[brownianmotion]

I have some queries regarding 4x4 operations in new 2020 Thar. Forgive my ignorance if some of these are naive. It will be very helpful if you could let me know the answers to following .

1. Did not see any button to engage rear diff lock. Does it use limited slip differential?
2. Does the break differential to front wheel apply in 2H, 4H and 4L mode?
3. In 4L mode, TC gets switched off - can it still apply brake differential?
4. With auto transmission and 4H on, does the gear is kept between 1 and 2 or do I need to put in manual triptonic and choose 1 or 2 to prevent from up shifting
5. Are the skid plates plastic or metal?
6. Suspension travel is good - but what about articulation when MLD is engage?
7. Does the steering vibrate at high speed between 80-100?

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by Raulspace999

Is it worthwhile to buy the non 4WD version or even have a look at at?

Any idea what the base version of the new Thar will be equipped with - Alloys, ABS, EBD, cruise Control, Air Bags from a safety perspective?

Check out these two posts -

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4866051

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4865667

[desertfox]

So much discussed about an off road vehicle, which can get stuck quite normally.

The old Thar did not have a K member bar on its chassis hence the tow points were not secure into the chassis.

On this set up of a Scorpio frame the 4X4 Scorpio that I had did have a proper chassis ball hitch hook in the back.

What this this new Thar have ?

A mere welded tow point is not good enough when rescuing a badly stuck vehicle with a snatch pull, Even if using a Kinetic Energy Rescue Rope (KERR).

This needs verification.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by suneel

I actually wouldn't mind the novelty taking a hit I've been having to park it facing walls these days to deter random people from sitting on the hood and taking pics (it still amazes me that people feel entitled to casually jump on strangers' cars without permission).

It's not about my ownership experience in any way, it's more the principle of it. I think it's immoral to steal intellectual property for profit. And to top it off, Mahindra make detailed videos of how they came up with this novel design. They even copied the easter eggs (windshield decals, manufacture plaque etc.)!
Perhaps it's more shocking to me than the average person because I know every little detail of the Wrangler in and out. So I see so so many little details that are copied that the casual observer might not realize!

This is my pet peeve as well. Blatant copying of each and everything including the easter eggs and then lengthy video's explaining how they came up with the design is so patronising and insulting at the same time. From the first review though, the dynamic packages has only improved marginally and given how bad the original Thar was, I was expecting more of Mahindra's effort to have gone into basic engineering.


Apparently this is coming to my neck of the woods as well. The article also talks about the ongoing dispute with FCA and that may change the design somewhat for export markets. If it comes at the price of a Jimny it will be an interesting prospect and it would be interesting how one of the biggest 4x4 market in the world takes it. Heck a lift kit and updated front/rear lockers would be awesome from ARB.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...t-year-125706/

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by N.A.GTC

I'm not an IP lawyer (I mostly deal in criminal & administrative law), but am keenly interested in it regardless. Arguably two IP infringements could be claimed: design and trademark. For design, a registration under the Designs Act is required (and I don't think Jeep would have that). As for the trademark, Jeep can try to claim that they have a shape that is pretty well known and is associated with Jeep, but I don't think they would be able to succeed considering the name 'jeep' itself has become quite diluted (and thus the trademark along with it), and this design shape has been going on in India without being associated with Jeep. So, in my opinion, the suit would fail. But that's just my opinion, and I do not practice in IP laws. As I said in an earlier post, it would be interesting to see if Jeep brings a claim and what they base it on. Apologies to the mods if this was too much offtopic.

Land Rover had no success with preventing their Defender design from being used to create the Ineos Grenadier, so I doubt Jeep will have much success in this regard.

Jaguar Land Rover last week officially lost its UK court bid to secure the trademark rights for the shape of its old Defender 4x4, allowing Ineos Automotive, an offshoot of a multibillion-pound chemicals firm, to proceed with producing its similarly styled Grenadier.

Now, more details of both firms' testimonies to the court have been revealed by Automotive News Europe. They show that JLR brought in former Ford design chief J Mays to defend its stance. Despite that, the firm lost: the judge in the case upheld findings by the Intellectual Property Office that the shapes JLR sought to protect weren't distinctive enough to trademark.

Link

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The entire T-GDI mStallion range has been developed completely in-house by Mahindra Research Valley's R&D team.

With help from AVL Austria, the same company that helped develop the original mhawk 2.2 and the Tata Safari 2.2 DICOR engines. Personally, I think this will be brilliant engine and since majority of Thar owners will be driving under 20K kms a year, the mstallion is the way to go.

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Did not see any button to engage rear diff lock. Does it use limited slip differential?

It is an automatic MLD. Enages when there is wheel slippage. Disengages when you drive the car in reverse. Same unit is in the existing Thar CRDe as well.

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Does the break differential to front wheel apply in 2H, 4H and 4L mode?

This is some marketing bullshit by Mahindra. Basically it is your ESP. All vehicles with ESP will do this. Mahindra has just used this term to put lipstick on the brochure.

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

In 4L mode, TC gets switched off - can it still apply brake differential?

ESP must be switched off manually with the switch on the right side of the steering wheel and "NO", if the ESP is switched off, no braking on front Brake lock on the differential. That's why I am telling you that this is brochure hog wash.

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

With auto transmission and 4H on, does the gear is kept between 1 and 2 or do I need to put in manual triptonic and choose 1 or 2 to prevent from up shifting

4H doesn't hold hears in 1 or 2. None of the 4 wheel drive vehicles globally do this as you sometimes need all gears in 4H or ateast 1 to 4 gears. So if you want to hold gears you need to go to tiptronic/manual mode.

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

Suspension travel is good - but what about articulation when MLD is engage?

There is no link between MLD and articulation. The articulation will be the same regardless of if MLD is engaged or disengaged.

[sharc_biker]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

This is some marketing bullshit by Mahindra. Basically it is your ESP. All vehicles with ESP will do this. Mahindra has just used this term to put lipstick on the brochure.

ESP must be switched off manually with the switch on the right side of the steering wheel and "NO", if the ESP is switched off, no braking on front Brake lock on the differential. That's why I am telling you that this is brochure hog wash.

4H doesn't hold hears in 1 or 2. None of the 4 wheel drive vehicles globally do this as you sometimes need all gears in 4H or ateast 1 to 4 gears. So if you want to hold gears you need to go to tiptronic/manual mode.

Is the "brake locking differential" like an offroad traction control system like on the Wrangler, Fortuner's A-Trac? Braking the freely spinning wheels/ torque vectoring. Or is it part of the ESP? Asking because the traction control shuts off in 4L in the new Thar.

Also, will the automatic gearbox hold the manually selected gears post the rev limit? Or will it need an aftermarket lock up kit wired to the ECU to completely lock the gear in? In most automatics even in manual/tiptronic mode the gear shifts post a higher limit. How would this play out in steep descents and ascents where upshifts shouldn't happen at all even if the revs hit the limit?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by sharc_biker

Asking because the traction control shuts off in 4L in the new Thar.

Are you sure of this? Where did you get this information ? Because if ESP is switched off, I don't know how the brake locking differential will work. Guess we will know after October. Mahindra should explain it better.

Originally Posted by sharc_biker

Also, will the automatic gearbox hold the manually selected gears post the rev limit?

Generally all automatics have this safety feature to prevent transmission damage. So, I feel Thar will also upshift if rev limit in a gear is crossed.

Originally Posted by sharc_biker

How would this play out in steep descents and ascents where upshifts shouldn't happen at all even if the revs hit the limit?

There is a difference when the the engine revs when the accelerator pedal is pressed and when rpm increases when going downhill with engine braking. It will not upshift when engine braking, but when you press the accelerator and increase RPM, I think it will upshift. Besides if you are coming down an extremely steep slope better to enable the HDC.

[ka_sieben]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

What was the original intended grill? Any pics?
Pricing seems like what was expected all along.

The grill that we can find in the test mules. Looks very similar to the Wrangler's. They might have made a quick decision to change over to the uglier one just before homologation due to the Roxor issue.

[highwaypatrol]

My take on new Thar is as follows.

A. An amazing evergreen boxy design which has great prospect for many mods for those creative minds.

B. As a person who prefer to keep the vehicle in stock condition with an additional BFG or Cooper tyres as an extra, this vehicle is just perfect.

C. Those who can afford unbelievably over priced Wrangler, buy one. Those who can't, get a Thar and be proud of what you own.

D. Nice Gizmos with independent suspension & a factory fitted hard top with proper safety equipments is all I wanted in a Thar. Good job Mahindra.

E. As a person who have driven over a lakh km in M&M vehicle, I can assure you that it won't put a hole on your pocket for maintenance at least for the first 5 years.

F. The new Thar in black (LX hardtop ) in AT diesel may soon join my Punto Abarth and Polo. I may book one by Jan 2021.

G. Many are offended by Wrangler looks. I don't understand why many gets emotional here for a resemblance to a vehicle which many dream of owning one, but it remains a day dream due to its exorbitant pricing. Infact Mahindra has given us a chance to own a proper 4X4 with all bells and whistles like the mighty Wrangler.

H. Only thing I wish to see in this Thar is a proper hand rest. Hope Mahindra sell this as an accessory at least.

Highwaypatrol

[Vinod_nair]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

The entire T-GDI mStallion range has been developed completely in-house by Mahindra Research Valley's R&D team. They will be used & shared in all/most of Mahindra & Ford's future offerings.

Thanks for the information, as GTO always cautions, give MnM and Tata atleast a year to sort out all niggles and issues, before putting down ones money especially on a brand new engine and transmission.

[IntoTheStorm]

Originally Posted by desertfox

This seems to be a Mahindra vendor developed Petrol engine.

I have friends who worked in Mahindra 2.0 gasoline engine project.. it is in-house developed. Mahindra has pretty good know-how in engine development

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by DReddy

Logged in after a long time to just agree with your post sir!!!!

One of the biggest known Jeep lovers on this forum, GTO has given a thumbs up to Mahindra's effort with the new THAR, yet our arm chair enthusiasts seem to have a problem with the grill of all things. How many times have we discussed on this very forum about the patent infringement angle.

Looks to me like not being "phoren" enough and hence not automatically being a premium or desirable product is the main issue here. A Chinese pseudo SUV passing itself off as a "British Icon" gets our hard earned money, but a really sincere effort to emulate the best out there is a ripoff, copy-paste, joke, whatnot. What if Mahindra had totally redesigned the thar to look something like an Ecosport, everyone would have been crying that they destroyed an icon.

The level of "pseudo automotive enthusiasm" on this forum is completely turning me off these days. I would rather read the comments section on some random Youtube videos and have a few laughs than having to go through teambhp posts off-late.

No wonder people Behram sir, who literally dedicated their lives to build an ethusiast's car had no good things to say about the enthusiast crowd. We ask for the impossible and even when a homegrown company manages to achieve 90% of that, we crib and cry about irrelevant stuff and then the actual sales numbers go to the chinese, koreans, americans even who we know are charging a bomb.

GTO hope you are listening.

I feel there is no question whether it is a copy or not. It is not even inspired from Wrangler it is a copy. Having said that I love the looks and I thank Mahindra for not destroying the design by attempting something strange.

What really bothers me (I assume most of us) is firstly the lack of imagination by Mahindra designers. Firstly it is okay to copy the shape as you can’t do much due to the iconic jeep shape, but Copying even the tail light design is just too much. Can’t they design an original looking tail lamp for gods sake ?

I feel the reactions here (team bhp) are sincere and we like Mahindra and we like India. We don’t want people looking at us like they look at Chinese.

The argument of someone else copying and market accepting is not the right way to look at the things.

I still like the new Thar and would love to make it part of my Garage.

[desertfox]

Originally Posted by brownianmotion

I have some queries regarding 4x4 operations in new 2020 Thar. Forgive my ignorance if some of these are naive. It will be very helpful if you could let me know the answers to following .

1. Did not see any button to engage rear diff lock. Does it use limited slip differential?
2. Does the break differential to front wheel apply in 2H, 4H and 4L mode?
3. In 4L mode, TC gets switched off - can it still apply brake differential?
4. With auto transmission and 4H on, does the gear is kept between 1 and 2 or do I need to put in manual triptonic and choose 1 or 2 to prevent from up shifting
5. Are the skid plates plastic or metal?
6. Suspension travel is good - but what about articulation when MLD is engage?
7. Does the steering vibrate at high speed between 80-100?

All this marketing talk on off-road capability doesn't really work.

As Tiny mentioned above Brake distributed Torque and the ability of an LSD are very limited.

For serious off roading what really works is a manual locking rear diff lock and manual locking front diff lock for even more serious off road capability.

Even till this date the best off road vehicle rated by real off road gurus is the Landcruiser 80 series. The MT VXR model LC 80 had manual rear and front diff locks. And I have personally come out of some precarious angles and off tough dune slopes of the Rub Al Khali the " Empty quarters desert' in that.

Even in the Indian terrain with bad mud, slush ruts this set up is the best bet.

And yes for the Gurgaon weekend off roader too who spend hours over now rutted runs behind the Banwari Village area near Off Road Adventure Zone, this set up will come to the rescue over the surface of loose grit, ruts and sand.

Auto transmission 4WD off road set up.

The Auto gear shift would have D 2 and L positions.
If the vehicle is full time 4WD then central diff lock is engaged.
The Thar is not full time 4WD.
In this case the Power mode or Sporting mode is to be set and the D position to be used. 2 and L positions are not recommended for a novice. The system has protection and shifts to a higher gear after 2500 to 2800 rpm.
In a manual set up this Thar does quite well on tough off road climbs in 4th gear Low. It can be kept engaged for extended periods with intermittent shifts to 3 Low as well.
For a beginner I recommend practise off roading driving in 4 High and 2nd / 3rd gear only till one learns the finer aspects of off road driving,

[tilt]

Originally Posted by ohaak

This was a manual transmission setup. This post shows BLD as part of the automatic only.

OK, does this mean that in the manual transmission, there is no way to "lock" the front hubs at all? Does this mean that the front would essentially be like an open diff?

I am sure Mahindra, with their off-road history, would have another way to accomplish a lock in the manual version.

Cheers