacturing Jeeps in India India in 50s, and after 50 years, in year 2000, Bolero released which is their first independent design followed by Scorpio which was complete departure from Jeep design and started their successful journey as mainstream independent vehicle maker.

Now as a business opportunity they would like to milk the Jeep legacy but at the same time Thar should not eclipse the hard work they have put in last 20-25 years to establish themselves as an independent brand.

Last edited by Vishal.R : 17th August 2020 at 23:35.
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