[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

Did some "Homework" -

All "?" are not explicitly mentioned in the unveil, but am assuming will be there.

Speculations Galore!

EDIT: By the way, I spoke to the showroom in Coimbatore. The cars are not here yet, expected around the time of launch. Unofficial bookings are being taken at 50k, but no clarity on refund rules. "38 bookings have been made" - pinch of salt takes it down to 10 - still good response!

After the official site was updated to include the Feature/ Spec matrix, I am updating my "Homework" too.

Note that while the "Want to Own" link, which gives a glimpse of the variants/ fuel type mix, includes a bare-bone AX variant (without A/C), the feature matrix does not.



Now that the feature/ variant is more or less clear, here is my speculation on the price - and what you get for the money you pay vs. the base variant. The ones in bold are the additions from the previous variant, and the only in yellow/ red are features not available in the higher variants.

I am assuming a 25k premium for the new 2.0 Petrol TGDI engine vs. the 2.2 Diesel - newer engine vs. old workhorse whose investments would have been recovered by now.



Base AX could be priced almost on par with the existing Thar, while the AX AC's Feature addition vs. price differential may be not necessarily justified, but this will be the actual base variant for the target audience. Similarly, I am guessing the top-end autos to have a higher premium too (vs. the premium between XUV5OO manual vs. auto, for example).

Let's see if the actual pricing comes as a surprise, and hopefully in a good way. As before, this is my understanding from what is available from the launch video and the Thar official website. "Features and specifications may change without prior notice".

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by shibujp

However to me, the old world charm of the previous Thar still remains and the new one still does not improve sufficiently to change my attitude towards buying one. It is still a 2+2 with the passenger seats good for kid and averagely built adults. And you would definitely need a roof rack for the luggage.

The rear seat definitely seems much better than what I expected. Few ergonomic issues like the restricted width of the floor due to the intrusion of the rear wheel arches but rear legroom, height and space are quite good.



Another aspect is the luggage space. This is also better that I expected. However you would certainly need a roof rack for weekend luggage for a family of 4. Didn't see any mounting points for these if required.



Looking at this from a point of view of the SUV offerings in this price bracket (15-20L) does not make sense as they beat it hands down in terms of utility. However if you look at it as a lifestyle product like the Wrangler, it suddenly makes sense. It's like a Royal Enfield Himalyan to the Triumph's Tiger perhaps. And though I initially though otherwise it is quite a bit ahead of the model it replaces. However it is the little things that make all the difference and a detail ownership or review is what is going to bring these out.

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

The level of pseudoness here surprised me. One one hand we are ready to accept any ripoff Chinese product heartily (case in point the OnePlus) however hold a different yardstick for indian companies? Does Jeep Inc hold a patent for the wrangler design? Even landrover couldn't protect the defender shape how can jeep?

I beg to differ. I believe it is right to hold the Tata's, Mahindra's and RE to lofty standards as they have been in the manufacturing business for ages compared to the Chinese manufacturers. This is more than enough time for them to mature their product development and associated processes especially since they have been observers to Toyota and VW etc. They also has JVs with the best in the industry and should have used these to their advantage.

Compared to their predecessors the current Thar and the RE are quantum leaps in quality but we need to accept that if we were to compare it to quality across the segment, it would be quite wanting. Even the ergonomic compromises are things that you would not accept in other cars. This is where the positioning as a lifestyle product makes sense. Since there is no comparable product at this price point and the alternatives are several multiples costlier. This is why RE was successful and why I believe the Thar will be successful too.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

1) Saw a brief intro about the Convertible Soft Top in one of the videos, but can't find it for now. Has Metallic Struts inside, and it folds towards the back of the roll cage in typical Convertible Car fashion. Will upload the link when I find it again.

You can see it towards the end of the Autocar India video

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by shibujp

I beg to differ. I believe it is right to hold the Tata's, Mahindra's and RE to lofty standards as they have been in the manufacturing business for ages compared to the Chinese manufacturers. This is more than enough time for them to mature their product development and associated processes especially since they have been observers to Toyota and VW etc. They also has JVs with the best in the industry and should have used these to their advantage.

I am not sure why Tata and RE need to be clubbed in. What designs did Tata and RE copied as blatantly as this?

I dont really mind that they have copied the design per se, its their choice. What does get my goat though is the patronizing lengthy video talking about design when it has clearly taken more than an inspiration from one car and one car only. The outside is nearly identical including the placement and design of the antenna, the hard top roof is also identical, on the inside, it takes the roof top speaker design and inspiration for the infotainment too. Okay so you cant do much with the basic design, but antenna and hard top roof? No matter how anyone tries to spin it, it is a copy indeed.

Also read the first drive review by the Mod which i missed the first time around and somewhat disappointed that the ride and handling package is almost the same as the outgoing Thar. I was expecting it to be improved considerably. Some of it is a limitation due to the design - short wheelbase, ladder frame chassis, height and center of gravity but I was expecting more improvements to the fundamental engineering of the vehicle. Reading the first drive review, it still isnt a car suited to doing even modest speeds on the highway. I was excited at first but its weaning off. I hope Mahindra springs a surprise when they announce the pricing in October.

[ph03n!x]

I was going through the first 10 post banter - interesting to see these views in today's context, after 3.5 years

Going by recent M&M launches (XUV3OO or Marazzo), I don't have a reservation in picking one of these baby Wranglers from the initial lots

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Would be extremely interested in picking one up, if the top end version can offer the below -

1. ABS and airbags
2. Factory hard top.
3. A/c
4. Proper second row seats.

With the inclusion of a petrol, I think they might be eyeing the small market enjoyed by the Suzuki Jimny

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Lot of rumors flying and birdie talks on this for a while now, some say it will be Wrangler replica and priced at 15-18 lakhs with coil spring suspension et all.

Originally Posted by GTO

Impossible, just impossible. FCA will sue the hell out of Mahindra as Jeep is now officially in India. Plus, Mahindra's reputation will take a body blow, as will their share price with such a lawsuit. You can't just copy someone else's design here - we aren't China. It's one thing to build a design that you once had a licence for & have been selling for decades; it's another to come out with a new product that is a replica of another.

There is no way Mahindra will come out with a Wrangler replica.

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Wrangler replica as in configuration or specs built using typical M&M tech innovation, looks wise it would be different and named different also. How will FCA have any control on that?

[pranavtengshe]

Does mahindra have licence to all jeep designs including wrangler?
Why has mahindra not changed tail light, latches, interior design?
Along with the exterior shell is the part design (e.g. suspension) inspired by jeep wrangler as well?
I am totally proud that home grown companies now have the manufacturing muscle, but in case of Thar they should have put more differentiation.
We all know mahindra is capable of doing better.
End of the day, its made in India, made for India wrangler.
If I am in market for a 4×4 I will buy the Thar.

[RavenAvi]

Some other notable shots shared by Twitterati:

Colour options in real life.






2-way opening tailgate.


Embossed.


All 3 modes displayed on HU.




A shot of the fully-lit Speedo.


Close shot of the RPM meter showing all the icons inside.

[RedPhobos]

I don’t understand why Mahindra and Mahindra finds it so hard to come up with a design that they can call their own. I mean don’t they own the iconic Pininfarina design agency? I could ignore the fact that the earlier Thar was a Jeep TJ look alike because back then Mahindra probably did not have a lot of vehicle design experience, but what about post XUV500 and the purchase of Pininfarina? What excuse do they have now? They took so many years to come up with yet another copy? Everyone must have noticed how Mahindra keeps reusing obsolete Jeep designs after 2-4 years of them being discontinued. Even after Jeep successfully suing them in the US, Mahindra has shamelessly stuck to its practice of blatantly copying vehicle design. In my opinion M&M has done too little in the current vehicle to justify an increase of 50-60% in purchase price. 5-6 lakhs is a lot of money, it can buy you a proper hatchback, which might even have more features that the 2020 Thar. I feel Mahindra has missed out on an incredible opportunity to do something spectacular with this hugely anticipated launch. They have done too little and are charging way too much money. In short they are getting greedy. I don’t think the Thar with its shortfall in practicality, build quality, ergonomics and the huge bump in price will sell as much as Mahindra would like it to. Time will tell.

[stormdRider]

This indeed is an excellent upgrade of the Thar, it is a well built vehicle which would fulfill the purpose for which it is intended. But, I wouldn't dub it as a complete family car or the sole car you would have in your garage. This can be your sole family car only if your family consists of two adult members. It would be an awkward scenario when you would have to ask someone from your family to climb to the back seat of the Thar on a regular basis (unless they are children). In fact, I think this is almost similar to owning a two wheeler like the Royal Enfield Himalayan. Both these vehicles would serve Adventure Touring to extreme levels, the exact purpose for which they are built .

As far as owning a single car or a complete family car which would double both as a daily commuter and also serve for long distance touring, I would wait for the upcoming Scorpio or XUV500. Given the amount of detailing and attention Mahindra has given for the Thar 2020, I expect the Scorpio and XUV500 also to be excellent products which would be well worth the wait. These are my personal thoughts, as I have been drooling over the prospect of buying the new gen Thar for the last 24 hours .

[vb-saan]

This indeed is the first Mahindra which I would think of buying if I am based in India. Forget about the finesse and luxury, not everyday we get to see cars with this kind of character and presence launched in the mass-market space; the last one probably was the Jeep Compass.

And though the grille looks very plasticy in the red shade, it actually blends pretty well in the Grey, Rocky Beige, and Black shades. The Black and Beige especially looks awesome!

[Malhi]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not sure why Tata and RE need to be clubbed in. What designs did Tata and RE copied as blatantly as this?

I dont really mind that they have copied the design per se, its their choice. What does get my goat though is the patronizing lengthy video talking about design when it has clearly taken more than an inspiration from one car and one car only. The outside is nearly identical including the placement and design of the antenna, the hard top roof is also identical, on the inside, it takes the roof top speaker design and inspiration for the infotainment too. Okay so you cant do much with the basic design, but antenna and hard top roof? No matter how anyone tries to spin it, it is a copy indeed.

No one seems be bothered about such blatant plagiarism of a world icon - the jeep wrangler.

Had a company in any of the western countries tried launching such a product they would have been bashed left, right and centre by car enthusiasts and experts.

Has our judicial system become so flimsy that Mahindra has the audacity to unashamedly cut-copy and paste , or, have we collectively become so thick skinned to turn a blind eye towards something which is not short of a daylight robbery? I fail to understand.

Ps- I cannot even dream of buying the 70 Lac wrangler but my conscience never allow me pay for a plagiarized product even if it falls within by budget.

[arvindtayal]

Does new thar design even allows overhead carrier? Which will be must if you are going on a trip, as there is negligible boot space.

[Gladiator_1]

New Thar 2020 with present Gen THAR (Modified)
Credit: ICN Studio

[arvindtayal]

Lot of people in the forum are talking about ethics, copy paste, etc.
If we go by that logic, then only the first firm that made a 4 wheeler, should be allowed to make a 4 wheeler.
Only one company making cell phone.
No place for generic drugs for masses.
List can go on.

[tomraven99]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Jeep and Thar! Coincidence?

Attachment 2043373


Link

Though the new Thar looks like a pixel by pixel copy it still cant match the Wrangler design.Especially from the rear angles the Thar looks bloated while the Wrangler oozes appeal. Still kudos to Mahindra for making those much needed changes to the Thar.
Older gen owners like me can have some consolation in the hope that handling has not improved by a huge margin and that the suspension is..... Just kidding.I need the new one so bad.