[PM - B]

Originally Posted by GTO

Precision, detail & time - Pick any two .

An official review is of value to readers for the 6 - 7 years that a car is usually in production. It's even higher if you consider used car buyers.

@GTO

Would it be possible - in our 4x4 Section of the Compass TBHP review - we get a comparison of the AWD systems on other products vis a vis the Compass 4x4 and how they fare.
The AWD systems must vary in their implementations of power delivery and split and efficiencies
Especially as Compass 4x4 claims that EVEN if 3 wheels lose traction - up to 100% power can be given to one wheel

In certain implementations of AWD / 4x4 - there are cases/scenarios wherein if there is loss of traction on 1 front wheel and 1 rear wheel - the vehicle will not move

How an AWD with an open diff (but no EDL) behaves in an environment where traction is available(on both axles) vs where traction is not available(on atleast one axle) - Basiscall adverse conditions with variation in grip between front and rear
Eg- AWD on rocky surface - with open diffs should (IMO) work assuming that traction is avaialble - however - the same AWD in slush without traction but open diffs without electronic locking may not work

Power split ratios between front and rear axles if applicable and their implications
How does permanent(Compass 4x4 has a 4WD Lock) AWD help in cornering and effects of engine braking - this on regular roads
Advantages & disadvantages of running on 4HI / 4WD Lock on regular road (fuel consumption not being an issue)

I am sure there are many more scenarios to be explored

Categories

1. With Transfer Case / Center Diff & Low Ratios
I do realise that SUVs/ Vehicles with LSD & Low Range Transfers will/should beat the Compass easily in more extreme off roading scenarios.
But at least a relative overview

2. Without Dedicated Low Ratios
This category will have maybe different implementations of AWD and most probably open differentials.
ECD-EDL(via ABS)-LSD-OD-Torsen/Center Diff-Viscous Couplings - Haldex

Fortuner 4x4
Endeavour 4x4
Isuzu V Cross 4x4
Gypsy 4x4
Scorpio / Getaway 4x4
Thar 4x4
Tata Xenon 4x4
Safari 4x4
Aria/Hexa AWD

Ssangyong Rexton 4x4
Koleos AWD

XUV 5OO AWD
Yeti AWD
Honda CRV AWD
Duster AWD
Captiva AWD
Santa Fe AWD
Audi Q3 Quattro
BMW X1 XDrive AWD

[Shwet]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Just back from my TD at the mall of India noida. Went there with my cousin who had pre booked the car even before I official booking had started in June. The car looks great and looks as revolutionary as the ecosport did 4 years ago. There were always many people around the car at the mall while we were around. Drove around noida and here are our impressions.

Great engine with great performance all through the rev range. I compared it with our 2013 Fortuner and I can say that lesser weight is felt considering the car was much faster to take off with similar engine specs. The interiors were quite good and with the overall luxury quotient par for the price. The front seat was nice and the white leather looks and feels premium.

Coming to the negatives. First would be the back seat. Under thigh support for people over 6 feet is a bit less. I found the seat back also a bit straight to my liking. The touch screen did take couple of taps but was still ok nothing great. The price for the 4*4 models is a bit high in my opinion. There's a 2 L premium for the variant which I know adds 4 airbags but still felt a bit high. My cousin changed his booking from the petrol AT to the diesel 4wd due to the impending gst cess on the cars. Still the dealer says he is yet to get a single 4wd till now and can't commit for delivery before the end of the month. Overall a great car but at 24L on road Delhi for Limited 4*4 without accessories it's not the bargain of the year.

Yes , I agree with the 24 Lakh price being on the higher side. The compass is by no stretch of imagination a Luxury SUV in the West or the Middle east. Things are improving in India, however i still feel we end up paying much more for basic vehicles due to the dearth of quality products in the country.

Now if somebody wants a decent 4*4 or an AWD should he pay through his nose? What if I want a four wheel drive with basic safety features like ABS and Airbags? I can't buy anything less than 14-15 Lakhs on road. Or people can settle for a barebones Jeep (Thar) which looks great and is capable but is also mightily unsafe.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Shwet

Yes , I agree with the 24 Lakh price being on the higher side. The compass is by no stretch of imagination a Luxury SUV in the West or the Middle east.

Problem is that the prices are increasing way too fast as compared to the affordability. 12L on road would get you sub-4m vehicle in cities like Bangalore these days, even a top spec Innova has moved up the ladder to around 25L on road. Forget getting a good 4*4 SUV at 14- 15L.

But then, that's a topic for another thread altogether.

[Shwet]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Problem is that the prices are increasing way too fast as compared to the affordability. 12L on road would get you sub-4m vehicle in cities like Bangalore these days, even a top spec Innova has moved up the ladder to around 25L on road. Forget getting a good 4*4 SUV at 14- 15L.

But then, that's a topic for another thread altogether.

Prices are going North at an alarming rate. The Manufacturers have also jacked up the prices of their vehicles and affordability has gone for a toss. A sub 4 metre SUV like an Ecosport or Brezza costs more than some bigger Sedans and MUV's like Ertiga. However as you rightly said maybe we are digressing from the point.

The build quality of Compass is probably the best I have seen in a car below 30 lakhs. The heavy doors , bonnet and tail gate point out towards it's solidity. Funny part is I sat in a 2014 Compass in Muscat and it did not give an impression of a very solid SUV. It was decently built no doubt but did not feel as heavy as it's Indian Iteration.

So maybe the new generation is a quantum leap, we will have to wait for the official Team BHP review to come in for clarification.

[Arjun Reddy]

Originally Posted by Shwet

Yes , I agree with the 24 Lakh price being on the higher side. The compass is by no stretch of imagination a Luxury SUV in the West or the Middle east. Things are improving in India, however i still feel we end up paying much more for basic vehicles due to the dearth of quality products in the country.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Problem is that the prices are increasing way too fast as compared to the affordability. 12L on road would get you sub-4m vehicle in cities like Bangalore these days, even a top spec Innova has moved up the ladder to around 25L on road. Forget getting a good 4*4 SUV at 14- 15L.

But then, that's a topic for another thread altogether.

Come to think of it. The top spec 4*4 Compass will be around ₹14- 15L ex factory. The rest of the 10L is all taxes, except for insurance and handling charges.
How much more Compass can Jeep give for ₹ 11L after investing $280 million?

It's not that the cars are expensive, it's the taxes.

[Sawyer]

I can't help interjecting here - there is the Hexa that in its lowest trim costs 13 lakhs OTR without compromising on essential safety features and has most of the creature comforts as well.

As to 4x4 in general, it is overrated for use other than off roading - and I speak as one that had a Pajero SFX for a year. It - as is the Hexa - was rear wheel drive and that took care of a lot of situations where a front wheel drive like Compass will need drive to the rear wheels as well. A driver of modest skills will be able to go to almost any place desired in a 4X2 Hexa. Apart from places like Monsoon Challenges and the like to which I don't see any Compass owner taking their car either for fear of damaging an expensive car.

Rear wheel drive cars such as Innova do Leh Ladakh effortlessly, and the 4x2 Hexa will as well.

But if you must have fancy brand ownership, you have to pay a hefty premium - one example, Compass.

[Torquedo]

Okay, I might get bashed up for my trailing comments, but following are my viewpoints on the Compass Pricing -

So, the real reason (what I feel) why there is so much hooplah (going gaga) on the pricing is -

1) There is no tangible 170 BHP MT Diesel in the close vicinity of 19L odd pricing of the Compass.
2) Build Quality - We Indians are not habituated to such build, Maruti's, Hyundai's shall never offer the same build in the next light years to come, they anyways are milking us with 860 Kg Sedans.
3) The Indian affinity of owning SUV's, this is more of a compact SUV, far off from a proper SUV.
4) 4X4 - Please, on a serious note, how many buy the 4WD's for serious mud plugging and to add it what % of their drive constitutes the use of a 4WD.

To summarize, 19L as a starting point is neither something to crave about when viewed in isolation (19L is a damn substantial amount financially) nor when compared to Duster's @ 17L, Creta's @ 18L, SCross 1.6 @ 15.5L (These are grossly grossly overpriced products).

To add to the above stated, someone with a stretched budget of 12-14L, thinking about plonking 20 odd just for build and other tertiary factors sounds too witless to me.

Disclaimer: All the above stated are my personal views, no offence was intended to any owner or perspective owners.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

To summarize, 19L as a starting point is neither something to crave about when viewed in isolation (19L is a damn substantial amount financially) nor when compared to Duster's @ 17L, Creta's @ 18L, SCross 1.6 @ 15.5L (These are grossly grossly overpriced products).

To add to the above stated, someone with a stretched budget of 12-14L, thinking about plonking 20 odd just for build and other tertiary factors sounds too witless to me.

Just out of curiosity, what would be a reasonably priced product according to you in the over 15L price range?

Man, even I want a Compass, but I have to admit that it is beyond me and I have to pick something that I can afford. No point in complaining about the price, esp. when there are thousands willing to pay for it.

[npulyani]

I had a visit to Solitaire Plaza Gurugram for an official meeting yesterday. The building also has Jeep dealership (Landmark Jeep) & they had 6-7 Compass parked in front of their showroom.
I spoke to one of the sales guys who was very enthusiastic about Compass himself. He said he's never seen so much of rush in this showroom in his 3 years stint with them. They're receiving 15-20 inquiries everyday with high conversion rates compared to their earlier inquiries conversion into orders. He added that they have got 8-10 weeks waiting depending upon variants. Maximum inquiries are for Diesel AT.
I'm sure a lot of Creta AT/ XUV 500 AT potential buyers are considering it. The guy parted off by saying happy times are back for them. Really hope this turns out to be a game-changer for an automobile company which has high build quality & great products.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy

It's not that the cars are expensive, it's the taxes.

Absolutely!

Prices are going up across segments that almost all products coming out these days are recieved as overpriced entries (but some still sell).

If my memory serves me right - TATA Tiago, Renault Kwid, Ford Figo and Aspire, Isuzu VCross and Jeep Compass were only some of the very few exceptions where the price has been well received at launch.

Naturally, all of them have been attempts from a brand to capture the market segment for the first time.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

Rear wheel drive cars such as Innova do Leh Ladakh effortlessly, and the 4x2 Hexa will as well.

But if you must have fancy brand ownership, you have to pay a hefty premium - one example, Compass.

True. But the fancy brand to the Hexa 4*2 is the Innova from Toyota. Hexa is a better vehicle at much better value for the asking price, but the market won't see beyond the Innova (which has a legacy built over time to back it up).

[Shwet]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Okay, I might get bashed up for my trailing comments, but following are my viewpoints on the Compass Pricing -
=========
Disclaimer: All the above stated are my personal views, no offence was intended to any owner or perspective owners.

Wonderful post, I chuckled along while reading this. Most of the points are well argued and you have hit the nail on the head regarding the pricing of some products. Agreed we are all automobile aficionados on this site, however still 19 Lakh for build quality and brand name is a lot of dough.

Still the heart sometimes overrules the head.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Absolutely!
======
Hexa is a better vehicle at much better value for the asking price, but the market won't see beyond the Innova (which has a legacy built over time to back it up).

Yes, much in the same way as Tata's Legacy was built (or ruined) by it's earlier offerings. The point is we straitjacket terms like reliability by going on past experiences. Off late we have to admit that TATA has upped it's game. Maybe it all came together after the jaguar acquisition.

One cannot deny sharing of technology/expertise under one platform. It's quite conceivable that some of that input has been used in developing new products. Regarding Innova, well Toyota has built it's legendary reliability over the years and I have seen Innova Taxi's with more than 400,000 KMS on the ODO still running smoothly.

[Torquedo]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Just out of curiosity, what would be a reasonably priced product according to you in the over 15L price range?

I have hardly suggested anything on my previous post, on the forum, I generally share my thoughts/findings.

There is None if you ask for a VFM product, you can look at Hexa XE and XUV 5OO W4, which are below the 15L mark.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

No point in complaining about the price, esp. when there are thousands willing to pay for it.

I shall repeat that I did not complain, just expressed my views.

Even if there were a gazillion paying for it, that would not make it priced sensibly for all. There are millions buying the Swift but then there are smart headed people who buy the Figo, that does not mean that I am complaining about the Swift pricing, I just feel that Figo is aptly priced for what it offers.

What my thoughts were aiming at is, Jeep has not done wonders by the way they have priced it, we are so habituated to scout and buy overvalued products that this pricing seems sweet.

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by Shwet

however still 19 Lakh for build quality and brand name is a lot of dough.

Its not only build quality, the overall package including the way it looks, quality levels, driving dynamics and most importantly the engine collectively working in favor of Compass.

Originally Posted by Shwet

Still the heart sometimes overrules the head.

True but in this case we must not forget the heart Compass has under its hood- 2.0L Multijet II, 173PS at 3750, 350NM at 1750-2500 rpm.

[streetfighter]

Looks like Renault has already felt the Compass heat and offering massive discounts on the Duster - source http://www.news18.com/news/auto/rena...h-1488797.html

Let the good times begin

[narsi_6989]

Originally Posted by streetfighter

Looks like Renault has already felt the Compass heat and offering massive discounts on the Duster - source http://www.news18.com/news/auto/rena...h-1488797.html

Let the good times begin

If I am not wrong, this offer is only for the members of 'Gang of Dusters'. You can become a member only if you are official owner of a Duster and not even any other car of Renault. AFAIK there is another thread in our very own forum discussing it - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...s-members.html