[SILVERWOOD]

Originally Posted by GTO

This is an incredibly stupid judgement. How can any seller ensure with 100% guarantee that the buyer will take care of the transfer? What if he's from another city? Am I going to follow him there? What if it's a car dealer?

As long as a car owner has sufficient proof that he has sold the car (delivery note, receipt etc.), that should suffice. I even took a video of the time that I sold my Civic on the building's CCTV camera .

It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the car is transferred in the buyer's name to avoid any kind of hassle in future.

I run a NGO called Drive Without Borders and i have come across more than 30 cases in the last 3 odd years of its existence where the seller did not transfer after repeated repeated requests and later went incommunicado.

The seller in such situations have very little option.I advise them to make notarized affidavit(s) addressed to the respective RTO and copy to the transport commissioner's/ additional Commissioner of Traffic stating that they have sold the vehicle to XYZ and the buyer has refused to transfer the vehicle after repeated requests.

Few has got reply stating that the seller will be held responsible unless the ownership is changed.

I consider this as a landmark judgement.

Waseem.

[JKBKS]

Spoke to a friend of mine who is senior IPS officer and a law degree holder. He has read the judgement and believes that it was in a specific context and cant be generalized. He thinks getting the car registered is Seller's responsibility and we can't force the seller on this.

When asked about the way out when selling the car, his recommendation is to inform the RTO, concerned Police stations (RTO area and your current residence area) and the Insurance company about the sale and the new owner when the car is sold and keeping the receipts of the same

[psp62in]

It takes a few weeks to get the vehicle transferred to a new owners name, even when the seller and buyer are keen to do so. In case of vehicles sold through agents, it can rake months. Certainly, the intervening period is going to give nightmares to the sellers.
Either the law needs to be amended for the vehicles in process of changing hands, or the transfer process needs to be changed to show the names of intermediaries.

[Nits83]

I find the decision not fair, I sold my car to Trident Used car Division in Bangalore was happy with the sale note I got. Now when I check the details via online sites the car is still in my name ... what to do I am not even sure if the car was resold ?

[ecenandu]

Originally Posted by Nits83

I find the decision not fair, I sold my car to Trident Used car Division in Bangalore was happy with the sale note I got. Now when I check the details via online sites the car is still in my name ... what to do I am not even sure if the car was resold ?

Exactly, we shouldn't be happy unless the name is changed. This verdict should be a eyeopener for everyone.

I also recently got involved in a case with a bike I sold in 2014. Will update the details once the case is resolved.

[//HB]

Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao

The insurance provider did sell a new policy to the buyer based on forms 29/30 (while I was technically still the car's owner on paper)

I have recently purchased a used car and i inquired directly with the insurance company about getting the insurance transferred to my name, for which i was told it cannot happen unless i produce the RC in my name.

Originally Posted by deetee

Well, I think the judgement here is in a way justified because, it is the sellers responsibility to ensure that there must be a valid insurance with the vehicle while selling it. SC doesn't blame the seller for criminal responsibility, it is the financial liability part.

So, if the buyer doesn't transfer the ownership (which can be checked online), the seller should file an FIR with sale proof which should force the buyer to transfer the ownership.

As a seller, I currently have a valid insurance cover on my car, but what if that expires and still the new buyer doesn't get the car transferred to his name ? Then technically it's as good as holding me liable for the car not having a valid cover I guess ?

And the actual transfer process (as I am experiencing right now !) takes ages, even in the same city the transfer hasn't concluded though two months have passed since I bought the car.

Originally Posted by sibot

Lawyer here... It's easy to critcise the SC, but they too have to operate under the ambit of the laws made by the parliament. We're debating whether the SC went into the merits of the case or not, but the SC was not taking into consideration those matters, they were restricted to the interpretation of the definition of owner under the MVA.

But isn't it true that such "blinkered" judgement results in a completely innocent person being punished for wrong-doing of another unrelated person ?

Originally Posted by SRK72

I have read somewhere that there is a procedure wherein a seller can inform RTO that a vehicle has been sold, and this would absolve him of any potential liability arising later. Any information on this?

I did mention this in a previous post on this same thread, but no one has clarified whether following that process will protect a seller from such liability. Legal eagles kindly contribute if possible.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by //HB

I have recently purchased a used car and i inquired directly with the insurance company about getting the insurance transferred to my name, for which i was told it cannot happen unless i produce the RC in my name.

No responsible officer at the insurance company will transfer the insurance name unless it has been done in the RC first. What if the forms are produced and insurance transferred but the person don't go ahead with the transfer? Once the name change has been done in the RC book the insurance should be changed within 15 days.

Originally Posted by //HB

As a seller, I currently have a valid insurance cover on my car, but what if that expires and still the new buyer doesn't get the car transferred to his name ? Then technically it's as good as holding me liable for the car not having a valid cover I guess ?

The matter is out of your hand, and we can only be rightfully paranoid about it till the transfer has been done.

Originally Posted by //HB

And the actual transfer process (as I am experiencing right now !) takes ages, even in the same city the transfer hasn't concluded though two months have passed since I bought the car.

Enquire at the RTO whether there is any outstanding fines against this vehicle. If fines are pending the process will not complete unless they are cleared. Like you I was waiting for a transfer to complete but it didnt and this was the issue.

[raghulsudheesh]

The Court's logic for the decision is(as in the judgment),

"“In a situation such as the present where the registered owner has purported to transfer the vehicle but continues to be reflected in the records of the registering authority as the owner of the vehicle, he would not stand absolved of liability. Parliament has consciously introduced the definition of the expression ‘owner’ in Section 2(30), making a departure from the provisions of Section 2(19) in the earlier Act of 1939. The principle underlying the provisions of Section 2(30) is that the victim of a motor accident or, in the case of a death, the legal heirs of the deceased victim should not be left in a state of uncertainty. A claimant for compensation ought not to be burdened with following a trail of successive transfers, which are not registered with the registering authority. To hold otherwise would be to defeat the salutary object and purpose of the Act. Hence, the interpretation to be placed must facilitate the fulfilment of the object of the law."

Those interested can read a detailed analysis here: https://theindianjurist.com/2018/02/...mpensation-sc/

[LiveToTravel]

Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD

It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that the car is transferred in the buyer's name to avoid any kind of hassle in future.

I run a NGO called Drive Without Borders and i have come across more than 30 cases in the last 3 odd years of its existence where the seller did not transfer after repeated repeated requests and later went incommunicado.

The seller in such situations have very little option.I advise them to make notarized affidavit(s) addressed to the respective RTO and copy to the transport commissioner's/ additional Commissioner of Traffic stating that they have sold the vehicle to XYZ and the buyer has refused to transfer the vehicle after repeated requests.

Few has got reply stating that the seller will be held responsible unless the ownership is changed.

I consider this as a landmark judgement.

Waseem.

I agree. Until the name is changed on RC, we should be constantly following up with buyer. Imagine, if not accident, the car is used for criminal activities and is left behind on crime scene. Cops will always get hold of the registered owner.
Back in 2012, when I moved to a different city I sold my car via OLX. I had given all signed transfer forms to the buyer, but for some reason they did not even submit the forms in RTO. After following up for few weeks, my patience ran out. I had to literally threaten them that if the car is not transferred, I will lodge a police complaint citing car lost. And guess what, this worked and with-in 2-3 weeks I got a copy of transferred RC.

[ariesonu]

Originally Posted by GTO

This is an incredibly stupid judgement. How can any seller ensure with 100% guarantee that the buyer will take care of the transfer?

It may sound preposterous but as being the most sought & loved Automotive Forum, we should put an alert kind of system on our CLASSIFIEDS section.
Like a HEADER on top of page or something.

Regards-Sonu

[//HB]

Here's some news about RTO's supposedly moving to an online transfer process ... Some of it seems too idealistic, e.g. "With the new system in place, owners should insist on delivering the vehicle only when the dealer finds a buyer.” We can only hope they fine-tune the process and make it workable in the real-world situations. Here's the link:

https://advisor.moneylife.in/article...cate/2617.html

Sale of used cars made stringent with online registration certificate

The transport department has made transfer of RCs (registration certificates) into an online process, which would require the presence of both parties to sign transfer papers, according to a report in the Economic Times.

“In most cases, people would sign forms 28 and 30 to transfer RC and keep those with the dealers, who fill in details only upon finding a buyer. This is illegal,” said an official. Rules say an RC has to be transferred within 30 days of sale of a vehicle. But for a used car, it could be months. “With the process becoming online, the forms would be generated online and both the buyer and seller will have to be present to sign the document. This will ensure transparency and curb malpractices,” the official said.

A printout of the form would have to be signed by both and then deposited with other documents, including the original RC, address proof, pollution under control certificate and insurance papers.

“The documents can be sent to the RTO (Road Transport Office) via speed post or deposited in designated drop boxes at the transport offices. There would also be designated counters for those who want to submit the documents by hand,” the official said.

“The responsibility of transferring the RC is with the original owner, and s/he should know who the vehicle is sold to. It doesn’t often happen when the vehicle is sold to a used car dealer,” the official, adding, “With the new system in place, owners should insist on delivering the vehicle only when the dealer finds a buyer.”

EDIT: here's the link to article in Economic Times https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/63213138.cms

[thesilentone]

It is impractical to follow up with the buyer whether he is registering the vehicle or not. Delivery note and sale receipt should be made sufficient evidence of having sold the car. Otherwise, just like property registration, vehicle sales should be concluded only in front of the RTO and registered then and there. I don't know how far this would be feasible but it seems to be the best solution.

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by //HB

Here's some news about RTO's supposedly moving to an online transfer process ... Some of it seems too idealistic, e.g. "With the new system in place, owners should insist on delivering the vehicle only when the dealer finds a buyer.” We can only hope they fine-tune the process and make it workable in the real-world situations. Here's the link:
...

Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD

...
I run a NGO called Drive Without Borders and i have come across more than 30 cases in the last 3 odd years of its existence where the seller did not transfer after repeated repeated requests and later went incommunicado.
...
I consider this as a landmark judgement.

Waseem.

Used car dealers (of varying degrees of honesty!) are a reality of life. There is no getting away from this. It is time Babudom also accepts the reality of the existence of these dealers. There are many, many situations in life where we will want to just get rid of a car ASAP - it is only a dealer who will pony up the cash and take the car on the spot.

The only way out is for the RTO to institute a process for "sale to dealer", where the dealer is legally recognized as the "keeper" of the car, but the number of owners does not increment on the RC.

Would this be something Drive Without Borders can take up with the Government?

[jetti]

Different state RTOs may be having different rules. Telangana RTO has given a Vehicle transfer intimation form on their portal:
https://www.aptransport.in/TGCFSTONLINE/Reports/VehicleTransferIntimation.aspx

[//HB]

Hello All, an update (maybe) to above thread - Centre notifies draft changes to motor vehicle rules, invites suggestions --- relevant links below

https://www.moneylife.in/article/cen...ons/54713.html

http://pib.nic.in/PressReleaseIframe...x?PRID=1538834

In case any members interested in going through the notification / submitting suggestions, here's the except of where and how

"Detailed notification in this regard is available on Ministry of Road Transport and Highways’ website www.morth.nic.in. The Ministry has invited suggestions and objections to the proposed amendments, to be sent to the Joint Secretary (Transport), Ministry of Road Transport and Highways, Transport Bhawan, Parliament Street, New Delhi-110001 or email at js-tpt@gov.in by the 11th of August this year."