[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Really hope the guys at Tata are not reading these posts! Sheesh!! So much of this, that, should be, must be, will be, ...

We are all becoming a bunch of self-righteous marketing gurus who can do no wrong.

We have absolutely no clue as to what the specs are going to be...

None of our guesses here are going to matter... We are clueless.

We've been here already, aren't we? I also feel we are just wasting our time speculating. But then not everyone is super busy and people do want to say what they think. But it does get difficult to search for some useful info among these speculative posts, which is my only complaint.

That said, "come on Tata, if you are listening, please price the Harrier on par with Nexon!"

As far as Tata are concerned, it's good that Compass's limited edition took its price a notch up. They have more room to play with now.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

But it does get difficult to search for some useful info among these speculative posts, which is my only complaint.

Absolutely. This is exactly why I made my post. So much of speculation without any facts. I try hard to wean out any "actual" information about the Harrier and have to scroll through so much speculation that it gets tiresome at one point.

Let's say, for argument sake, Tata does bring out a variant exactly as showcased at the Expo. With all the gizmos, 4 seater, sliding cabinet, 4WD, superlative panoramic sunroof etc, do they have to offer it at the least possible price undercutting even C segment vehicles, just because they are an Indian company with no "brand" value? I don't see any manufacturer offering such a feature this side of a luxury brand. Yet, we want it for free.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Let's say, for argument sake, Tata does bring out a variant exactly as showcased at the Expo. With all the gizmos, 4 seater, sliding cabinet, 4WD, superlative panoramic sunroof etc, do they have to offer it at the least possible price undercutting even C segment vehicles, just because they are an Indian company with no "brand" value? I don't see any manufacturer offering such a feature this side of a luxury brand. Yet, we want it for free.

Their brand value eroded not because of them being an Indian brand but because of the poor choices they made in the past like atrocious after sales service, quality compromises, ageing platforms. And the one innovative all new product they built(Aria) they made a pricing blunder. Now since the Zest they have been rebuilding their brand and it shows. A logical next step would be regaining the 7 seater segment with a well designed Safari replacement. This is a segment where they have brand value with the Safari brand.

Now launching an oversized premium 5 seater in a hazy segment where there is well entrenched competition means you cant command premium so pricing and features need to be on par. The version you mention above is good as a year 2 or year 3 variant once the Harrier brand is well established, has traction in the market, people feel reassured paying more for.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by nainan

Their brand value eroded not because of them being an Indian brand but because of the poor choices they made in the past like atrocious after sales service, quality compromises, ageing platforms.

Let's keep bringing back what happened 20 years ago. That's surely the way forward. We can discredit what has been happening over the last five years by going back every time.

I have one of the aging platforms that you mention. Guess what? It works. At 135000 kms in 7 years, it works as well as it did when I bought it. 6 cars each from Maruti and Tata, and I think I know the difference between perception and value.

For the two posts earlier, I have mentioned that we need to stop speculating unnecessarily till the time we have concrete information, which we don't at this point of time. How much ever you say that they have to concentrate on the 7 seater, it's the 5 seater that we are going to see. So let's stop talking about 7 seater for now.

Tata have their game plan in place. Our speculating will not change things for them.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

"No car like Harrier" in premium SUV segment, says Tata Motors' President

Does that mean they are targeting the premium SUVs? So it is Compass, Tuscon and Tiguan segment? I hope it would be between 17-20L OTR .

Quoting myself. The TATA Motors president said "No car like Harrier in premium SUV segment".

So that could mean Compass/Tuscon/Tiguan segment.

Now bringing VFM factor of TATA cars in recent times, I feel it might be priced between Creta and Compass!!

[nainan]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Let's keep bringing back what happened 20 years ago. That's surely the way forward. We can discredit what has been happening over the last five years by going back every time.

Since you were talking about brand value assuming its less because of it being an Indian brand I just clarified how it eroded in my understanding. I also have had a Safari 2.2 for about 10 years and it was an excellent product.

For the two posts earlier, I have mentioned that we need to stop speculating unnecessarily till the time we have concrete information, which we don't at this point of time. How much ever you say that they have to concentrate on the 7 seater, it's the 5 seater that we are going to see. So let's stop talking about 7 seater for now.

Please dont be preachy. The original thread was for both the 5 and 7 seater. Tata talks about both of them in every official press communication. I understand your your need for concrete information. The only place you would get it is on the Harrier website and from Tata press releases. You also have the choice to create a separate thread on Tata Harrier facts. I promise I will be good and not post any speculation on that one.

Tata have their game plan in place. Our speculating will not change things for them.

Now you are speculating. Tata has a game plan and that will keep evolving. They have been very receptive to customer and market feedback in the last few years so I see no reason to give my opinion.

Mods: I dont want this to be a flame war so request you to step in and clarify if we can/cannot speculate on this thread and I will act according to what you guys recommend. I also think when we merged the 2 Land Rover thread with the H5X thread and now just made it now named Harrier we are neglecting the 7 seater which too is talked about in most Tata press releases.

[Jeevith]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

Really hope the guys at Tata are not reading these posts! Sheesh!! So much of this, that, should be, must be, will be, high price, low price, brand value, 5 seater first, 7 seater first, sales volume, Creta, Jeep and the list goes on. We are all becoming a bunch of self-righteous marketing gurus who can do no wrong.

On the contrary, as someone who wants to actually buy the car, I really hope Tata IS reading these posts. From my perspective, I (along with the others who are "speculating") in a tacit way am coveying to Tata how much we are willing to pay for the car.

From Tata's point, they actually get perspective on what customers might be willing to pay (granted team-bhp is not the perfect demographic, but is still a demographic nevertheless).

True that these posts dilute the other information related posts, but shouldn't be scroned at either.

[nainan]

MORE EXCLUSIVE SPY IMAGES OF THE TATA HARRIER SUV UNDERGOING TESTING

OVERDRIVE has found more images of the widely anticipated Tata Harrier undergoing testing. These images give quite a nice idea of what the Harrier's size will be alongside rivals. We suspect it'll be slightly bigger than the Jeep Compass but following a bit short of the Hyundai Tucson.

The exterior design of the production car will follow Tata's Impact Design 2.0 showcased at the 2018 Auto Expo. So, a slimmer front grille and lights, aggressively contoured side profiles, steeply raked roofline and large wheel sizes can be expected. The interior also will have to be the best ever fitted to a Tata car and build on the progress the firm has been making in this aspect.

The production Harrier (previously the H5X concept) will be based on Jaguar Land Rover's entry-level SUV platform, variations of which support cars like the Land Rover Discovery Sport, Jaguar E-Pace and the Range Rover Evoque. Tata's version, called Omega-Arc (Optimal Modular Efficient Global Advanced Architecture), will involve the use of cheaper materials and components to keep costs down.

The Harrier will be powered by the Multijet II engine from FCA, as seen in the Jeep Compass, in two states of tune - 140PS for the 5-seater version and 170PS for the 7-seater. Both two and four-wheel drive will be available and transmission options will be a 6-speed manual and automatic. The 5-seater should come in the Rs. 9 to 12 lakh price bracket.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by nainan

Mods: I dont want this to be a flame war so request you to step in and clarify if we can/cannot speculate on this thread and I will act according to what you guys recommend. I also think when we merged the 2 Land Rover thread with the H5X thread and now just made it now named Harrier we are neglecting the 7 seater which too is talked about in most Tata press releases.

Please continue with your speculations. I prefer keeping quiet. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Jeevith

True that these post dilute the other information related posts, but shouldn't be scroned at either.

Exactly, speculation based on information about the product is better than wild speculations. Have already mentioned that I might change my mind about retaining my Vista for 3 more years and move to the Harrier if it fits my purpose.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by nainan

Tata has gotten into confused territory with the Harrier. They want the Creta volumes, however since the Creta is smaller in size and an established player but Hyundai has a better brand value. The Compass is comparatively sized better engined and the brand has better value however does not have the volumes. The 5 seater SUV segment is super crowded and coming in with a large 5 seater is at best a big gamble which has worked neither for Hyundai nor Jeep.

They would have had a better chance launching the H7X as the flagship in the XUV/Innova territory which has volumes, they have better brand value(Hexa/Safari) and both in size and seating they compare with the rivals.

.

How do you know that Tata is confused? And even before the product has been launched or the price has been announced?

I sense some individual propaganda here! You feel that the 7 seater should be launched first at XUV prices, and the 5 seater later and probably lower than Creta prices, at least that is what is constantly being stated in your posts, in different posts.


Well, that is your view and wish, so why call Tata confused for that? And your posts almost reflect a situation where Tata has launched the product and it has failed due to pricing!

Lets not get too ahead of ourselves. Each of us have the right to express our view here, but being judgmental about a car manufacturer before the car has been launched and also citing history as the whole reason for that, I am not sure I understand what you want out of this at all!

And if Tata is not launching the 7 seater first, then for sure they have their reasons! May be they do not want to overlap with the Hexa for now. May be they are not ready with the 7 seater or may be their research says that the 5 seater should be launched first. Some one who is spending millions would have got something right, no? And the recent launches by Tata have been spot on in terms of pricing. They have sort of undercut the Ecosport and the Brezza with their pricing and similarly with the Tiago as well.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by nainan

Tata has gotten into confused territory with the Harrier. They want the Creta volumes, however since the Creta is smaller in size and an established player but Hyundai has a better brand value. The Compass is comparatively sized better engined and the brand has better value however does not have the volumes. The 5 seater SUV segment is super crowded and coming in with a large 5 seater is at best a big gamble which has worked neither for Hyundai nor Jeep.

Creta does not rival this product and most smart bhp'ians realize this. If you are desperately looking for a 7 seat vehicle for 15 lacs then I think it's time to stop procrastinating that it will be one of the new Tata's. I suggest the new Marazzo or an xuv. Both already available in the market.

There are smarter people at Tata making decisions, and it is too early to pass judgement on a product that is still not launched.

Once again, this is not a creta rival! Please stop using bhp figures as your only measure of judgement as to which segment this sits in.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by motorworks

How do you know that Tata is confused? And even before the product has been launched or the price has been announced?

I stated the "territory" that Tata has gotten into is confused not that Tata is confused.

I sense some individual propaganda here! You feel that the 7 seater should be launched first at XUV prices, and the 5 seater later and probably lower than Creta prices, at least that is what is constantly being stated in your posts, in different posts.

Please do not see it that way. I had a Safari, switched to a hatch as I did not find a replacement 'I' liked. I do plan to buy a 7 seater and have tried most options available already but am in no great hurry. This is the source of my interest and what got me reading. The rest are opinions and I have stated in each post on what I base each opinion. I would request you to see my posts in that vein.

what you want out of this at all!

Thanks for asking. I think Tata makes good SUVs, I had nothing to complain from mine. I feel they should see much more success than they do currently which will result in better support, dealerships, coverage, trained personnel and spares availability making a better wholesome ownership experience.

Originally Posted by shortbread

..

Do you think that the Tata's have a better brand positioning than Hyundai/Jeep in the current Indian car market? Or do you think that the Harrier will not use FCAs 2.0 Multijet II or do you think that the Hyundai Tucson/Jeep Compass sell the volumes Tata is aiming for to be No: 3 in the PV segment.

If you are desperately looking for a 7 seat vehicle for 15 lacs

I am indeed planning to buy a 7 seater since 2014 when I sold my Safari. However I bought an 'in between' car so am not desperate. I was almost convinced for the Hexa but deferred since these two were being rumored at that time. My next SUV mostly will be a Tata as well looking at the current product lineup and what little we know of the future based on Tata's marketing releases. Now please take your own advise and kindly stop assuming nonsense, I will be Happy to share if you ask.

Please stop using bhp figures as your only measure of judgement as to which segment this sits in.

Again you are assuming that I took 'only' BHP figures. I understand you do not see the Creta as being a rival for the Harrier, I do and I have stated my reasons too.

I see TBHP as a place to discuss, differ, offer opinions, have debates and get information. I have been a reader long before I created an ID too. I think this discussion is becoming too patronizing especially from you. I will desist from any further discussion on this with you as I do not see it as being productive. If you do not like my posts kindly ignore.

[rajshenoy]

Landrover underpinnings, Fiat 2.0 engine, design that is screaming premium-ness inside and out and the sheer size of the beast clearly shows this is a premium offering

The car will surely be VFM as compared to compass, Tuscon and I wish the base model might overlap with top end creta as well

Looking forward to seeing this launch !!

[JKBKS]

I have been reading all the above posts intently and was wondering why are we focusing so much on what Tata should and should not do. And not talking about from what a consumer wants. I am also looking for a 7 seater and am in no hurry to buy. My main decision points (and i consider myself to be a rational buyer) on what to look for when buying a new car are the following:

1. Reliability
2. Ease of Driving
3. Safety
4. Resale value

Tata's quality is increasing progressively but its still not there yet so reliability is still a question mark. And resale is also negligible. We do'nt have much info on Safety and ease of driving but it will be fair to assume that those will be comparable to Tata competitors.

With these data points, the next question is would i pay a premium to buy Harrier over already established brands/cars (Hyundai, Jeep, Toyota, Creta, XUV etc.). The answer to that would be a No.

The reason being if they price it high, i would rather put in an extra couple of lacs more and buy a Toyota/Hyundai as that would ensure peace of mind and a good resale, thereby recovering my initial higher investment.

I think that the best positioning of a 7 seater has been XUVs in the last few years. M&M succeeded in crafting a tremendous value to ensure people give their product a chance. XUV was not close to any established product, i think, with the value it offered so that people could upgrade by paying higher.

So i think Tata has to find a similar positioning (like XUV did) for Harrier and decide (by way of pricing/positioning) if they want to be a niche player or a volume player in the market.

[sreedotk]

Saw this car on my way to the airport. Can’t identify the car but since Mahindra’s R&D is in chennai thought it might be the XUV 700