[Shrek123]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

PS: Isn't it better to know about choices upfront? What if you had known about the 7 seater launch just a couple of days after taking delivery of the 5 seater?

Thanks. I agree; it's better to know about the choices upfront. I was referring to the timing of H7X launch announcement. I think people who are sitting on the fence may now be in dilemma whether to wait for H7X which going buy Tata's announcement would be launched around Diwali festivities or go ahead with Harrier. If the H7X dimensions mentioned are indeed true (~60 mm more than Harrier), that's not a big increase in the vehicle footprint (it's not like going from Creta to Hexa/XUV size). Secondly, H7X, even if pricier by a couple of lacs and irrespective of AT or MT, is still a good bargain - more power, optional seating at roughly similar vehicle size. IMHO this may cause few to defer their decision to buy Harrier.

[ihrishi]

Originally Posted by AdiSolEn

The Harrier is a great product, but if the prices that they have hinted are anything to go by, the Hexa does make more sense. My only worry with the Hexa is the product lifecycle though, as the platform + engine combination might not survive beyond 2020 in its current avatar and might need changes to meet the emission norms (please correct me if I am wrong here).

I remember reading in some report that the Hexa will get the Fiat 2L engine in 2020

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by ihrishi

Speaking to Autocar India, Guenter Butschek, CEO & MD, Tata Motors, said the seven-seat Harrier will be part of a “firework of launches in calendar year 2019”.

How cool is that???

Does that sound like Diwali launch for the hatchback and the 7 seater?

[malgudi]

If you read the article then it says that automatic and 7 seater will come almost together before end of 2019. Also there might a chance of they upgrading the engine on Harrier as well.

[Sebring]

The Nexon engine is exceptional. They should have a family of these engines, in different capacties, rather than buy them from Fiat. But I guess they factor in things like, 'if a combustion engine is going to be around - a few years from now'

Originally Posted by ihrishi

I remember reading in some report that the Hexa will get the Fiat 2L engine in 2020

[noopster]

Originally Posted by parrys

My question to all the gurus lashing out, no hard feelings, but will you spend close to 2 million rupees and live with these issues?

Short answer- No.

The Harrier looks beautiful. And this comes from someone who isn’t even a Tata fan as such. If I am to pay 20 big ones for a Tata, only this- or perhaps the Hexa AT- would make the grade.

And yes- 20 L *is* a big amount these days. No doubt about it.

Jalsa77’s Hexa engine head recall thread has already raised alarms in my head. But parrys’ “small but important things” video post has cemented the belief that perhaps this isn’t a fully baked premium offering from Tata yet. Which isn’t particularly a deal-breaker, but it’s always good to know what one is walking into.

Even the XUV500, which today is something of a segment benchmark in terms of value delivered (price vs features), struggled with niggles in its first avatar. All it means is that Tata needs to listen to its user base and make course corrections. Which hopefully they will do.

Incidentally but parrys and jalsa77 are both Team BHP alumni, having worked here before moving on. So I would take their opinions very seriously, if I were a serious buyer!

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by noopster

Incidentally but parrys and jalsa77 are both Team BHP alumni, having worked here before moving on. So I would take their opinions very seriously, if I were a serious buyer!

Equally OT, but, what's your opinion on some of his concerns like the roof line being susceptible to dirt? How is one supposed to take that one seriously? When talking about half baked products, for the sake of everybody's understanding, it will be good to know the reference point for a fully baked product.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Equally OT, but, what's your opinion on some of his concerns like the roof line being susceptible to dirt? How is one supposed to take that one seriously?

Attention to detail?

Parrys has written half a dozen reviews in Team Bhp and also a dozen Auto Expo reports. As i can see, he tried to replicate similar attention to detail in Youtube videos. (I don't think the audience is similar there as Team Bhp, but that's totally OT).

There are about 7 videos in that channel about Harrier guys, not just one alone. See all those videos and comment - I feel it comes across as a pretty fair view. Most people are commenting only on the basis of the improvements video and calling it biased.

And 20L is no small amount. Maruti still hasn't reached anywhere close to selling a car for that price even when they have 54% market share. Hyundai hasn't sold a successful product at that price. I hope TATA does - but getting the improvement areas sorted before launch is only going to make things better, specially when they got a huge gap between media review and launch to act based on feedback.

For the rest - we need to wait for the Team Bhp review to get the actual picture.

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by GTO

More details in our official review. We are currently twiddling our thumbs & waiting for the car in Bombay for our full test; Tata says it'll be here only post launch. Tata's PR department really needs to pull up its socks in terms of making new cars available. It has always been a problem - they are TOO SLOW. The gap between the media drive & us getting the car in Bombay will be like 7 weeks, if not 8.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

...but getting the improvement areas sorted before launch is only going to make things better, specially when they got a huge gap between media review and launch to act based on feedback.

Here GTO is lamenting that TATA has still not provided the car in Bombay for completing the review and that the PR department is to blame. I think the PR department only knows too well how much into detail he will go through with the car. All the more so when an ex-employee, trained by GTO, has already called out the obvious faults.

They want to sort out the bugs and fix the bloopers to avoid being spanked by the teacher.

Forgive them GTO, and grant them the 8 weeks to do it.

[Sebring]

With due respects, I have gone through all the cars he has reviewed and this level of nitpicking is not seen. I can go through the cars he has reviewed, like WRV, XUV, TUV, Scorpio, Baleno, Alturas, Ertiga and Datsun GO and open his eyes to the shocking inconsistencies in those cars - that he has conveniently missed completely. Just because it's a Tata, people take liberties. Not done!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Parrys has written half a dozen reviews in Team Bhp.

[ihrishi]

I have been thinking about the strategy of what Tata is doing. I probably am completely wrong and highly optimistic, but heck, what better place than this to share a few fantasies ;-)

What Tata could be indulging in is to set us all up for some shock and awe.

Pricing is one. It could be so unexpected that all the flaws go right out of the window. And it is necessary to draw crowds to the showrooms.

Second is the colors - Make everyone orange blind and then show a mix bag of colors on launch - and they suddenly look nicer

Third is the accessories - Better designed alloys, customizable interiors and add on packages - there is something in the pipeline, if i recall a report correctly

All in all, 2019 does sound like an interesting year...I am in the market for an SUV at a right time :-D

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Sebring

With due respects, I have gone through all the cars he has reviewed and this level of nitpicking is not seen. I can go through the cars he has reviewed, like WRV, XUV, TUV, Scorpio, Baleno, Alturas, Ertiga and Datsun GO and open his eyes to the shocking inconsistencies in those cars - that he has conveniently missed completely.

I guess there is a bit of difference – the expectation from the likes of an Ertiga or a WRV is not so high compared to the Harrier; this is touted as Tata’s flagship, full-blown entry into the modern era, Land Rover pedigree etc. It is natural to expect the best, or even sound it out so that the production version is devoid of those minor niggles mentioned. This is indeed beneficial for the prospective buyer.

Originally Posted by Sebring

Just because it's a Tata, people take liberties. Not done!

Just because its Tata and it’s the Harrier, these comments probably; no harm in expecting it to be a world-class offering from India.

[Palio_2005]

Originally Posted by parrys

- o.

My question to all the gurus lashing out, no hard feelings, but will you spend close to 2 million rupees and live with these issues?

good that you have pointed it out. Let the car come to showrooms and let people make their own opinions. Issues pointed out may be car specific and some of them are too trivial even to discuss here. prices are relative. There are issues in a 60 lakh mercedes as well


Recalls are part of the learning process of a manufacturer. happen all over the world to leading brands. no need to make it an issue with Tata

[parrys]

Originally Posted by noopster

Short answer- No.

The Harrier looks beautiful. And this comes from someone who isn’t even a Tata fan as such. If I am to pay 20 big ones for a Tata, only this- or perhaps the Hexa AT- would make the grade.

And yes- 20 L *is* a big amount these days. No doubt about it.

Jalsa77’s Hexa engine head recall thread has already raised alarms in my head. But parrys’ “small but important things” video post has cemented the belief that perhaps this isn’t a fully baked premium offering from Tata yet. Which isn’t particularly a deal-breaker, but it’s always good to know what one is walking into.

Even the XUV500, which today is something of a segment benchmark in terms of value delivered (price vs features), struggled with niggles in its first avatar. All it means is that Tata needs to listen to its user base and make course corrections. Which hopefully they will do.

Incidentally but parrys and jalsa77 are both Team BHP alumni, having worked here before moving on. So I would take their opinions very seriously, if I were a serious buyer!

Anoop, thanks for having some faith, even though I have moved on.
All the points mentioned in the video, are just on the lines how we share the smaller and significant stuff.
I am eagerly waiting for the Team-BHP review, and then will see how our loyalists respond. Those pointers, some of them, for a car around this price point, are inexplicable.

Yes, the point of the video is to let people know what they are stepping in to. If the sales guy will push it as a Land Rover, won't people expect it to be one? Not correct to think so, but still, why plant such a seed and then let something else grow out of it.

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

Equally OT, but, what's your opinion on some of his concerns like the roof line being susceptible to dirt? How is one supposed to take that one seriously? When talking about half baked products, for the sake of everybody's understanding, it will be good to know the reference point for a fully baked product.

Buddy, this is not personal.

The point is, the type of material used for the roof liner. I have been doing this for a living since 2011, and in these years, I have come to know what material is going to last. At least I think so. You obviously think I am wrong. But then, ownership reviews will surely highlight this. And the roof liner was also torn (unfinished / unstitched / not covered properly) around the grab rail mountings.

Getting to half baked products, well, I again repeat, the Harrier is almost there. REALLY! But the problem is with the strong marketing around it, one might walk in with very high expectations, and that video is just to put a lid on the over excitement.

What is a fully baked product? It might not be a dynamically rich product, but step inside, and you will not find bad quality plastics, boot lid inner covers will be hard plastic detailed well, no software glitches and the likes. You can help us answer if you have seen a car like that.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Attention to detail?

Parrys has written half a dozen reviews in Team Bhp and also a dozen Auto Expo reports. As i can see, he tried to replicate similar attention to detail in Youtube videos. (I don't think the audience is similar there as Team Bhp, but that's totally OT).

There are about 7 videos in that channel about Harrier guys, not just one alone. See all those videos and comment - I feel it comes across as a pretty fair view. Most people are commenting only on the basis of the improvements video and calling it biased.

And 20L is no small amount. Maruti still hasn't reached anywhere close to selling a car for that price even when they have 54% market share. Hyundai hasn't sold a successful product at that price. I hope TATA does - but getting the improvement areas sorted before launch is only going to make things better, specially when they got a huge gap between media review and launch to act based on feedback.

For the rest - we need to wait for the Team Bhp review to get the actual picture.

Thanks!
My point exactly, there have been multiple positives shared in other content pieces. But fanboys remain fanboys, who are bashing on that single video on YouTube. But to who it matters, it has been received well. And that was the purpose of it, to bring to notice.

Originally Posted by Palio_2005

good that you have pointed it out. Let the car come to showrooms and let people make their own opinions. Issues pointed out may be car specific and some of them are too trivial even to discuss here. prices are relative. There are issues in a 60 lakh mercedes as well


Recalls are part of the learning process of a manufacturer. happen all over the world to leading brands. no need to make it an issue with Tata

23rd of January. Judgement day!

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by parrys

Buddy, this is not personal.

Not personal for me either. Just that it is human nature to cringe on a video that solely focuses on short-comings of a car. Here's an example of its effect in form of a comment:

"Seriously German and Koreans make perfect cars . Tata will remain TATA ONLY"

Now, should I blame this guy for losing the perspective and not understanding your description and disclaimer? There are quite a few comments like this.

The reason why we like Team-Bhp review so much is that it gives the complete picture. It's so nice to see a brutally honest comment followed by a nice compliment.

Originally Posted by parrys

Getting to half baked products, well, I again repeat, the Harrier is almost there. REALLY! But the problem is with the strong marketing around it, one might walk in with very high expectations, and that video is just to put a lid on the over excitement.

This, I agree with. But this context/perspective was lacking in the video of yours.

Originally Posted by parrys

What is a fully baked product? It might not be a dynamically rich product, but step inside, and you will not find bad quality plastics, boot lid inner covers will be hard plastic detailed well, no software glitches and the likes. You can help us answer if you have seen a car like that.

I have to say the onus is on you. Because, I personally don't believe there's a perfect car. If you look hard enough, you can find faults with any car, even an RR. Besides, usage of hard plastics is totally different from software glitch or ceiling lamp coming off. The former is a cost cutting measure while the latter is a real issue.

Anyway, I am already on a demerit point, so, I should stop this discussion with this