[jraj]

Originally Posted by kiku007

The above fact is the white elephant in the room that we don’t want to address

With due respects , can you please point out one country where every aspect is linked to your biometrics ?

Yes ,for the visa interview tenprinting is done.
The unique id of a citizen,resident immigrant , non resident immigrant is the Social security number here.

When I go apply for a social security number , no bio metrics are taken not even ten printing.When I go apply for a bank account the bio metrics are not linked to my account . When I go get my drivers license, no bio metrics are taken. When I purchased my car,house etc here, no bio metrics are taken - everything is tied to my social security number which doesn't carry any of my bio metric data.

In fact when there was a proposal made by the previous Obama administration to have a bio metric based National identifying system , it was shot down due to the opposition such proposal faced.Such proposals by earlier administrations were shot down too.

Having a national unique id is one thing and tying every aspect of your life to a biometric data is another. Imagine this , someone who can steal your biometric data can swindle all your life time savings using that through digital transaction,no?Before even you could prove it is a fraudulent transaction , your life time will be done.

Unique national identity number is a good proposal and no second thoughts about . Tying everything with your biometric isn't that great a scheme without putting forward a fail safe mechanism - especially when you are forcing every citizen of India into it.

Please do not compare ten printing while applying for a visa to forcefully having to give your biometrics. In former case you have the option not to do it and never apply for a visa ,while in the latter you don't have any choice as the country is forcing it on you.

[kiku007]

It's not about the linking I raised a question. Read the question properly and then answer.

It's funny. The very reason that the foreign countries collect these is for security. But there's no fear of them misusing it against the individual. But when one gives it to Indian Government, there's fear of mis use.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by kiku007

It's not about the linking I raised a question. Read the question properly and then answer.



It's funny. The very reason that the foreign countries collect these is for security. But there's no fear of them misusing it against the individual. But when one gives it to Indian Government, there's fear of mis use.

The government is linking aadhar to everything now , isn't it ? To the bank, to the IT, to the drivers license , to the direct benifit and so on.

What is so funny is, you still not understanding the difference between OPTING to get a visa by ten printing versus having to give the bio metric data without any choice ?

And even if you OPT to give the finger prints, they are not being tied to your daily way of life anyways which our Government is trying to do by making aadhar linked with everything .

It is very funny indeed

[tj123]

I am all for adhaar for establishing identity, disbursing subsidy etc. However linking it to every aspect of life can be quite intrusive.

I am quite apprehensive if bio metric details are compromised (Picking up fingerprints from high resolution photos https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/13/...-fingerprints/) and someone can really ruin a persons life and all his savings and other details are in question as everything is linked.

The biggest irony is that one cannot change his bio metrics if it is compromised unlike a credit card number which can be reissued.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by jraj

The government is linking aadhar to everything now , isn't it ? To the bank, to the IT, to the drivers license , to the direct benifit and so on.

What is so funny is, you still not understanding the difference between OPTING to get a visa by ten printing versus having to give the bio metric data without any choice ?

And even if you OPT to give the finger prints, they are not being tied to your daily way of life anyways which our Government is trying to do by making aadhar linked with everything .

It is very funny indeed

For the LAST time, do you know someone who opted not to apply for a visa because he/she didn't want to part with their data?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by kiku007

It's funny. The very reason that the foreign countries collect these is for security. But there's no fear of them misusing it against the individual. But when one gives it to Indian Government, there's fear of mis use.

Please... name the governments you trust so much. Certainly not my mother country, UK (under either major-party govt); certainly not America. Both countries are manic about intrusion into privacy.

Certainly, criticise your own govt; that seems to me to be a democratic right (followed up by voting) whilst freedom of speech still exists. But do not assume that others are either angelic or efficient in these matters.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Please... name the governments you trust so much. Certainly not my mother country, UK (under either major-party govt); certainly not America. Both countries are manic about intrusion into privacy.

EXACTLY

So why the hypocrisy? No country is more saint than India wrt Privacy. Some people believe otherwise.

[Thad E Ginathom]

But we don't have national identity cards.

We do have National Insurance numbers, which are used for employment/taxation/welfare, but nothing else. If anyone asked for our National Insurance number when we bought a car, we'd laugh.

There is no hypocrisy here: yet again, let me remind that British government wanted a national identity card. The Brits said a big NO to it.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by kiku007

For the LAST time, do you know someone who opted not to apply for a visa because he/she didn't want to part with their data?

For the last time , do you know of any country that links the bio metrics of its people to their everyday activity?

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

There is no hypocrisy here: yet again, let me remind that British government wanted a national identity card. The Brits said a big NO to it.

When I said hypocrisy, its not UK vs Indian citizens. Its about an Indian submitting biometrics to a foreign Government Vs Indian Government.

That's the only point I'm touching on. With regard to the program in itself, I have my doubts on the undue priority the present Government is giving to it, when larger issues are un-addressed.

Originally Posted by jraj

For the last time , do you know of any country that links the bio metrics of its people to their everyday activity?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countr...ing_biometrics

Take time to read. But I don't think getting a driving license is a everyday activity

[ksameer1234]

Originally Posted by jraj

For the last time , do you know of any country that links the bio metrics of its people to their everyday activity?

You might want to check the list of countries using National Identity Cards. Many of these cards contain biometric information and many such as those of Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Italy (?) use the identity card for e-governance and offering services to citizen. Hope this helps.

[binand]

Originally Posted by kiku007

For the LAST time, do you know someone who opted not to apply for a visa because he/she didn't want to part with their data?

In 2006, when I was living in a crown dependency of UK, a law was passed that among other things, made fingerprints mandatory for applying for a visa. So when in 2007 my work permit expired I requested a transfer back to India rather than allow my biometrics in the database of a foreign country (though I was short of only 1 year for PR; many people told me I am being an idiot).

As of today my biometrics is not on any government database. The only place where my fingerprint is stored is the attendance system at my office (only one finger, though). But this linking of Aadhaar with IT returns & mobile has convinced me resistance is now futile - now my livelihood is the hostage.

As for Aadhaar:

- It is a privacy nightmare. Data is not safe, UIDAI takes no responsibility, they are not accountable.
- It is a surveillance system masquerading as an authentication system.

(Maybe all these points have been made in this thread already; if yes then apologies for flogging a dead horse).

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by binand

In 2006, when I was living in a crown dependency of UK, a law was passed that among other things, made fingerprints mandatory for applying for a visa. So when in 2007 my work permit expired I requested a transfer back to India rather than allow my biometrics in the database of a foreign country (though I was short of only 1 year for PR; many people told me I am being an idiot).

I respect your decision and doubts, but being an immigrant to this country, it is not something I am going to leave India over. In fact they have got me already. And now it seems it is going to be required to even get chai at a chai stall, I'm glad my wife and I joined those initial queues! (And would you believe that my application was easier than hers! I had acceptable documents with me and she didn't.

She was furious, saying that, on top of not getting ration card, voters card, etc etc, this was just another example of her own bureaucrats messing her around (oh, yes: she is Indian).

(But she went back with another paper, stood in the queue again, in some old school building in the blazing heat, and got the application accepted)

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by binand

In 2006, when I was living in a crown dependency of UK, a law was passed that among other things, made fingerprints mandatory for applying for a visa. So when in 2007 my work permit expired I requested a transfer back to India rather than allow my biometrics in the database of a foreign country (though I was short of only 1 year for PR; many people told me I am being an idiot).

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks for sharing your experience.

The level personal and professional details that I shared to get a PR was surprising for me. So yeah, there's no escape from sharing our data I guess.

[binand]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I respect your decision and doubts, but being an immigrant to this country, it is not something I am going to leave India over.

What can I say? This was 10 years ago, when I was a lot younger and less pragmatic.