[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by Ksingh544

But boss its humble request please don’t speculate on the cause of his death on a public platform. The man was a legend and died of natural causes, let’s not play detective years after he’s passed. It’s irresponsible to say the least.

Why? Irresponsible in what way? Who said he did NOT die of natural causes?
How do you distinguish what is a "natural" cause? Don't feel you have to answer.
These are really rhetorical questions of mine. I knew him well enough to form my own opinion.

[Ksingh544]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Why? Irresponsible in what way? Who said he did NOT die of natural causes?
How do you distinguish what is a "natural" cause? Don't feel you have to answer.
These are really rhetorical questions of mine. I knew him well enough to form my own opinion.

If these are rhetorical questions my humble suggestion will be please play them out in your mind, or in a private diary. On a public form you're making an accusation against a big corporate entity.
Its asking to be dragged into a legal mess. You can take my word for it or spend some top dollar and a lawyer will tell you the same . Thats all i meant.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by jailbird_fynix

SRK designs

Does anyone else find an uncanny resemblance of the rear tub (door backwards) to that of the previous generation LR Defender Soft top (barring the tail lights obviously)

Originally Posted by Ksingh544

But boss its humble request please don’t speculate on the cause of his death on a public platform. The man was a legend and died of natural causes, let’s not play detective years after he’s passed. It’s irresponsible to say the least.

So true

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

In my opinion Behram Dhabhar's conflicts and battles with his own Mahindra mangement probably was so severe as to damage his health and contribute to his early demise.

While everyone's opinion does have multiple reasons to arrive at such a conclusion. However, this is pure speculation.

I was myself very close to him, personally. Was also connected to him almost real time on multiple things. Had spoken to him 2 days before his demise. His later years at the competing company wasn't fulfilling either, infact was worse. He was onboarded by them for something and then he got moved into something completely disconnected from offroad based vehicles. So it's better to let him rest in peace!

[DirtyDan]

Does anybody have firm knowledge of what engine is going to be the top end (in case there is more than one) motor in this new Thar? I have read the rumors about a 140bhp mill. Are they MORE than rumors at this point?

140bhp seems refreshingly jaunty for an Indian vehicle such like Thar. I hope the 140 is true, or even upwards of there.

By the way, I own a 2013 Thar and a December 2018 Thar. My 2018 is a marked improvement mechanically, engine software-wise, too. Hopefully the Thar team has got things turned around.

...and, for your reading pleasure...

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post1283150 (My experience with Automobile Sterling)

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

140bhp seems refreshingly jaunty for an Indian vehicle such like Thar. I hope the 140 is true, or even upwards of there.

2020 Thar is a different animal from the current on, which is like a ******* child of the MM540/Bolero/Scorpio etc, etc.. No one knows which part came from which parent.


The 2020 Thar is pretty much a shorted Scorpio Chasis and power train with a completely new body. All new products from Mahindra is with significant inputs from their North American Technical center, so expect this to be way better than the current Thar. Also it is most likely to come with 140 bhp tune to compete with the new Gurkha which is 140 bhp and the new chasis dynamic will surely handle this output comfortably.



Personally, I may end up getting the Gurkha extreme cause this and the wrangler are the two last solid axle with coil spring civilian SUV's available and I cannot afford the wrangle.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

Behram Dhabhar, the senior engineer who created the Thar, was a member of this site........

Thank you Dirty Dan for giving me that rundown on Behram Dhabhar. Unfortunately I never had the opportunity of meeting/interacting with him. Whatever I know about him is through the written word and the experiences of others. As a result I have developed a high regard and respect for the gentleman.

I have read through the links you have given and I will say that I empathize with Mr. Dhabhar’s views regarding the “ivory tower” and “shop floor” mindsets in an organization. I will just add (from my own experience) that this dysfunction is prevalent not just in our country, but in much of the industrial world. A pecking order issue I feel, prevalent in other species too.

But I think I may have – inadvertently – stirred up a controversy among members here. And for that I apologize.

Behram Dhabharji, may your soul rest in peace.

[AdityaDeane]

Next Gen Thar with hardtop spied testing again

Link

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Also it is most likely to come with 140 bhp tune to compete with the new Gurkha which is 140 bhp and the new chasis dynamic will surely handle this output comfortably.

Personally, I may end up getting the Gurkha extreme cause this and the wrangler are the two last solid axle with coil spring civilian SUV's available and I cannot afford the wrangle.

If I could get the Gurkha serviced I would buy it. I love the Ergonomics of it, the high seat, easy vision out the front bonnet, easy acquire of the left side of the vehicle. And, of course, the lockers. I asked the local Force Traveller sales guy if he would service the Gurkha. He gave me a wide-eyed firm "NO" like I had asked for his son to marry my leper daughter. (No, I don't have one of those.)

My usage is "bad-roading" as opposed to "off-roading". I need dependability, reliability, more than anything else. I need spares and expert service...Gurkha? In the deep Himalayas, you better not break down.

I haven't seen any good reviews here EVER on that score for some years now. I will muddle thru with my two Thars for now and see what develops. If Force would just show me a new attitude, a new willingness to produce a dependable product backed up by service, I would take a flyer at it. After all, I've got a strong dependable Thar to drive while my Gurkha is in the shop.... Hmmm...maybe I ought to buy a Maruti Alto for extra back up.

Mr. Shashanka, my experience in IT confirms what you say. Dysfunction, across international borders, is quite common and not just an Indian disease.

[condor]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If I could get the Gurkha serviced I would buy it. I love the Ergonomics of it, the high seat, easy vision out the front bonnet, easy acquire of the left side of the vehicle. And, of course, the lockers.

With your knowledge of the machines, wouldnt you be able to service it yourself ? If you can, then it would make sense to get vehicle that has things going for you ..

[1100D]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

\ I hope the 140 is true, or even upwards of there.

Actually the motor should be making much more Torque than it does in the present one. In many of the premium SUV's today, sheer Torque from the engine (400Nm+) actually closes the gap of additional weight as well as not having proper low-range. Mahindra shouldn't resort to misleading people with the "bhp" marketing.

Originally Posted by condor

With your knowledge of the machines, wouldnt you be able to service it yourself ? If you can, then it would make sense to get vehicle that has things going for you ..

Minor services apart, with the Gurkha extreme's 2.2 OM611 engine and related powertrain, spare parts availability/support is definitely going to be a challenge for him (as it is presently with Force Traveller owners with that same engine)

[navpreet318]

Going majorly OT, for your kind of usage and requirements like reliability, dependability and rugged machine and the fact that you can splurge upto a gurkha's amount of money, why don't you go in for a fortuner. I'm sure with the Delhi ban, you'll get a number of previous gen Fortuners for the same amount of money. And its reliable to the core. I'm sure good FNG can service it well. Shop manual can be easily sourced and parts will never be a problem. Toyota reliability. Why keep running after mahindra and force for the kind of expectations you have?

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If I could get the Gurkha serviced I would buy it. I love the Ergonomics of it, the high seat, easy vision out the front bonnet, easy acquire of the left side of the vehicle. And, of course, the lockers. I asked the local Force Traveller sales guy if he would service the Gurkha. He gave me a wide-eyed firm "NO" like I had asked for his son to marry my leper daughter. (No, I don't have one of those.)

My usage is "bad-roading" as opposed to "off-roading". I need dependability, reliability, more than anything else. I need spares and expert service...Gurkha? In the deep Himalayas, you better not break down.

I haven't seen any good reviews here EVER on that score for some years now. I will muddle thru with my two Thars for now and see what develops. If Force would just show me a new attitude, a new willingness to produce a dependable product backed up by service, I would take a flyer at it. After all, I've got a strong dependable Thar to drive while my Gurkha is in the shop.... Hmmm...maybe I ought to buy a Maruti Alto for extra back up.

Mr. Shashanka, my experience in IT confirms what you say. Dysfunction, across international borders, is quite common and not just an Indian disease.

[Kosfactor]

I was going through a not so well off area of town due to a traffic jam the other day and found a rare vehicle abandoned on the side of the road, it was a forceone SUV, I am not sure Force motors have the luxury of maintaining a product line for long that does not sell, with BS6 coming along its a dark future for Force motors and i advice caution.

Thar CRDe can be converted to Solid axles , mahindra even services offroad modified vehicles , some that has scorpio engines too.

[DirtyDan]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Why keep running after mahindra and force for the kind of expectations you have?

1.) Because a Fortuner is way too big for very narrow mountain and market
roads here....but thanks for the tip on the Delhi Fortuners...hurts to have to pass on those. There is also no reputable service (IMHO) for Toyotas close to me.

2.) Because Maruti and one or two others can produce low cost dependable vehicles, I guess I expect Mahindra, Tata and Force to be able to do so, too.
Am I asking too much?

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

.....
Am I asking too much?

I think the best way you can get an answer to that is all the numerous posts you have posted in all these years and here you are still asking for the same. Infact I'll add myself to the same position as you.

Only difference being that I'm in it for the love I have for a jeep. But everytime I'm close to buying one, I shy away thinking about the usability and whether I will start to hate it once I own it and suffer from all the nuisances that all of the people here and a number of my friends have gone through.

Even today I was on the Thar 700 page and here I'm posting on this new thar page. Only asking the same question. Am I asking for too much?

After all these years looking at the incompetence of manufacturers to churn out a dependable and affordable vehicle - Maybe I am!!!
Maybe you're too!!

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

If I could get the Gurkha serviced I would buy it.

The body panels are from the Gama/Cruiser/Toofan range available with your dealer. Rear axles also shared with the same range of vehicles.

The FM2.2 CR engine has already been launched in the Force Traveler.
The only items that will look like greek to your dealer is the transfer case, diff locks & front axles. The transfer case is the same Borg Warner (Digvi Warner) inline chain drive unit from the Thar CRDe (not the divorced transfer case from the earlier models). The T-Case, Lockers, front axles etc are reasonably simple mechanical parts and you can guide them in the remote chance of anything going wrong with these. My nearest Force Dealer is down in the plains which is about a two hour drive.

Given that you are technically sound, I would't worry too much. Except for the 4WD system, and coil springs, the rest of the vehicle has been mostly developed from the existing parts bin.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

My usage is "bad-roading" as opposed to "off-roading".

Same with me. The Gurkha is a fairly basic piece of machinery. Don't worry too much from a reliability angle. There are 100s of travellers running and it seems to be very popular with the premium tourist van segment. I don't see any reason why a Gurkha will be any less reliable than a Thar CRDe.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

I haven't seen any good reviews here EVER on that score for some years now.

Well the Gurkha Extreme with the 140 bhp Merc OM611 and the solid axles etc was launched only few months ago. Given it's 16 Lakhs on the road price tag and interiors made by a retarded person, I don't think too many people will buy it. Now that I have an Scorpio SZ Plus engine humming under the hood of my Thar DI, I decided to wait until they launch the refreshed interiors due late this year or early next year. But I definitely will pick up the BS IV version because I am frankly afraid of all the additional electronics/sensors that will get incorporated into the diesel engines post BSVI in April 2020.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Actually the motor should be making much more Torque than it does in the present one.

Both engines in the Gurkha has been designed for good low end torque. 85bhp/240 NM version makes peak torque from 1400 rpm. The 140bhp/321 NM makes peak torque at 1600 rpm. The Thar CRDe doesn't wake up until past 1750 to 1800 rpm.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Minor services apart, with the Gurkha extreme's 2.2 OM611 engine and related powertrain, spare parts availability/support is definitely going to be a challenge for him (as it is presently with Force Traveller owners with that same engine)

Exactly. That's why I am not too worried despite the fact that my nearest dealer is two hours away. They do come up periodically to the hills for the service and inform the owners. I personally know about 10 of the 85 bhp (CRDe and the Non-CRDe) versions running fine here.

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

1.) Because a Fortuner is way too big for very narrow mountain and market

Same problem with me. I had narrowed down on the V-Cross. The width is okay and you get used to it, but the length of close to 6 meters and the 6 meter turning radius is a problem for me.