[rajesh1989]

The future of Indian automobile sector sure looks disappointing. Ever rising prices with deteriorating quality standards. What perplexes me the most is a sub $20,000 car in the US equals a Honda Civic, a Dodge Dart, a Chevy Cruze, a Subaru Impreza, or a VW Jetta. But here in India, what we get for 15lacs is stripped down excuse of a car. I don't understand, are our labour costs that high or are our taxes that severe that we can't get a decent car for our money ?

[i74js]

Originally Posted by rajesh1989

The future of Indian automobile sector sure looks disappointing. Ever rising prices with deteriorating quality standards. What perplexes me the most is a sub $20,000 car in the US equals a Honda Civic, a Dodge Dart, a Chevy Cruze, a Subaru Impreza, or a VW Jetta. But here in India, what we get for 15lacs is stripped down excuse of a car. I don't understand, are our labour costs that high or are our taxes that severe that we can't get a decent car for our money ?

You are absolutely right in saying so; the taxation structure in India does not permit for fair quality below 15 - 20 Lac segment (typically entry level D1) and thus what we get is evident cost cutting in the machine we drive. Typically, even in the high end premium segment cars, several features are missing which are offered in developed countries and even some of the developing countries.

Lets take example of Ford, as I am aware of what they export from India. EcoSport (exported out of India includes)

- Ecoboost with "Dual Clutch Transmission" (Automatic Ecoboost)

- Both Diesel 1.5 and Ecoboost can be bought with "Four Wheel Drive"

Now EcoSport is very much a mass market offering from Ford, but the present taxation structure and stiff competition from Maruti, the product has lost its pole position to Brezza. Ecosport even after being produced and exported from India competes with other cars in multiple countries and returns profit for Ford.

The blame should therefore be both on Government, which wants to extract maximum taxation from cars and we the buyers who are equally responsible for selecting something which is relatively inferior compared to an internationally sold machine.

Lets hope that better sense prevails and other players start bringing their international products to India after the new safety rules for car set in !

[LazyGunner]

Last week I took a TD of Honda City VXMT Petrol with a plan of upgrading from our 5 and a half years old Ritz VXI Petrol.

Reasons for change:
1. When we bought our Ritz in 2012 we hardly understood cars. While wanting to save 30k, we bought Ritz VXI without ABS. ABS was optional in VXI. Although I have never been in a situation when I missed ABS on my car, it bothers me every time I hit the highway while my family is sitting inside the car.
2. Space: With a new addition to the family, Ritz is looking small all of a sudden. As soon as you put a car seat at the back, there's hardly any space there. A little bit of luggage along with that and people at the back will have to endure an uncomfortable journey.

So, with these two things in mind, me and wifey decided we should get a sedan. And Honda City is a natural choice if you have a cousin who owns a 2002 City Vtec and a 2006 Civic. We chose Petrol over diesel because somehow we both have never enjoyed driving a diesel car, Manual transmission because, we have not felt that it's a trouble to drive Ritz even in Bengaluru's peak-hour-slow-moving traffic and MT because we decided not to miss out on any feature (only if I had chosen Ritz VXI with ABS...). Besides, to own a top-end car has been something of a strong urge since we decided to change our car.

But the only problem is, I'm not entirely convinced about buying City now, even more so after going through this thread.
Couple of things I didn't like:
1. Build quality showed obvious lacking: when I closed the door after the test drive, I could feel the whole window glass shaking. Tried pressing side panel with just my thumb and sheet metal used for making doors looked disappointing for such an expensive car.
2. Missing features even in top end: Only two airbags, no rain sensing wipers, no LED lamps inside the car and for the rear lamps. Although I can live without LED and rain sensing wipers, I'd like to have it in my car if I'm paying 14.7L (on road in Bengaluru including extended warranty of 4th and 5th gear) for it. Interestingly, only automatic trim has these features, along with 6 airbags which I don't understand!!

[kcj3b]

Honda is not what is used to be 10 Years back or so.

I remember the First Gen Honda launched in India , many of them are still on road with all originals still working.
And today its a different story, Honda is trying to stoop down to the level of Maruti in terms of quality and Care.
An experience with a Brio was good enough for us to say bye to Honda!
Honda has made me believe that it saying can be true:

"Dont argue with a Fool, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience"

[AkMar]

Thanks to everyone for chipping in with their opinions and respective personal experiences. From all the responses it is clear that Honda is fast building a reputation for cost cutting and cheapness in their cars.

Originally Posted by Nohonking

Am I surprised? No no no! Not at all! There are similar bodily differences with various trims in Jazz as well. For instance, Jazz VX comes equipped with fender covers and mud guards. A step down, mud guards go missing in Jazz V. A step further down, both mud guards & fender covers go missing in Jazz SV. Thankfully, fenders do not go missing going down a step further.

Thanks for the confirmation that it is the same in Jazz. I had thought so!

Originally Posted by Nohonking

The thing is, they aren't learning from their mistakes and are bent upon repeating them time and again.

It takes products, ages, consistency, strategies, perseverance & trust to build a brand. The Honda brand in India is simply going to dogs though.

Honda needs go the either way: Premium or Basic. How much did Honda save here? More than the inconvenience & a bad mouth?


Agree! For someone like me for whom "under the hood" is the most important than anything else, it is the reliability of Honda cars still letting it sail. I hope, Honda atleast maintains this aspect.

Semi-premium brand? Yes, today, and if the trend continues, soon a "no premium" brand for sure. With Maruti trying hard to build its premium image with Nexa, Honda may soon get positioned below Maruti.

I think there's something really wrong with the think tank of Honda India. They are bent upon ruining themselves. My next car won't be a Honda for sure!

Fully agree with all these points you have made!

Originally Posted by Nohonking

IMO, the VFM Brio platform should be discontinued and Honda should focus on bringing more of truly international cars to India with all the features and quality built-in to every single nut used in construction(weather visible or not)!

You are right. However, VFM Brio platform? Definitely not. The platform maybe meant for cheap mass market cars but it is surely not VFM. The top end Brio AT costs nearly as much as Baleno Delta CVT! That is anything but VFM This is just an example. Across the platform you can find cars that aren't so VFM. Be it the Brio, Mobilio or BR-V.

Originally Posted by Biohazard

On a serious note, see if you can share your grievance with Honda's head office. You can mention this on their Facebook page too, as they are socially compelled to respond to your post.

They won't respond. I have tweeted this to them twice over the last week without any response till date. I also wrote 2 posts on their Facebook page but I am unable to find them now. They are probably deleted by Honda. Can you try it and let us know whether Honda responds?

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by kcj3b

Honda is not what is used to be 10 Years back or so.

I remember the First Gen Honda launched in India , many of them are still on road with all originals still working.
And today its a different story, Honda is trying to stoop down to the level of Maruti in terms of quality and Care.
An experience with a Brio was good enough for us to say bye to Honda!
Honda has made me believe that it saying can be true:

"Dont argue with a Fool, he will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience"

Would differ on this statement. It's a bit harsh. If you'd compare the Ciaz to the City, it's very well spec'ed and also has excellent build quality. Let's not even go to the "care" part. The whole Maruti mantra is around customer care. Every manufacturer has a "cheap" model or two and some good ones. That's how they'd make profit.

[Crankpin]

The Brio doesn't have rear inner wheel cladding as well. The rear bumper material is super-thin and warps/ bends easily. It's disappointing the way Honda is approaching their cost-cutting activities. My wife's 3.5-year old Brio in-spite of being the VX AT variant has inferior parts quality. The paint finish, plastic cladding, rear Mc Phersons all have shown poor quality.

The rear Mc Pherson struts were changed under a silent recall about 2 years ago but they have leaked again. Paint film thickness is very thin and small scratches show up bare metal inside.
But what worries me most is the unavailability of basic spares like air/ oil filters etc over the counter at Honda service stations. Why do I have to book an appointment just to change an air filter? I'm also fed up with the quality of stock Goodyear tyres on the Brio.

Otherwise, it's a great car with a smooth engine and of course being an AT it's a pleasure to drive. I probably wouldn't buy another Honda.

[deetjohn]

A sight from our parking at office. Its a City S Diesel.



No, no one removed anything. That's how it looks right from the factory. Really horrendous!