[ACM]

Originally Posted by condor

I think only the top model is sent for testing. More a standard practice than limited to some manufacturers/ models.

Actually only the base model has to be sent.

Additionally they can get a separate second certification only for top model but that is the second certification not first.

[mroutlander]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

From what I have heard from some sources is that the H7X will be positioned against the XUV500. The Harrier would be cheaper than the XUV.

If it happens, it would indeed be 'shock-and-awe'. XUV500 starts at Rs. 12.5L and if Tata are to undercut that, a mere 10-20k won't do.

Tata must in some mean pricing imbroglio. The question is:

A) Would they be willing to get the sticker price below Rs 12L (say Rs. 11.99L, purely for psychological influence)
B) Would such pricing work in their favor or against it? As aptly mentioned by prakash_ajp and CrAzY dRiVeR, the entry-level trim serves nothing but bragging rights. Wonder how many people would get Harrier just for that.

It would, however, make sense if their mid-level and fully-loaded top trims are competing directly with XUV500 prices. And whether they would eclipse Creta's pricing - well, that would be wishful thinking

[nainan]

Originally Posted by mroutlander

Would such pricing work in their favor or against it? As aptly mentioned by prakash_ajp and CrAzY dRiVeR, the entry-level trim serves nothing but bragging rights. Wonder how many people would get Harrier just for that.

The entry level pricing is for full page adverts where this pricing and top trim features together work in tandem to get people into the showroom. That always works.

On another note I see the Harrier falling into the Aria trap with all premium talk.

[kaviprem]

I don't understand what sense prevails in assuming things about H7X when we are not even sure of H5X!
First, there were people saying H5X has to undercut XUV500 and now H7X has to undercut.
Why a superior product should undercut a relatively less-superior and older model?

Its not against Tata v/s M&M. But, its b/w H7X v/s XUV500.

Prem.

[nainan]

A product is not priced on superiority or inferiority but based on several factors including brand appeal, track record, market studies etc else a much more superior in specs Samsung for example would not sell cheaper than an iPhone.

H7X vs XUV500 is a chapter in the Tata vs M&M saga for the 3rd place in passenger vehicles which Tata has stated is a major goal of their turnaround strategy.

I too think a premium pricing strategy might backfire on Tata. I think the XZ should retail at 15-16 lakhs ex showroom. This pricing will leave room for an auto and the H7X, the sheer value of the proposition will be enough to overcome perception, brand value and the previous reputation.

My 2 cents.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

I don't understand what sense prevails in assuming things about H7X when we are not even sure of H5X!
First, there were people saying H5X has to undercut XUV500 and now H7X has to undercut.
Why a superior product should undercut a relatively less-superior and older model?

I am scratching my head too. I really wish Tata announced their price already just to stop all the speculation and rumor mongering. I am not believing any of the "my source said this and that" stories. I wonder how people can pin their hopes based on rumors and so-called leaks alone. I am sure they have a plan and they would want to stick to it.

Also, the adamance for buying this very car for the very price that one expects or affords is also unfathomable. Why would Tata align their schedule or position their product to suit one or two buyers.
Think about it. If this car is in the same class as Creta, why not buy that proven car from the more reputed company. Why bother with the Harrier.

[srishiva]

Well, Tata is not coming up with anything more than 'pedigree'. I think they want people to expect more from the product and then price it on par with the hype or undercut a little bit and surprise us

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

What I do concern about is that, just because of a brand value, we cannot expect every SUV from TML to undercut a M&M product.

Why? Are there any product advantages otherwise - that a user walking in will get to touch, feel or realize?

Now obviously the first one to come up will be LandRover chasis and pedigree. Great - But then Landrover pedigree without even a basic AWD option, not even on the top end? Neutered pedigree, isn't it - no point repeating that like TATA marketing team would want us to do.

Forget the pedigree and the architecture for a bit and bring in things into the equation that people can actually see, touch and feel in the showrooms - which is what sells products in the end and not the marketing speak.

To a common man -
XUV offers a bigger engine with more power and torque figures.
XUV has an AT option on 4 variants across price band.
XUV has a petrol option.
XUV has the all important (for right or wrong reasons) sunroof
XUV has a 3rd row seating.
XUV has all wheel disc brakes.
XUV has powered seats

Even simple things that make him / her feel good like hydraulic assist for the bonnet, tyre pressure monitoring system, ambient lighting etc.

All the talk about pedigree is going to fall on deaf ears if the people walking into the showrooms cant touch and feel anything but missed out options lists, like all the cancellations happening due to an AT variant not being available. To add to that, media reviews commenting on not able to get a good driving position easily (Missed out power seats!) - will a casual user get it right within his TD window? Or will he notice the NVH during that time instead?

These are the small things that most people notice during their small TDs and what contribute to sales of the product, and no, they can't figure out where the chasis is derived from!

Last argument that comes up is that the TATA is a class act even though Mahindra might have more features, but with all this talk of XUV 5OO - there's also the brilliant Hexa parked in the showroom. Its bigger, built good and is feature loaded - how do showrooms explain the premium then to a common man walking in? And even Hexa starts at 12.5L. Forget the XUV - taking the Hexa XE in comparison puts Harrier XE a tough act above 11.5 ex showroom starting price.

[ChiragM]

Thanks to the Team-BHP fan (he prefers to remain anonymous) who sent this image in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this page!

A render of a blacked out Tata Harrier:


The Tata Harrier is available in 5 colours - Calisto Copper, Thermisto Gold, Ariel Silver, Telesto Grey and Orcus White.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

This post is not as a "Fan boy", but a suggestion to wait for the brand to disclose further details.

I am a fanboy and want to buy a Tata but one "premium" product derailed their entire UV portfolio for the last decade. With Nexon and Hexa they are recovering. Not sure why can we not live with different opinions.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

I am sure they have a plan and they would want to stick to it.

Also, the adamance for buying this very car for the very price that one expects or affords is also unfathomable. Why would Tata align their schedule or position their product to suit one or two buyers.

They do have a plan which has been stated over and over by TML themselves that they want to be No: 3 in the PV segment consistently and hope to achieve this using the Harrier which they have gone on record saying is not going to cost as much as the leaked pricing(he said not to 20 lakhs) and from no less than the President of their PV division. They also expect substantial numbers as given in the same interview.

You should ask that question back to yourself? In all their launches so far the only premium product had to be stripped down to size(Aria & Hexa) so clearly those expecting premium seem to be one or two and not the other way around. Those who have the money for it instead of dreaming exclusivity or hand me downs from a mass market brand should save up for the premium brand from TM which is the Discovery range.

If we for a moment look at the Harrier there are the following pieces from LR:-

• A watered down floor pan
• Front suspension
• Air Conditioner
• Visteon screen

If we were to see what they offer 1&2 give you good ride and handling which is already best in class with the Hexa. Hexa gives you excellent cooling too. Its also bigger, seats more, has a more powerful motor, bigger rims too. So why should a Harrier be costing more than one?

If you have an official source which says different please do share else I request you to express your opinion and let others express theirs. I do not see a reason to be unpleasant for a product being discussed

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Why? Are there any product advantages otherwise - that a user walking in will get to touch, feel or realize?

Yes, the intangibles like ride and handling and suspension and tangibles like the interior quality which by the way is pretty poor in the XUV500. The real question is, whether these values are more important to buyers than features. We know buyers would like a 5 inch touchscreen more than an airbag or ABS.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Now obviously the first one to come up will be LandRover chasis and pedigree. Great - But then Landrover pedigree without even a basic AWD option, not even on the top end? Neutered pedigree, isn't it - no point repeating that like TATA marketing team would want us to do.

And why not? Apart from the clothes that a car wears, a robust underlying structure is the most important component of a car and is the single largest expense when it comes to R&D. It also defines how the car will feel and how it will drive and how it will fare in the long run. Its psychological marketing as well.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Forget the pedigree and the architecture for a bit and bring in things into the equation that people can actually see, touch and feel in the showrooms - which is what sells products in the end and not the marketing speak.

To a common man -
XUV offers a bigger engine with more power and torque figures.
XUV has an AT option on 4 variants across price band.
XUV has a petrol option.
XUV has the all important (for right or wrong reasons) sunroof
XUV has a 3rd row seating.
XUV has all wheel disc brakes.
XUV has powered seats

To a common man
Harrier is the better looker of the two
Harrier has the better looking and better feeling interiors of the two
Harrier has the better infotaintment system of the two - Its got two screens and we all know how two screens are better than one.
Harrier has also got the same chassis as a Land Rover
Harrier is slightly bigger of the two

I dont think having petrol power is an advantage, is infact a disadvantage (more choice is not always better), in a big SUV especially given how pedestrian Mahindra Petrol engines are.

And we dont yet know the price.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Even simple things that make him / her feel good like hydraulic assist for the bonnet, tyre pressure monitoring system, ambient lighting etc.

Please let me know which car in the 10-20 lakh segment has ambient lighting. No placing two LED bulbs in the footwell isnt ambient lighting, its just extra LED bulbs.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

All the talk about pedigree is going to fall on deaf ears if the people walking into the showrooms cant touch and feel anything but missed out options lists, like all the cancellations happening due to an AT variant not being available.

I seriously wonder how this particular scenario is going to play out. A customer walks into a Tata showroom to look at the Harrier and Tata being Tata displays a list on a big screen in the showroom showing people who cancelled their bookings because there is no automatic option.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

To add to that, media reviews commenting on not able to get a good driving position easily (Missed out power seats!) - will a casual user get it right within his TD window? Or will he notice the NVH during that time instead?

I don't think there is an objective answer to ergonomics and not being able to find a good driving position easily does not equate to spending hours getting the seating right.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

These are the small things that most people notice during their small TDs and what contribute to sales of the product, and no, they can't figure out where the chasis is derived from!

Marketing the architecture is not asking the customer to get down on his knees and look at the structure, its a marketing ploy, subconsciously associating sister brands Land Rover with Harrier.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Last argument that comes up is that the TATA is a class act even though Mahindra might have more features, but with all this talk of XUV 5OO - there's also the brilliant Hexa parked in the showroom. Its bigger, built good and is feature loaded - how do showrooms explain the premium then to a common man walking in? And even Hexa starts at 12.5L. Forget the XUV - taking the Hexa XE in comparison puts Harrier XE a tough act above 11.5 ex showroom starting price.

And this is exactly how it plays out in the Mahindra showroom with XUV on one side and the Scorpio on the other. There is TUV300 Plus too. The choice of a product is not always objective else there is no reason why a customer would prefer a Scorpio over a TUV300 Plus. I dont think Tata Motors would mind a customer walking in for Harrier and going for Hexa instead. It is still a new customer and it is still a new sale. Plus 1 either way.

[kaviprem]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Last argument that comes up is that the TATA is a class act even though Mahindra might have more features, but with all this talk of XUV 5OO - there's also the brilliant Hexa parked in the showroom. Its bigger, built good and is feature loaded - how do showrooms explain the premium then to a common man walking in? And even Hexa starts at 12.5L. Forget the XUV - taking the Hexa XE in comparison puts Harrier XE a tough act above 11.5 ex showroom starting price.

Originally Posted by nainan

If we were to see what they offer 1&2 give you good ride and handling which is already best in class with the Hexa. Hexa gives you excellent cooling too. Its also bigger, seats more, has a more powerful motor, bigger rims too. So why should a Harrier be costing more than one?

If you have an official source which says different please do share else I request you to express your opinion and let others express theirs. I do not see a reason to be unpleasant for a product being discussed

1. My intent was NOT to start/resume the TML v/s M&M war here.
2. If you know for sure about the H5X and H7X pricing, you win. If not, there is nothing to discuss further.

Lets give the brand a chance to do "announce".

Prem.

[AirbusCapt]

People will always make a choice. I was in the market for an automatic SUV with a great ride quality and reasonable pricing, the only choices were the Hexa and the Xuv. Between them, the Xuv felt overall cheap in terms of fit and finish, touch points, ride quality, the amount of rattles etc. The Hexa has lesser features, but overall feels leagues ahead of the Xuv, and feels like a entry level luxury product. As someone compared with phones, the Hexa may be a well made onePlus where as the Xuv feels like a Chinese made one like Oppo or Lava, may have more features, but is certainly not the one to be seen carrying in public. The above thoughts are purely my personal thoughts, and not intended to hurt anyone or to question their choices.
My point in putting down the above is to provide a different view point to all the questions against the Harrier's pedigree or the percieved lack of it, and it's suspected pricing vis a vi the competition.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by kaviprem

My intent was NOT to start/resume the TML v/s M&M war here.

It's not about TML v/s M&M, its about Harrier. If XUV comparison is a sensitive topic, compare Hexa XE v/s Harrier XE.

Pedigree monocoque v/s Proper rugged body-on-frame.
All wheel disc brakes.
Bigger in every dimension.
Comes in 6 or 7 seater options in XE variant.

Dual ABS and airbags standard (Same as in Harrier)
Gets Corner Stability Control standard. (Harrier gets only in XZ).

Gets Harman Infotainment + 4 speakers (No touchscreen version) compared to nothing in Harrier XE.
Gets 8 way adjustable drivers seat compared to 4 way ones in Harrier XE.
Comes in the Pearl White, Silver and their highlight colour of blue. Harrier comes only in white like some taxi base variant!

Now if Hexa XE is priced at 12.5L, how much does Harrier XE justify? From the way they have treated Harrier, looks like its sitting below Hexa and won't be getting Hexa rivalling features like AWD or AT till the H7X is ready to replace their flagship next year.

So 11.5L to 15.5L ex-showroom (12.5 to 16.6 for Hexa manual) sounds logical to me, even if you take out all XUV comparisons.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

It's not about TML v/s M&M, its about Harrier. If XUV comparison is a sensitive topic, compare Hexa XE v/s Harrier XE.

Pedigree monocoque v/s Proper rugged body-on-frame.
All wheel disc brakes.
Bigger in every dimension.
Comes in 6 or 7 seater options in XE variant.

Dual ABS and airbags standard (Same as in Harrier)
Gets Corner Stability Control standard. (Harrier gets only in XZ).

Gets Harman Infotainment + 4 speakers (No touchscreen version) compared to nothing in Harrier XE.
Gets 8 way adjustable drivers seat compared to 4 way ones in Harrier XE.
Comes in the Pearl White, Silver and their highlight colour of blue. Harrier comes only in white like some taxi base variant!

Now if Hexa XE is priced at 12.5L, how much does Harrier XE justify? From the way they have treated Harrier, looks like its sitting below Hexa and won't be getting Hexa rivalling features like AWD or AT till the H7X is ready to replace their flagship next year.

So 11.5L to 15.5L ex-showroom (12.5 to 16.6 for Hexa manual) sounds logical to me, even if you take out all XUV comparisons.

Its not an objective evaluation when buying a car. If you are looking for an SUV, why would you even look at the Hexa? Similarly if you are looking at an SUV why would you even look at TUV300 Plus? Your whole argument fails the first question - Is it an SUV? No.