[Cool_leo_guy]

Originally Posted by sharktale

I think diesel gensets would be the best alternative. This is because, diesel would readily be available in the pump at all times. Moreover, for solar and wind implementation, a detailed analysis of each pump would have to be made to choose the preference, which would be cumbersome.
Also, the gensets are a mere backup option. The main power would be drawn from the grid, whose availability is increasing day by day.
In my opinion, diesel gensets have better economies of scale at the end of the day.

IOCL has installed solar panels on many of its pumps and they are running completely on solar power, and not just in remote places but along highways and in small cities where power cuts are an issue. They just have to increase the capacity and load. Of course this should be carried out after due diligence.
The idea is to move away from fossil fuels. If we keep burning diesel then what difference does driving an electric vehicle make.
We will still be spewing out noxious greenhouse gases.

[sri_tesla]

Many people still seem to believe that EVs are not much environment friendly compared to petrol/diesel based vehicles citing variety reasons.

1. It may be true to some extent in the earlier days, where majority of the grid is based on fossil fuels (thermal, gas, etc...) power plants. Its not true anymore. In 2016-17 alone, India added the same capacity of renewable energy plants (11GW) as thermal plants (11.5 GW).

Move towards solar and wind power plants is going to be even quicker and India many coal based power plants are being stopped in the planning stage itself.

2. Another major aspect is home charging. With falling of solar panel, module prices more people with cars will install solar over their roofs along with batteries to provide backup. It may not happen overnight but it will be common phenomenon in the next 5 years.

3. Zero emissions while using cars compared to petrol/diesel vehicles reduces pollution drastically in cities.

4. Major part of the older batteries can be recycled.

5. Mining and production of batteries is nothing compared to the costs involved in continuous mining of fossil fuels.

6. Moving to EVs is much more beneficial to countries like India which has to rely on imports totally for petrol and diesel.

7. In India, we will have sunny days for more than 10 months out of 12 per year. We just need to build many more mega solar parks.

8. This year solar power reached price parity with coal based power. Mega solar parks in Madhya Pradesh and Andhra pradesh are quoted to provide power at around Rs 3 per unit, which is less than many state discoms power plants based on coal.

Even great thing is these prices will be same for another 25 years.

[sgiitk]

For this to suceed we need:

1. Grossly reduced taxation.
2. Charging Infrastructure on Highways. You need to be able to stop, and refuel yourself and the car every three to four hours.
3. Even buildings will need provision for charging points.
4. Rapid response to vehicle breakdowns if they run out of juice. Remember in most of India AC is mandatory.
5. Allowing company owned service facilities, since the normal IC Engine boffin will be able to do zilch.

[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by A M

Why isn't anyone talking about promoting this?

Another link.

Because in California Hydrogen is only viable due to the infrastructure. In the Bay Area and Los Angeles area (suburban areas) Hydrogen fuel stations are able to be installed due to manufacturer support and also CARB (California Air Resources Board) funding.


EV's are a huge possibility depending on the infrastructure. The same way in the Continental US and Europe Tesla and VW(soon) have setup Superchargers or DC Fast charging. That needs to be implemented in India to have a proper impact.

Unless in India there is funding/subsidy, a hydrogen fuel cell is a tough sell.

[Durango Dude]

I think this is an useless proposal. Nothing works as it should in our country. I think the call of the hour is a clean, efficient and punctual public transport system and roads, not eVehicles to add to the already burgeoning vehicle population. There must be a step wise discouragement of buying and owning vehicles. It may sound like a lousy proposal on this forum but that's the way forward.

[vivee90]

IMHO this is a great policy inorder to promote the penetration of EVs in India. As against the subsidy model which is followed elsewhere in the world to promote sales of EVs, this is much more holistic and keeps the interests of people (affordability and convenience) in mind. The way I see this, EV batteries could be the next generation LPG cylinders in India. Most of us would agree that the distribution and business model of the cylinders has been quite well suited for our society (for all economic levels). However, the batteries might not delivered to homes but to specific centres where it can be swapped.

The only thing is convincing OEMs to design and make such vehicles specific to India. Since we have the sales potential, OEMs would definitely invest to make such compatible models. Since, other developing markets south of China could follow suit. Moreover, the initial policy push is for 2 wheelers and non A/C buses which is more lucrative for us.

Regarding the battery tech, I think swapping could be the main energy source supplemented with charging stations for our conditions. Robotic swapping of vehicle batteries has been attempted before (though not successful due to various reasons) and with strong regulatory framework it could lead to development of a industry wide standard that is now lacking for charging systems and plugs of EV. Some links to show the battery swapping concept tried by a company (not anymore, sadly) called Better Place and Renault,

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...a4820/4336350/

More reading on the prospect,

https://qz.com/88871/better-place-sh...car-batteries/

I see this policy as a fresh and innovative approach than adopting the policies of matured markets which have a completely different social ecosystem and infrastructure.

And having an extensive charging network still doesn't remove the cost of the battery from the equation and government has to still spend money on subsidising the EVs and let customers at the mercy of dozen charging standards followed by different OEMs.

I very much look forward to the approval and successful adoption of this policy.

[A M]

Originally Posted by Bhatman510

Because in California Hydrogen is only viable due to the infrastructure. In the Bay Area and Los Angeles area (suburban areas) Hydrogen fuel stations are able to be installed due to manufacturer support and also CARB (California Air Resources Board) funding.


EV's are a huge possibility depending on the infrastructure. The same way in the Continental US and Europe Tesla and VW(soon) have setup Superchargers or DC Fast charging. That needs to be implemented in India to have a proper impact.

Unless in India there is funding/subsidy, a hydrogen fuel cell is a tough sell.

I totally agree to what you are saying.

Infrastructure is being created for EVs. It can be done for FCVs too. I was trying to attract attention to the fact that FCVs solve the problems that EVs face. They don't require any battery packs to be swapped or need fast charging infrastructure. Its like a regular car (fill-shut-go) and a much cleaner technology also.

Given all this, still not many governments are promoting FCVs over EVs. Lobbying? Ignorance?

[Bhatman510]

Originally Posted by A M

I totally agree to what you are saying.

Infrastructure is being created for EVs. It can be done for FCVs too. I was trying to attract attention to the fact that FCVs solve the problems that EVs face. They don't require any battery packs to be swapped or need fast charging infrastructure. Its like a regular car (fill-shut-go) and a much cleaner technology also.

Given all this, still not many governments are promoting FCVs over EVs. Lobbying? Ignorance?

Battery swaps have pretty much died. Elon's battery swap idea was too confusing and complicated (equipment). With cell capacities allowing 100kW and 120kW, the miles can be piled on to those battery packs.

The biggest issue with FCV's and there infrastructure is pressure. Hydrogen needs to be pressurized for a liquid state. The equipment takes quite a lot of time to be installed and validated. Took half a year to install a hydrogen station near my house. Even after installation the equipment could not send enough hydrogen due to a pressure imbalance. Toyota had to have portable stations at dealerships for customers to get some effective range out of the Mirai....


Currently the US govt. is all about EV's (although that could change any day of the week).

[dZired]

Government of India aiming for all-electric car fleet by 2030

The Government of India is aiming to have an all-electric car fleet by 2030. This information was revealed by Mr. Piyush Goyal, Minister of Power, New and Renewable energy, while addressing the CII Annual Session 2017. The chief objective behind this aim of an all-electric car fleet is to reduce fuel imports in the country. This would also limit the rising air pollution levels in major cities.

The Central Minister has further revealed that the Ministry of Heavy Industries and the NITI Aayog are currently in the process of drafting a new policy which will help in promotion and adoption of electric vehicles in the country. This new policy is expected to bring electric car prices on the same level as that of conventional fuel-powered vehicles.

Mr. Goyal further suggested that the Government might offer subsidies to all-electric vehicles in the initial stages (for the next 2-3 years), before the market achieves economies of scale and becomes self-sufficient. He also cited Maruti Suzuki as an example and claimed that with the Government's help and support in its initial days, Maruti has managed to become the country's largest carmaker.

Source: LiveMint

[sri_tesla]

Sooner or later, with or without govt subsidies, electric vehicle phenomenon will rule the world and India.

Its more or less similar to clean energy like solar power. Solar power used to cost Rs 15 per unit in 2011 much higher than coal power. Just after 6 years, now the solar power is around Rs 3 which is less than many coal power plants. Even at these lower prices competition is severe and the unit price is expected decline even more this year. Wind power cost also down to Rs 3.45 this year in auction. Same thing will happen with battery storage to support solar and wind power projects which are intermittent.

Automobile industry already had its iPhone moment in 2012, with the launch of Tesla Model S. Many incumbent industry leaders are reluctant to invest in electric technology just like Nokia, Motorola, Blackberry, etc...

Model S is now the highest selling sedan in its price range in just 3 years after release in USA. Model X also selling very well.

Only difference between the automobile industry and technology industry is automobile industry is a bit slow paced. These incumbent companies need to move fast from releasing concepts after concepts in the last few decades to actual production, otherwise they will struggle in future.

People would love to never ever have to buy petrol/diesel, have solar modules installed on their roofs along with batteries and charge their vehicles overnight.

[The Rationalist]

All electric car fleet by 2030 is day dreaming! The electric vehicles don't get any big tax benefit and what do they expect to change in a decade? If the government is so serious abolish taxes on electric cars for a decade , then people would go for them. At the current price point, where a Reva costs about ₹ 7 lakhs, why should somebody buy one? And even if the price comes down to conventional cars, the cost of replacing the battery still looms ahead.

[FIAT3031]

The Govt. has put forward an optimistic view of 100% EV Fleet by 2030, however with the existing (BJP) Govt. the dream seems more or less achievable.

Very clearly the Govt. is pushing the commercial sectors first ( Public Transport & Taxi) and lastly the private sector (personal vehicles)

With the EV in Public Transport, the charging infra will also co-develop

Indirectly Govt. is pushing the cab aggregators (OLA & Uber) to induce EVs

OLA has recently formed a new unit Ola Electric Mobility Pvt Limited for OLA EV. OLA has tied up with M&M for e2O+ models [Pilot project running in few Indian Cities before commercial roll out]

In case of Public Transport: Tata recently concluded its 1st successful commercial pilot run of EV bus in Shimla.

FAME Phase 2 is also likely to promote EV than Hybrids
Under GST too we can expect low(est) tax rates for EV Models

Another factor why EVs will grow in India is the upcoming CAFE Phase 2 ( 2022) & RDE (2023)
With BS 6, Diesel engines are most likely to see a major decline since the option price of Diesel is expected to be 2 times the existing option price.
Hence with only Petrol models in lineup (Fuel efficiency of Petrol < Diesel ); it will be difficult for OEMs to comply with CAFE Phase 2 targets
Thus leaving the OEMs to induce Hybrid & Electric Models in Lineup

[romeomidhun]

Mods, please delete this post.

[Ponbaarathi]

E-cars pollute more than BS4 vehicles, says Roland Folger, the head of Mercedes Benz in India.

Roland Folger, the head of Mercedes Benz in India, has raised doubts over the government's intention to entirely switch over to electric vehicles by 2030, saying that the cumulative pollution due to electric cars is higher than BS4 vehicles. Folger said that a large por tion of the electricity used to power electric cars is produced using fossil fuels, which pollute the environment to an even higher degree.

"So far, no one has been able to dispute the fact that electric vehicles would be dirtier than a Bharat Stage 4 vehicle," Folger told TOI as he questioned the government's target of having an entire fleet run on electricity by 2030. "How can it make sense? I think there will be an equal distribution of around 30% for petrol, diesel and electric. That would make a lot of sense."

The Mercedes India head said that nearly 65% of electricity in the country is produced using sources such as gas, oil, and coal. "... those power plants do not have any cleansing filters or whatever. They blow everything up in the air, and that's why they can produce electric power for very cheap."

Also, the low electricity prices may not hold on for long, especially with increased usage by vehicles owners. On the other hand, the price of diesel and other fuels will go down with less usage across the world, making them more affordable and desirable. Folger also said that it will be expensive for the Indian economy to make investments into cleanerrenewable power sources or charging stations at the pace at which the demand for power will come.

"The investments into a nuclear power plant, or into greener technologies like wind, hydro and solar, can only be re covered by charging more for the electricity... electricity price could easily become more expensive than the equivalent in diesel. So, what are people going to buy?" He said developed economies, including countries such as Germany , have not been able to afford the transition."It doesn't happen in Europe, and now Europe has tonnes of more money for these kind of issues, but it still doesn't work... India is still a country that does not have these kinds of budgets, even post-GST."

Pointing to large amount of CO2 emissions during the manufacture of batteries, Folger said, "... the production of the battery leads to heavy CO2 emissions ... that it takes nearly 7-8 years until they can lay out their benefits." He said that safe disposal of batteries will be another critical issue as the government pushes for electric vehicles.


Link to article: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/l...w/59841599.cms

[sgiitk]

They seem to have missed the bus with high taxation on EVs/hybrids etc in GST. The makers may have been prompted by branding all sorts of cars hybrids to bypass AK49s even-odd rule.