[Kosfactor]

My remarks are for academic purposes, I have not physically been inside either Thar 2020 or JL.

Originally Posted by suneel

List of examples of how you can make a "jeep" type vehicle and not having it look EXACTLY like a Wrangler:

1. Land Rover Defender
2. Ford Bronco
3. Suzuki Jimny
4. Mercedes G Wagon
5. Toyota FJ Cruiser
6. Toyota Landcruiser
7. Suzuki Samurai/Gypsy

Gwagon and Bronco are different concepts unrelated to Jeep. Bronco is more related to Mustang than a Jeep. The rest all of them looked like Jeeps for a few generations because they were derived from Jeeps.

Originally Posted by suneel

Perhaps to the casual observer, it may sound feasible to make this argument, that any resemblance of the new Thar to the Wrangler can be claimed as a coincidence. I'm willing to bet most people making this argument have never seen or sat in a Wrangler JK or JL model. And certainly nobody making this claim has spent a significant amount of time familiarizing themselves with the Wrangler.
.

To the casual observer they may look the same. But if you look closer, the front end does not match, the rear end does not match, the sides does not match - because Mahindra follows the original Jeep silhouette of Square front fender and circular rear fender. The interiors too does not match because the dashboard as well as steering (TUV?)is different.

Now what is underneath is not from the old MM540 / Thar CRDe / Wrangler but it looks more like 3rd gen (current) chassis of Scorpio \ TUV.

Jeep JL`s design chief himself has said that they were looking at M38A1 and CJ5 for its design inspiration - which is the same starting point as *drumroll* Mahindra Thar CRDe

Link to article

Originally Posted by Thilak29

While most of Youtube review from mainstream car reviewers are from Mumbai , there are also good number Malayalam reviews based in Kerala - seems like Mahindra took special interest arrange a drive event in Kerala too ?

A Major Offroad market for Mahindra, KA, TN , KA - the hill roads need a Mahindra Jeep and its tractor engine , very usable tool up there. What those things do in 2 wheel drive in itself is impressive.

Originally Posted by johy

Well a copy is a copy. Lets call it a copy. I might have desisted, but to copy the placement of the antenna and Easter eggs like the Thar, camels, cactus in the desert - that literally nails the (copying) head.

Maybe but its worth knowing that Easter eggs are not a Jeep tradition, its been there before but they are supposed to be hidden. Now its fashionable as well as a way to make you pay for the original part rather than an aftermarket part, therefore most car makers has them including our Triber.

The Antenna`s circular bases as well as the placement is perhaps related to the circular port for electricity - the M38A1 spec that came after the flat fenders was 24V. Thar 2020 has it on the opposite side though in comparison to JL, probably to provide an outlet for air intake snorkel on the other side. As i said before the starting point for JL as well as Thar 2020 is same.

[bigron]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Anyways, this discussion has been going on for way too long in this thread. There are two groups here - one who likes the design and others who think this is a blatant copy. Let's just agree to disagree with each other and move on.

Peace.

Actually no. The two groups are one who know the design is a blatant Copy and say it so and the other who know the design is a copy but instead of calling it a copy call it inspirational, evolutionary, traditional etc etc. Let's agree to disagree.

There is nothing wrong in being a copy. And if its well executed then why not. But to pass it off as anything other than a copy makes no sense.

[cool_dube]

Originally Posted by harishpr

While, i'm very clear with the transmission choice (Petrol, AT), still unclear whether to go for soft or hard top ?

As much as I like convertible soft top and it would be my pick of the lot, I'd recommend the hard top if you plan to use the Thar as your daily drive, which implies that it will be left parked unattended frequently. While it will not give you the "wind in your hair" experience, it does look smashing, will be 100% water-proof (I hope ), and above all, will give you peace of mind while leaving the vehicle unattended.

[raj_5004]

There seems to be no end to this!

Anyways, my last comment on this subject -

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

So they just happen to match the interiors and the exteriors to a "T" and even the Easter eggs. Pure co-incidence? What is your definition of blatant for Chinese companies and for Indian companies because clearly it is different.

Sorry, I see no similarities in the interior.

If you mean the round AC vents and a touch screen... Mahindra should have given square AC vents and a round touch screen, but then they would be accused of blatantly copying Mini Cooper.

Coming to easter eggs, it is a relatively new trend in the Automotive market and is done to push customers to opt for genuine parts, in case a replacement is needed. Many brands follow that trend.

And finally, if the new XUV5OO looks exactly like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or the new Scorpio looks like the Compass or Renegade, that would be copying. I have repeated this several times now, but the Thar had this design for decades now and legally and rightfully so. The evolution of this design cannot be termed as "copying".

Anyways, as I mentioned before, we both cannot convince ourselves on this. So, again, let's just agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by bigron

Actually no. The two groups are one who know the design is a blatant Copy and say it so and the other who know the design is a copy but instead of calling it a copy call it inspirational, evolutionary, traditional and do not want to accept its a copy. Let's agree to disagree.

Sure, disagreed.

[harmeet]

Originally Posted by abhinavsureka

I am getting a Thar for sure. They have done a brilliant job. The only confusion is which engine to get. For proper offroading i always find a manual better. But for daily use the petrol A/T seems so attractive.

Also, does anyone know if the hardtop is removable? I was thinking of getting the hardtop and buying the convertible top separately. In the summer I could install the hard top for better heat and dust protection and rest of the year it could be the convertible soft top to turn it into an "open jeep" whenever the weather permits.

Similar situation with me. Always been wanting to buy Thar since my college days and I think this is the version I will go ahead with. Now my heart says go with soft-top which I can open at will but the mind says stick with hard-top. I am preety clear that I will be going for a Manual option - for me the AT doesnt go with the Thar badging. If it's Thar, it has to be manual.

[suneel]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Sorry, I see no similarities in the interior.

If you mean the round AC vents and a touch screen... Mahindra should have given square AC vents and a round touch screen, but then they would be accused of blatantly copying Mini Cooper.

: I actually thought you posted these interior pics to demonstrate how much of a copy job took place. I didn't realize until scrolling down that you were trying to make the opposite point.

[cool_dube]

Request one of the "ethical" folks in here to create a separate thread for discussing the "copy/paste" issue, while genuine enthusiasts can continue to discuss the Thar's capabilities etc. on this thread

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by suneel

: I actually thought you posted these interior pics to demonstrate how much of a copy job took place. I didn't realize until scrolling down that you were trying to make the opposite point.

Exactly, I thought the same until I read through the end.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

Sorry, I see no similarities in the interior.

I see what you are doing here. I am pretty sure you are not going to put the exterior pictures side by side. Some parts of the dashboard dont watch, voila!

I am also still wondering what your definition of blatant is when it comes to chinese and Indian companies?

Originally Posted by raj_5004

And finally, if the new XUV5OO looks exactly like the Jeep Grand Cherokee or the new Scorpio looks like the Compass or Renegade, that would be copying. I have repeated this several times now, but the Thar had this design for decades now and legally and rightfully so. The evolution of this design cannot be termed as "copying".

I am reading it as, as long as they sneak in a model or two and not their whole passenger car range they are fine and the copying is fine. And no Thar did not have this design for decades.

Again would you be as enthused about Thar if it looked exactly like the last one with the mechanicals from the current one?

[tomraven99]

Enough said. This is much more than inspiration. Although I am not complaining. We needed this version of the Thar much earlier.

[adamkathy23]

Originally Posted by Dry Ice

That's one of their design principles.

Attachment 2043716

They touched upon it briefly during the unveil event (go to 22m 55s)

Originally Posted by Hawkeye269

According to the German transcendental idealism philosopher Immanuel Kant (Critique of Judgment, 1790), in order to judge something to be "beautiful", sensation must give rise to pleasure by engaging our capacities of reflective contemplation. Well, I have "reflectively contemplated" at great length on this issue and have concluded that we must agree to disagree on the point of what type of fenders would best suit Thar 2.0. Frankly, I think it's sacrilegious to even consider a Thar with similarly designed rounded wheel arches front and back... having said that, Kant would've been understanding about our difference of opinion on this point, for he also wrote that "everyone has his own (sense of) taste".

I now see how you got your screen name. It is quite a thorough description and i completely agree with it! Just that i am a sucker for proportions and some how in all the other pictures, the front & rear fenders just blend in beautifully, where as in the latest one, difference designs just jump out, looks odd. May be it is because the rest of the car is so beautiful.

That being said, It looks complete, it looks 21st century and dare i say, looks international!

[TorqueyTechie]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Amusing to see people defending the indefensible. Please accept it is an outright copy and let us move on. To sound sophisticated one can call it inspiration if the word "copy" touches some nerves. But as a respectable public forum, when we take no time in criticising the Chinese for copying car designs, then we should also accept the obvious here.

Why does someone have to accept its an copy. Just like you they too have their opinion. Instead its better not to rake or reply to either side and stop this pointless debate .

[gthang]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Jeep JL`s design chief himself has said that they were looking at M38A1 and CJ5 for its design inspiration - which is the same starting point as *drumroll* Mahindra Thar CRDe

Interesting to see Mahindra appropriate a heritage that does not exist. Timeline of the Thar's evolution from the cj3 looks great except from where it jumped to the 540.
The 540 was bought from a licensed Korean copy (Daewoo, I think). No relation to Jeep.

It takes a lot of nerve, lack of scruples, and most importantly, gullible fanboys eager to regurgitate the marketing (deception) department's hogwash for the Thar to succeed. And judging by the responses, it will be a hit.

I know that off-road vehicles have to be tough, but the thickness of the skin of the company's design department must be at some other level to proudly present their plagiarism. With a dedicated video, no less.


Cheers

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by abhinavsureka

Also, does anyone know if the hardtop is removable? I was thinking of getting the hardtop and buying the convertible top separately. In the summer I could install the hard top for better heat and dust protection and rest of the year it could be the convertible soft top to turn it into an "open jeep" whenever the weather permits.

I am exploring it the other way. I think buying a convertible soft top and having a removable Hard Top would be a easier mod. I am sure Hyderabad Hard top guys etc will come up with some options for this model.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by gthang

Timeline of the Thar's evolution from the cj3 looks great except from where it jumped to the 540.
The 540 was bought from a licensed Korean copy (Daewoo, I think). No relation to Jeep.

Source?

AFAIK - MM540 was built on CJ500D chassis with Peugeot XD4.9P engine.

Mahindra had also clarified during the Roxor lawsuits that they had agreements with all the owners of Jeep from Willys till FCA in 2009.

What part of the story is Korean? And what is the Korean car which it shares license from?