[condor]

Originally Posted by Gannu_1

. Probably meant for the US market?

May be for other LHD markets like Gulf ? US may get it's cars from Mexico which is closer.

Originally Posted by dash

Wow! The alloys looks like it is 'S' sports version. See: https://www.ford.com/suvs-crossovers/ecosport/models/s

The design available now here is:

Originally Posted by doxinboy

Since you have already booked the car, any imminent price hike may not affect you.

Prices at delivery will be applicable. The booking form would already state this. However, if fully paid, there is still a chance.

[Dramitn]

Originally Posted by condor

The design available now here is:
Attachment 1701130

Are those alloy designs being offered in the present facelifted EcoSport?
The SA here said that there are only 2 designs available now, the ones on titanium+(17 inches) and titanium model(16 inches)

[ku69rd]

Originally Posted by Dramitn

Are those alloy designs being offered in the present facelifted EcoSport?

No, these alloys are of the old ecosports prior to the facelift.
Believe they came only in the Platinum Edition fo Ecosports.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Ecosport might not be as heavy as Hexa, but is smaller,denser, built on more modern platform and a moncoque which comes with more effective crumple zones. It's like comparing 70KG Iron Bar with a 100KG cotton bag and since cotton bag weighs more, it is deemed to be stronger and mostly likely to win the battle when crashed against the Iron Bar.

Disagree

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Size or type will not decide which car is more safer. A Scorpio with 2 airbags will never be as safe as say a Etios. More the kit, better design, materials used the safer the car becomes. While we don't have safety rating for Hexa, I doubt if a 2 airbag Hexa be any safer than 6 airbag Ecosport. IIRC a 6 airbag Ecosport scored 5 star in NCAP safety ratings.

Disagree

Originally Posted by xjosephjacob

Sorry I don't even understand the point that's being conveyed in your post. The cases in question- Hexa and Ecosport- are both modern cars made from metal, and not a cotton bag and iron bar. The Laws of physics will prevail. Analogies of Nano overtaking a Skoda are best left to non-bhpians.

NCAP's safety rating are applicable to comparable masses only. Yes, Ecosport vs a Nexon, and not against Innova's and XUV's.

The influence of vehicle size and weight on safety in crashes cannot be undermined- as we can find in any of the whitepapers on auto safety. Here's an example: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/44/4/1

Unless there's credible evidence that objectively says Ecosport is safer than Hexa, I find no reason to call Ecosport safer than Hexa.

Thanks Agree.

Only way a similar NCAP significantly smaller vehicle 4-5 range would be safer is if it was from a much newer generation. Both Hexa and Ecosport are from the same generation. But noting that the same logic from xjosephjacob has not been able to convey this let me share third party logic.

"Bigger Cars Are Safer Than Smaller Ones
New small cars are safer than they've ever been, but new larger, heavier vehicles are still safer than small ones. It's a matter of physics: Bigger and heavier is safer than smaller and lighter. Large vehicles weigh more and have longer hoods and bigger crush zones, which gives them an advantage in frontal crashes.
In its studies, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has found that a heavier vehicle will typically push a lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there is less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on those in the lighter vehicle, according to IIHS. The organization's fatality data bears this out. The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles."

"Crash Test Scores Don't Compare Across Size Classes
One thing that can confuse car buyers is that cars of various sizes can carry identical safety ratings, making it seem that a small car is just as safe as a large SUV. It's not so."

"These ratings are only useful when you're comparing cars within the same size class. If a small car has a five-star rating from NHTSA, that doesn't mean it will protect you as well as five-star-rated large sedan. The same holds true for a Good rating from the IIHS.
"The ratings are meant to be used to compare crashes with vehicles of similar size," said Adrian Lund, president of the IIHS. "You can't really go between the segments with these ratings."
IIHS produced this video in 2009 to illustrate the differences in what happens to different-size cars in a crash: The smaller car loses. As Lund says in the video, "While all cars have gotten safer in recent years, you can't repeal the laws of physics.""

Quoting sections only.
Source: https://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/a...arge-cars.html

Other links:
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/geared/you...ze_matter.html
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag
and many many more..


These numbers speak for themselves. I guess we need not say anymore, hope you stand corrected. I would not have got on to this level of detail were it not for the fact that I found others too seem to be mistaken in general.

Yes if you were taking about comparing the Safari storm or Sumo with the EcoSort then I would totally agree, but the Hexa (and earlier the Aria) are totally newly engineered and are current generation.

The other aspect is that in the Ecosport vs in the Hexa the space in the cabin area and hence the distance between the frame and the driver / passengers is greater, further the distance of driver from the front and even the sides is greater and hence that makes it a safer proposition.

I do agree on one count that the presence or absence of Side Airbags vs the inherent greater safety in a bigger vehicle is hard to compute and so upto our own judgement. Hence I did go in for a vehicle with side airbags since my last 4 vehicles.

Laws of physics cannot be changed and a bigger car will always be safer than a smaller one unless we are comparing something like a sumo with the EcoSport where both are from significantly different generations. I with 100% conviction (having owned both an EcoSport and an Aria (Hexa) with 6 airbags in both cases are firmly convinced that I would be much safer in a Hexa rather than an EcoSport. Do note I presently only own the EcoSport and BMW X3 both with 6 airbags and am still stating that the Hexa in my view would be safer so it is not me being extra biased in favour of my current vehicles in any way.

The Proof of the pudding as they say is in the eating so will once again quote the most important statistic.

"The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles."

I think we all do understand which segment the EcoSport would be closer to and which segment the Hexa would be closer to.

Lastly let us also remember that there are a percentage of accidents (about 25%) that would be us getting rear ended (Hit from the rear) and a 7 seater much larger Hexa is bound to be much much more safer than a 5 seater smaller Ecosport or for that matter any small 5 seater SUV including, Creta, Breeza, Duster etc. That is the value of having 7 seats and still traveling only with 5 passengers and keeping the last row seats just folded down. Safer if a Truck or a Bus hits you from the rear.

Am responding at length above to clarify that there is no free lunch, we get what we pay for and in generally larger significantly more expensive vehicles would be safer irrespective of a 1 point difference in NCAP ratings. Let us remember that NCAP ratings also mention that they apply within segments and that they include parameters like pedestrian safety (Inversely safer actually in a smaller more rounder vehicle), child occupant safety in middle row etc.

[theapollohelios]

Originally Posted by harmanjeet14

Hi All,
Has anyone have information about a possible price hike from December?

My loan is in process and it will take another 2-3 days to be sanctioned but my SA has been pressurizing me to make the payment today,saying that he is fully confident that there will be an increase in prices from tomorrow.

Thanks.

I too have been pressurized to make the payment by today. However, I wanted the invoicing to be of December, hence didn't make my downpayment. My loan has been processed. I could have easily gotten my car by today, but they insisted that they wanted me to transfer the amount and the SA was not very willing to accept a Cheque. Will be transferring the down payment tomorrow.
However, my SA never mentioned about the price increase. I clearly understand that he wanted to invoice it on November to meet his target.
By the way, I booked mine at Metro Ford - Bangalore. Will be taking delivery on Wednesday - Titanium Diesel MT - Silver.

[srinath34]

I hope it's not a crime to ask "When the official TBHP review will be out".

I have many non-BHPians waiting for this review in order to place or not place their orders for the new Ecosport.

Originally Posted by Dramitn

Are those alloy designs being offered in the present facelifted EcoSport?
The SA here said that there are only 2 designs available now, the ones on titanium+(17 inches) and titanium model(16 inches)

Originally Posted by ku69rd

No, these alloys are of the old ecosports prior to the facelift.
Believe they came only in the Platinum Edition fo Ecosports.

These alloys have had a lot of negative reviews of late. This may also be due to the 17" size coupled with stiff suspension. They were offered on the UK export model but maybe of extra orders it has been launched in India as part of the Platinum edition. For UK roads, these may suit well.

Watch out before investing on these.

[Dramitn]

Originally Posted by srinath34

These alloys have had a lot of negative reviews of late. This may also be due to the 17" size coupled with stiff suspension. They were offered on the UK export model but maybe of extra orders it has been launched in India as part of the Platinum edition. For UK roads, these may suit well.

Watch out before investing on these.

Yes, I concur. On my test drive I found the titanium to be a bit more agreeable than the titanium+ with regard to the comfort over rough roads. I think for our roads the 16" tyres would be better suited.

[manish_symc]

Friends,
Today, I got delivery of my Moon Dust Silver colour ecosport, its T+ Diesel.
Thanks to all of you for your valuable suggestion.

team-bhp.com Rocks!!!

~Manish

[Jude300]

Originally Posted by ACM

"The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles."

Though I agree on most of the argument, I beg to differ on the above. Do we have a count on the number of large SUVs on the road vs small cars? Don't you think we need to factor that too?

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by ACM

Only way a similar NCAP significantly smaller vehicle 4-5 range would be safer is if it was from a much newer generation. Both Hexa and Ecosport are from the same generation. But noting that the same logic from xjosephjacob has not been able to convey this let me share third party logic.

I would have agreed had you provided data on crash rating for Hexa from an reputed organisation which I couldn't find. The Hexa is based on exactly same platform as Aria launched 10 years ago and same platform also hosts the new Safari Storme. The EcoSport was developed under Ford's global product development process. It is based on the 2011 Ford Fiesta B2E platform. The Ecosport platform is also 6 years old but atleast the car is tested for safety.

Quoting from and old article about Aria from Autocar " Take, for example, the Tata Aria 2WD. When it was launched a few years ago, an engineer admitted that a few body reinforcements had been removed; there were no plans to sell the Aria 2WD in Europe and hence, it wouldn’t have to meet Euro NCAP norms. The resultant 45kg weight loss no doubt improved fuel economy and the fewer materials used in construction helped lower the cost of the Aria."

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...-safety-375843

Until there is a safety result published for Hexa, I don't see any point in discussing the topic.And if Hexa scores well in a world wide approved safety test, I would be happy to accept it to be safer.

[findviru]

Originally Posted by manish_symc

Friends,
Today, I got delivery of my Moon Dust Silver colour ecosport, its T+ Diesel.
Thanks to all of you for your valuable suggestion.

team-bhp.com Rocks!!!

~Manish

Congratulations Manish. Share your experience with the car.. where did you purchase it in Pune?

[bhpfaninblr]

Originally Posted by findviru

Congratulations Manish. Share your experience with the car.. where did you purchase it in Pune?

Congratulations. Looking forward to your ownership review. Will be interesting to look at the sales figures of Ecosport next month. This thread is such an active one in team-bhp

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by ACM

Am responding at length above to clarify that these is no free lunch, we get what we pay for and in generally larger significantly more expensive vehicles would be safer irrespective of a 1 point difference in NCAP ratings.

Though this discussion has gone off topic, I'm pitching in with my opinion because I think there's value in having these off the cuff debates. I generally agree that larger, seven seater vehicles are significantly safer than smaller ones, particularly for passengers in the middle row, and especially in relatively smaller accidents.

Although this is merely anecdotal evidence, this was borne out a couple of weeks ago when one of my relatives' Innova rammed into a stationary truck on the highway and another truck then hit it on the back. Neither the driver nor my uncle—in the middle row—were wearing seatbelts. The vehicle was totalled but both passengers escaped relatively unscathed. It was a taxi so I'm sure it only had rudimentary safety features, but I feel certain that it was the sheer heft of the car that saved the day.

[AYP]

Originally Posted by Jude300

Though I agree on most of the argument, I beg to differ on the above. Do we have a count on the number of large SUVs on the road vs small cars? Don't you think we need to factor that too?

The data is per million cars. So the difference in actual number of both the types of cars on road has already been neutralised by taking deaths per million registered vehicles.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Jude300

Though I agree on most of the argument, I beg to differ on the above. Do we have a count on the number of large SUVs on the road vs small cars? Don't you think we need to factor that too?

Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-auto-sales/

"Big vehicles have greater than 50% of the sales. This should sufficiently substantiate the earlier figure implying that deaths in smaller vehicles is much higher though they sell in smaller numbers. Anyways as AYP has also pointed out the numbers are per mn so the absolute sales do not matter.

Big vehicles are booming
and cars aren't keeping up.
Sales of light trucks grew five times faster than cars last year, increasing 10 percent compared to 1.8 percent for cars.

Since the end of the recession, sales of cars and trucks had been neck and neck: Americans bought about 39,000 more trucks than cars in 2013. But in 2014, light trucks dramatically pulled away, outselling cars by 685,000 vehicles. Sales of midsize cars, which include the typical family sedan, actually shrank 0.5 percent."

Originally Posted by PrideRed

I would have agreed had you provided data on crash rating for Hexa from an reputed organisation which I couldn't find. The Hexa is based on exactly same platform as Aria launched 10 years ago and same platform also hosts the new Safari Storme. The EcoSport was developed under Ford's global product development process. It is based on the 2011 Ford Fiesta B2E platform. The Ecosport platform is also 6 years old but atleast the car is tested for safety.

Quoting from and old article about Aria from Autocar " Take, for example, the Tata Aria 2WD. When it was launched a few years ago, an engineer admitted that a few body reinforcements had been removed; there were no plans to sell the Aria 2WD in Europe and hence, it wouldn’t have to meet Euro NCAP norms. The resultant 45kg weight loss no doubt improved fuel economy and the fewer materials used in construction helped lower the cost of the Aria."

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...-safety-375843

Until there is a safety result published for Hexa, I don't see any point in discussing the topic.And if Hexa scores well in a world wide approved safety test, I would be happy to accept it to be safer.

I did mention a lot more points that are quite absolute and simpler to infer from but since you have pointed to a select few let me elaborate on those.

I am aware of the weight saving in Aria 4X2 models at a later date (In part thanks to customers who value fuel economy more than quality and safety). I any case I did own the 200kgs heavier 4X4 Pride that had no such saving made. Ford has gone the similar route in the newer Figo and Aspire and paid the penalty in test as well. So it not really about one brand doing it almost every one has gone down this path. The Previous generation Innova and Fortuner against which the Aria and Hexa competed never even had a 6 airbags option.

It has been mentioned that EcoSport is a 5 star model but:
The Ecosport sold in India (read made in India) was awarded a 4 Star rating NOT 5. I am not aware (but please do point me to any newer test that have rated the current new model sold in India with 5 stars). Again as mentioned by me in the earlier post itself, pedestrian safety impacted the EcoSport ratings. Further the ESC (Electronic Stability Control) and I believe even TC (Traction Control) were / are present only in the AT variant and not in any of the manual variants. In contrast The Aria had ESC, EBD and TCS in most of their variants at launch. Further if you look at my original point that has been dragged to a safety competition it was about Hexa being an alternative and bigger. Now if printed and documented safety parameters only can be considered by some then XUV500 with a documented 4stars (again in it's pre facelift variant) should be an alternative enough. A bigger vehicle with 4 stars similar to EcoSport. The Team BHP report itself mentions that the 4X2 safety ratings (when pure 4x2 variant was released) mentions that NCAP ratings of the earlier 4x4 variants cannot be considered, implying that they did exist even if we are not able to google them up today.


Source: https://indianautosblog.com/2013/11/...sh-test-106645

The Aria was launched in India in 2010 Nov (Effectively 2011) I should know since I bought the first Aria Pride Night Shade Black 4X4 in Mumbai. It is not a generation older than the current generation EcoSport (a year in terms of global launch) and again the facelifts (Hexa and the new EcoSport) are similarly a year apart at most. Anyways for the purpose for which this discussion was initiated the XUV500 with 4 stars and AT too is an option.

Too much time spent on this, readers may take the facts as they seem fit/ I try to go for 6 Airbags in a BIG vehicle as far as possible, but there are compulsions that each one faces and this is not always possible else we all would be driving around in GLS or Q7 tanks.

Further on the point that 5 star rated cars generally take care of pedestrian safety better than 4 star rated cars, we should keep in mind that if we do have an accident then irrespective of who is at fault how the police handles in India will depend to a large extent on how the pedestrian come out of the accident and so it is equally important for the driver or just his surviving and then spending a substantial time in Jail will be of no use.

Now lets get back to the EcoSport Topic. I would not respond any further to this topic as we would then be digressing too much.