[1100D]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Looks like I've touched a raw nerve here. Anyway, each to their own.

I leave this thread permanently with a last NCAP video: https://indianautosblog.com/2016/05/...sh-test-232081

Yes you have!
And before you leave with a NCAP link, trying to come across as one who knows better, there are quite a few existing owners who know this fact, even Mahindra does.
Looks like a sizable chunk thats commenting on this thread would desire the Scorpio to be shelved, nothing new, has been happening since its inception. Its fashionable to do so. Whereas, the brand Scorpio isn't actually bothered about this, not at all and still manages to sell decently, inspite of varied product onslought from the parent company itself.

For this seemingly new-gen "learned, sophisticated, cool lot" Mahindra has other offerrings that they can be happy with.
If Mahindra offers products that cater to many different requirements, its entirely their business case, at the end of the day, its their business.
Thankfully, they are offering a closed body (Multi Utility) Ladder Frame 4x4 with Low-range transfer case with a MLD fitment option at a price that's half that of the similarly capable offering from Toyota. Where's the harm in that?

Was hoping that the Jeep Compass came with better offroad hardware, but it just came across as a wagon with a Jeep badge, nothing else.
As regards crash safety, I am sure they are doing something about it to score better, however, the only one it should be compared with is the Safari Storme (to prevent any apple/orange conversation) .
As regards the haters of the Scorpio brand, the good news for them, is that, far from phasing out the brand, the next generation scorpio program is pretty much in its middle stages somewhere in United states of America!

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Agree. They could have made it a "Mini Duster" by removing all the major quirks.

No offence, but for the love of God please do not keep posting stretched pictures of cars and state that designers could have done this etc. sure, you are free to express and post what you want, but to keep seeing abnormally stretched pictures of cars all the time and on top of that stating that the stretched picture is a better iteration than the original, now that's an overkill!

Anyway, coming back to the new Scorpio, i think Mahindra are trying to milk it while they can. There aren't many options of proper hardcore SUVs south of 20L and they continue to do what they can till competition comes to their doorstep.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by motorworks

There aren't many options of proper hardcore SUVs south of 20L and they continue to do what they can till competition comes to their doorstep.

You hit the nail on the head. Though Scorpio, isn't hardcore by any stretch of imagination but ain't too bad offroad (I have been using one for almost 7 yrs, flawlessly for around 170k on odo and across very challenging situations, some of which is documented on my own ownership thread).

But then, back in the day, I was asked to get an Innova for the family. I could only afford one vehicle. My ownership prior to that was mainly low-slung agile cars and I wanted another to be added. Then there was the Thar program that was still in its final stages. But a Thar wouldn't have been practical for more than 2 people, less said about the Gurkha the better. So got myself to agree to get a MUV provided it comes with additional capability to keep things adventurous. Hence the target went to Safari and the Scorpio, the Safari intercooler positioning and the large front overhang was something that I did not like, hence the Scorp.

So for all practical purposes, even if one does not consider it as a hardcore offroader, no harm in considering it as the most offroad capable Multi-Utility vehicle (MUV). That's how I see my vehicle. Its a workhorse that hasn't yet let us down, instead given us memories that no other vehicle has given us in just a short span.

Would I even consider a XUV as a replacement for the Scorp 4x4, No way, not our kind of vehicle.

That being said, I really hope this version fares better on the crash test.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by motorworks

No offence, but for the love of God please do not keep posting stretched pictures of cars...

No offence taken, rather, I am very much happy that you hate it - because I see your love is towards the anti-naturals like the KUVs, Brios, Xylos and that black+yellow paintings as shown in your avatar.

This forum is a democratic one and allows to express your feelings. If your car is ridiculed - not by one but by many and if it is on the verge of phasing out due to lack of demand, the problem is with the car and not with the public.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

No offence taken, rather, I am very much happy that you hate it - because I see your love is towards the anti-naturals like the KUVs, Brios, Xylos and that black+yellow paintings as shown in your avatar.

This forum is a democratic one and allows to express your feelings. If your car is ridiculed - not by one but by many and if it is on the verge of phasing out due to lack of demand, the problem is with the car and not with the public.

I suppose you did take offence, else you wouldn't go looking at my avatar and comment on a Yellow mustang in the back ground!

And in any case a badly designed car is a bad car, no doubting that! I don't know as to from where you made up this statement that I love Xylo and KUV. Do not state something that one has not said. That's bad defence! And I own a Rapid, so that says enough about my taste in cars and I do not have to justify what I like or do not to someone who creates such outlandish stretched images. And this comment of mine is not just for this thread, I have noticed such images in many threads even where the vehicle design is fairly acceptable.


Secondly if you keep stretching images in hideous ways and posting it in all threads then some one is bound to comment! And like you said this is a democratic forum and if you post something it will be read by many and you should be also open to debate or disagreement.

Bottom line is that these images you post are hideous and have no regard for design. That's my opinion. I'm free to say that here as much as you are free to post those.
And if you choose to defend by commenting on my profile picture, then it shows that even you cannot defend the images you stretch!

Point is we can agree to disagree, I did not like your post so I commented, you can say you do not agree with my view and we can move on. Do not make up stuff and start over in a different tangent by commenting on my profile picture etc.

To all other T-BHP folks, sorry for my little off topic rant!

[ashutoshb]

To me, it's more jingoism than hatred or bias against Mahindra. I mean, do I care if Datsun continues selling unsafe cars? Hell, even if Datsun shuts shop tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

But, when Mahindra does the same. It somehow pushes a button somewhere. Maybe, its the wish to say that Indian cars are as good as any other car in the world.

When the Global NCAP videos of Indian cars came out, I somehow expected the budget hatchbacks to fair poorly, but not the Scorpio. The fact that it costs much more than the tiny hatchbacks, made it even more shocking.

For me, the mighty muscular Scorpio image got shattered. It also painted a sad picture of Indian cars and the safety norms in our country. And I felt pretty bad about it.

I loved the Scorpio. Way back, in 2006. I loved the way the second generation looked. And I loved driving it.

Will I buy it today? No. Because, I watched the Global NCAP video.

Quoting their report:

The protection offered to the driver head and chest was poor and the passenger’s chest received marginal protection. The passengers’ knees could impact with dangerous structures in the dashboard. The bodyshell was
rated as unstable and can not withstand further loadings.
Source: Global NCAP

Airbags wouldn't make the bodyshell stable. I think that everyone understands.

Now, I know the Bharat NCAP doesn't force Mahindra to make safer cars till Oct 2019 (Deadline for existing cars).

But, I was expecting Mahindra to set an example. The jingoist in me, wanted to defend its cars, tell the world, that Indian companies know better. That, even if a private testing company calls their car unsafe, they will answer them and everybody with a fitting reply. They will make it right and come out with a safer car.

But, at first, they chose to hide behind the existing archaic crash norms. And, now with an updated model too, nothing.

As a buyer, do I care how much is it going to cost to make it safer? No. I do not know how the business of safety in cars works. Thicker sheet metal, additional bars, heck, I don't know. All I know that they chose to do nothing and, as of today, it gives a pretty wrong message to me. That safety of their buyers do not matter.

Yes, it's the governments which are more responsible for the state of the safety scene in India today. But, that doesn't mean car makers should not be blamed. They took full advantage of the lack of safety norms. And made more money in the process.

Simply put, Mahindra will continue to milk the current Scorpio till it is forced not to. Safe or not safe, doesn't matter.

Car makers say, when people will demand, the safety will be there. That's probably because most of the buyers do not know much.

Those who do, and are still buying, are voluntarily taking a risk they are aware of.

Those who don't, are innocent naive victims who think their car is safe enough. When one of them dies in an accident, the blood is on the hands of all those politicians, bureaucrats and execs at car companies, who deliberately delayed the norms or chose to do nothing, for their own interests.

Yes, I can buy any other car. And I will. But, not from the Mahindra stable. I do not know how safe any of their cars is. At least, not until Bharat NCAP starts giving out ratings.

Till then, I might settle for something less capable, but safer. At least, if and when the time comes, my car's 'stable' shell might be the only thing between my life and death.

Some members might say, when I am not going to buy a Scorpio, why am I even bothering to write such a lengthy post. Well, I think, it matters to share what influenced my decision.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

To me, it's more jingoism than hatred or bias against Mahindra. I mean, do I care if Datsun continues selling unsafe cars? Hell, even if Datsun shuts shop tomorrow, I wouldn't give a damn.

Agree! Infact, the crashworthiness of a Ladder frame has much to do with the Chassis. They had the option of incorporating controlled deformations (crumple zones in laymans speak) when the new gen was in its drawing board.

On the otherhand, although am curious about the crash test results of the Safari Storme, since Tata has in-house crash test facilities am expecting that to fare much better.

In anycase this is still a stop-gap arrangement to keep the Scorpio fresh, till the next completely re-designed Scorpio, which is currently being designed in Mahindra's design center in US, in accordance to multi geography upcoming regulations, but that is a grounds up project and 2019 is probably the earliest we will see it on our shores.

[ACM]

My Take:

1) I feel M&M has added more power in a chassis NOT capable of handling the same. Yes many Scorpio driver are very very capable but relative to other cars in the same segment it is not too stable and hence not too safe. I have driven each iteration of the Scorpio over the years and seen it get more and more stable and better in everyway. But it seems to have some basic flaws that no amount of reengineering seem cure. It is not safe enough in my view even for the price. I here compare with Tata and Renault and not Toyota which is at a different price point.

2) Some interior flaws like accessing the Door pockets without opening the doors should have been solvable though.

3) I like the new Grill and Headlamp rework.

4) Like the Safari the Scorpio too does not need to be designed to be as tall on the inside as it has been. But that would be a full rework model change.

These changes will not help sales for too long and after an initial surge over 2 months the overall downward trend would continue.

[ashutoshb]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Agree! Infact, the crashworthiness of a Ladder frame has much to do with the Chassis. They had the option of incorporating controlled deformations (crumple zones in laymans speak) when the new gen was in its drawing board.

Many thanks for the valuable info, @1100D.

It then shows how, in order to avoid spending money, Mahindra chose not to do it.

Originally Posted by 1100D

In anycase this is still a stop-gap arrangement to keep the Scorpio fresh, till the next completely re-designed Scorpio, which is currently being designed in Mahindra's design center in US, in accordance to multi geography upcoming regulations, but that is a grounds up project and 2019 is probably the earliest we will see it on our shores.

That is indeed, great news. I am eagerly awaiting to see how the new Scorpio will turn out. The 2019 Scorpio might be the one, which Mahindra might announce in the press conference in Detroit on November 20. (Source: The Detroit News)

Originally Posted by 1100D

On the otherhand, although am curious about the crash test results of the Safari Storme, since Tata has in-house crash test facilities am expecting that to fare much better.

It sure does look suspicious. If Tata has their own crash test facility, why wouldn't they share the safety credentials of their cars. I am sure they don't anything positive about the Storme, otherwise they would have marketed it, at least.

The Zest, scoring 4 stars in the Global NCAP test, was a positive news for them, for sure.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by 1100D

In anycase this is still a stop-gap arrangement to keep the Scorpio fresh, till the next completely re-designed Scorpio, which is currently being designed in Mahindra's design center in US, in accordance to multi geography upcoming regulations, but that is a grounds up project and 2019 is probably the earliest we will see it on our shores.

Birdies tell me that the road testing should begin in around six months. However, a 2020 Auto Expo launch can't be ruled out.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by motorworks

...these images you post are hideous and have no regard for design.

With the same democracy that exists in this forum and we talk about, you can always comment like the above, but not the below:

Originally Posted by motorworks

...do not keep posting stretched pictures of cars...

That's my point, and as simple as any child can understand. Mods, sorry but had to make my point clear.

Coming back to the topic: if there is an average 4k people who buy the same old-bodied Scorpio, there is no problem in selling it as well. Just like what Maruti do with Omni and Gypsy. Just like what Royal Enfield do with Bullet. Call it 'milking' by the manufacturer, but I'll call it as a 'decision' made by the customer. Had Mahindra made Scorpio a sleeker one, all those politicians would not have opted for it. (But the case is different for KUV, as not much people are preferring the current shape .

[1100D]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Had Mahindra made Scorpio a sleeker one, all those politicians would not have opted for it.

The politicians/netas have fortunately (pun intented) moved to the Fortuner.

Which is actually a good thing. There's been a buyer demographic shift, a different set of people are buying the Scorp, they already have made that assessment.

To just remind folks, the Scorpio segment right now, has deliberately been fragmented by Mahindra itself to cater to multiple different requirements. People who need car like handling/behaviour can move to XUV500, people with need of a very practical spacious van, will be greeted by the U321. So Scorpio will cater to a niche set of people, who want an old-school looking SUV, with or without Offroad capability.

For a brief period, there was contemplation of using the Scorpio badge/brand to bring in the latest Rexton. But then, thankfully, Scorpio will keep its positioning, hence the investment on an all-new scorp.

[deemash]

Wish M&M had done something on the cramped interiors.

[needforspeed88]

Mahindra as a manufacturer has come a long way and deserve respect for that. However one needs to question certain decisions they have made in recent times especially with regard to product development. We were told last year by Mahindra as to how Mahindra are going to revamp their products but little did we know revamp means a botox job on the face and providing an engine spec which has been on Safari since time immemorial.

I loved the Scorpio when it was originally launched because of it's butch appearance and ruggedness to take on any terrain. Over 15 years now and the wheelbase remains the same which is one of the main reason for cramped interiors and poor dynamics, the bottle holder on the door cannot be accessed without opening the door, the ride despite having been improved is still a bit too bouncy because there is only so much you can do to fix without altering the wheelbase as it is a tall vehicle and you can only soften the suspension only so much.

Nudging nearly 2 million rupees on road there are no rear discs and we have a body shell which is a decade and a half old, no push button start which we get in cars which cost half as much as this. It takes ages to build a brand and if you milk it just based on it's reputation without addressing the fundamental changes necessary to move on with modern times you will end up going the Ambassador way.

There is no doubt Mahindra is making a killing in terms of profits on this model. Why not divert some of it to make those changes? By the time new one comes in 2021 a huge damage would have been done to the brand. Forget Scorpio even the main bread earner, Bolero continues to receive step motherly treatment. Once a symbol of prestige and snob value Scorpio is being slowly perceived as something too expensive and outdated especially in terms of space, safety, dynamics and interiors.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by needforspeed88

.... no push button start which we get in cars which cost half as much as this...

I don't think people who care about "start/stop" buttons are a demographic that will look at a Scorpio. They are best served by soft roader/hatches on stilts with lot of "features". Mahindra has other products to satisfy this crowd. But i do agree Mahindra needs to improve the safety/dynamics of the car. Improve the ride and also improve the off road hardware. Manually lockable diffs would be a great addition. It would greatly enhance Scorpio's off road ability, will be good for the brand and separate it from the wannabe SUV crowd.