[spindoc]

Originally Posted by condor

Looking at all the comments about the supposed shortcomings of the Harrier, I want to suggest to Tata Motors to work on a Transformer. That is possibly the only way they can satisfy the perceived needs of all the people, esp those who have expressed their dissatisfaction over the Harrier with all it's shortcomings like panel gaps, lack of knee space, noise, performance at higher revv's. Or even polish left over in some nook after the vehicle was cleaned before display at the showroom.

It is quite likely that the marketing blitz built up expectations to sky high levels, leading to some level of disappointment with the actual product. It is good in a way, because their campaign has worked well and taken the intended message to the masses.

Of all the observarions, the ergonomics part is a personal thing and cannot be overlooked.

At the end of the day, for a buyer who wants a large, comfortable 5-seater (S)UV with a modern cabin, good ride and handling, safety and amenities, the Harrier still is a compelling option. Tata can certainly iron out any rough edges over the next few months and those to whom this matters could wait until then, for lack of a comparable alternative (space, ride quality, features at similar price levels).

[Guna]

Originally Posted by 1100D

I knew comparing the powertrain performance was baseless, the price bracket also is completely different, so was simply looking at comparing the ride, handling and dynamics on almost the same roads. Looks like the difference of rear suspension and the metals used in the LR platform, really makes it a completely different animal. The ride is something that comes closest, but there is a bit of wallow, not sure if its entirely due to high profile rubber. At the end of the day, since a lot of talk is being made of being based on the LR platform, how much does it percolate to a drive experience, that will require someone to dig deeper and find out.

They have redesigned the rear suspension in the Harrier. It is no more an independent suspension with multi-links but a semi independent, torsional beam type.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by Guna

They have redesigned the rear suspension in the Harrier. It is no more an independent suspension with multi-links but a semi independent, torsional beam type.

Right! I did accommodate that into my post! Infact not just the rear suspension, the unsprung mass, the tyre profile used are all different.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Looks like the difference of rear suspension and the metals used in the LR platform, really makes it a completely different animal. ................... not sure if its entirely due to high profile rubber. At the end of the day, since a lot of talk is being made of being based on the LR platform, how much does it percolate to a drive experience, that will require someone to dig deeper and find out.

[ihrishi]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

A reliable birdie from Tata Motors confirms another variant in working with Sunroof and black shade. Launch timing not confirmed.
Makes things exciting. Personally, I'll love to have both.

Add an AT to that combination and I will book right away. Can you ask your birdie about this?

On a different note, TD'ed the compass yesterday and the panoramic sun roof is so good. It is the closest I can come to owning an convertible in India. Absolutely loved it.

I don't know why, but the driver hand rests on most of the SUVs are literally unusable for drivers with average heights. Its the same on Harrier, Hexa, Compass and Innova. It is set too far back and does not slide.
The XUV's handrest is so much better in this regard.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by damodar

I hope you had adjusted the steering too

I did adjust the steering and yes there is quite some range and I could comfortably hold the steering.

Originally Posted by condor

lack of knee space

Just to clarify there is ample knee space and room in all directions and all seats and the seats are very comfortable. Its just that at the position I am most comfortable with and at the ride height I am most comfortable with my knee bumps against the console. It is a peculiar thing and I have not faced it in any other vehicle including the Harrier/Storme or Nexon so pointed out.

[Dr.Suraj]

I have been reading through this thread and have held back my urge to reply since quite a few days. I was hoping to be able to provide a more factual reply, than just exercise my freedom of access to a keyboard and a good internet connection.

Disclaimer: On my 4th Tata car since 2005. Experienced first hand their lackadaisical approach change towards better products, better service, better reliability and even more value for money. I am still looking to buy more Tata vehicles, but, will not hesitate even for a moment to call them out where they lack or err. With the only intent of trying to help them get better to the best - because they very well can!

Keeping any emotions aside, here is a very logical post about the fit and finish issues in the Harrier.

Visited Concorde Motors, Worli, Mumbai on a Sunday evening at 6:30 pm with my family. Missed meeting fellow BHPian @madhu33 by a mere 3 minutes! (we joined the dots retrospectively). I had gone with the intention of a Nexon TD. Would have loved to do a Tiago JTP & Harrier TD too, if the time permits.

About the showroom: Bustling even on a Sunday evening. Interest in Harrier is very high. Deliveries have started. Bookings are still on, enthusiastically. First time Tata buyers, hesitantly opting for Harrier and also buyers who are seriously confused between the Hexa and the Harrier! Quite a few customers where involved in this discussions very intently. Kind of like heart v/s head situation. Heart wants the Harrier for it's looks and premium feel, features. head says the Hexa AT and 7 seater config and ride quality is supreme and more VFM.
Either way, Tata has managed to get people to their showroom!

There were a total of 4 Harriers that I could see (at first). 2 Orange. 1 Silver. 1 White. (including the TD vehicle).

Here are some pics of the silver, where I found the fit and finish, the panel gaps to be uniform. Consistent. Acceptable and not a problem or eye sore at all!

Please excuse if the pics are not very detailed, as there was a constant queue of people waiting to check out the Harrier.









I have check it out previously when it was up for display at InOrbit mall, Malad. But got a more relaxed chance to indulge in some more things this time around.

Definitely a VERY impressive feat by Tata. Now, just as I thought everything is all hunky dory and was dismissing some posts here... I saw this :





And I had a facepalm moment. Literally. Not wanting to ruin it for other prospective customers, I was quietly about to leave when the really nice and helpful executive asked me why I abruptly stopped exploring further.

Not wanting to ruin his day or fill his mind with any claims, I politely asked him:

"Is this car meant for delivery?'

He said, no. These are just the display cars. Pre-production variants and some media drive variants for TD purposes which are more than a month old.. Delivery cars are the new batch which have just started arriving.

I requested, if I could see some delivery cars. I explained the matter to him. He promptly showed me the white Harrier. Lo and behold! Check it out yoruself guys, this one DOES seem to be made by robots!





Now, I was more charged up. So I went back and forth to the 3 cars to check their VIN number and surely there was a significant difference in the silver & orange ones (older) and the white one. Of course, I could not click a pic of any of these. A statement that I can not support with more evidence is, that I check some more of their delivery Harriers (newer VIN) in Orange shade as well. They were all 'proper'. Did not seem to have any odd welding spots/joints.

Although, I am of the opinion that these are not significant 'flaws', but I do understand some people would want these to be perfect in a 20L vehicle. All I am saying is - THEY ARE! It's all fine! It does not seem as if Tata has messed up. It seems as if, we, as a community of keyboard warriors have jumped the gun too early and filled up pages on something that is definitely not the thing to be discussed about without proper facts and thus, take away the marr the charm of what seems to be a really promising and well made car.

As for panel gaps, per se. Some other members have done a good job of pointing out such 'oddities' in other brands, in other models, in various camera angles too! Some 'gaps' are bound to exist. They are meant by DESIGN. (Worth checking Doug's video of the Mercedes G Wagon and the HUGE gaps in the door, such that one can see inside!) It's the 'uniformity' of the gaps that need to be questioned... which seems proper for now. And on that topic, here's a pic I snapped yesterday. To me, the right side tailgate seems a little further away from the body than the left side. This can also be due to repeated improper closing, or is it just a flaw in the 'pedigree' ... I am sure a few more pages may be filled discussing that.



Over all, IMHO, the Harrier is a massive vehicle, which feels nice to touch, even better to see, appeals to the senses and is a fantastic effort by a home grown manufacturer. There IS attention to detail and it's worth the money. I am yet to drive it - it was 7:45 by the time I was done with all of this and the staff were still busy with TDs of the Harrier for those who had arrived before me. I didn't want to take a TD that late, so the drive, will wait another day.

Definitely looking forward to a Harrier with AT. And, the 7 seats.

Edit: Forgot to mention, there is a noticeable difference in NVH in the more recent TD vehicle that the older one. This is in reference to standing just at the tip of the bonnet and listening to the engine thrum and placing a hand on the front grille. The new one is far more refined and quieter. Definitely acceptable NVH on the inside. The 1.3MJD and soem VAG diesels are far more noisier.

Parting shot of this lovely beast. As another member rightly said, it's a 2BHK on wheels for a small family.



OT - just loved the NEW grill on the Tigor refresh and the illuminated T logo.

[Dr.Naren]

Thanks to Mr. Ashu Mohanty for sharing these pics

Turbo : Honeywell / Garrett

Brake Pads : KBX

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

I have been reading through this thread and have held back my urge to reply since quite a few days. I was hoping to be able to provide a more factual reply, than just exercise my freedom of access to a keyboard and a good internet connection.

I requested, if I could see some delivery cars. I explained the matter to him. He promptly showed me the white Harrier. Lo and behold! Check it out yoruself guys, this one DOES seem to be made by robots!

Edit: Forgot to mention, there is a noticeable difference in NVH in the more recent TD vehicle that the older one. This is in reference to standing just at the tip of the bonnet and listening to the engine thrum and placing a hand on the front grille. The new one is far more refined and quieter. Definitely acceptable NVH on the inside. The 1.3MJD and soem VAG diesels are far more noisier.

Parting shot of this lovely beast. As another member rightly said, it's a 2BHK on wheels for a small family.

Oh thank you very much for your observations! I wanted to visit the nearest Tata showroom, do some analysis and post them, but you beat me .

We should never come to a conclusion after seeing those display/media cars. These should only be initial observations and nothing more.

Oh Yes! First impression is always very important and even some buying decisions are made based on the very first visit. I strongly recommend to prospective buyers to always give the manufacturers a second/third chance before you decide either way.

One more reason why I state the above is those weird ergonomic issues that everyone seems to be experience with every car. It is just a matter of getting used to those switches and buttons . Those ergonomic issues disappear all of a sudden after a couple of more tries.

[Dr.Suraj]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Oh thank you very much for your observations!
One more reason why I state the above is those weird ergonomic issues that everyone seems to be experience with every car. It is just a matter of getting used to those switches and buttons . Those ergonomic issues disappear all of a sudden after a couple of more tries.

Literally, my pleasure!
Yes, TDing a car viz-a-viz living with it everyday does have quite a few differences. The things you can't live with, are instantly known during a TD. For example, for me the red or green backlight of some manufacturers is something I really can't live with everyday, even if I tried. But, like you rightly pointed out, there are a lot of things that one does get used to over a period of time and don't bother you as much - IF - as a whole the product suits your needs and doesn't let you down.

[GTO]

Nice post Suraj. Except:

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Although, I am of the opinion that these are not significant 'flaws', but I do understand some people would want these to be perfect in a 20L vehicle. All I am saying is - THEY ARE! It's all fine! It does not seem as if Tata has messed up. It seems as if, we, as a community of keyboard warriors have jumped the gun too early and filled up pages on something that is definitely not the thing to be discussed about without proper facts and thus, take away the marr the charm of what seems to be a really promising and well made car.

Originally Posted by Nalin1

We should never come to a conclusion after seeing those display/media cars. These should only be initial observations and nothing more.

It is NOT US, but Tata & other manufacturers who need to ensure they put their best foot forward on display cars. A car gets the maximum attention at the time of initial launch and hence, more than ever, these cars need to be perfect. One cannot get away by merely saying "sorry, these are pre-production vehicles". The initial impression made is the lasting impression. Take some more time if required, but when you are keeping vehicles on display, you need to ensure they are exactly what customers will be getting. If you don't do that, well, that's just HORRIBLE marketing & promotions.

Don't blame the customers if it is YOU who hasn't executed your job perfectly. Imagine a restaurant serving pathetic food on its opening night and then telling disappointed patrons "sorry, but these are teething troubles - please come back in a month for the perfect meal". We all know what'll happen to its Zomato ratings.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

Absolutely spot on! Media drive, showroom display and test drive cars should be as flawless as possible because these are the cars that'll convert prospects into customers.

Is it possible that the media drive cars (pre-production) were bought by the dealers at bargain prices to use as showroom display/demo cars? Could that explain the quality issues and/or deterioration of the parts highlighted?

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

I politely asked him:
"Is this car meant for delivery?'
He said, no. These are just the display cars. Pre-production variants and some media drive variants for TD purposes which are more than a month old.. Delivery cars are the new batch which have just started arriving.

Seems like my hunch was right. So these indeed are media drive vehicles! IMHO, the showrooms should replace these with proper production models asap. You specifically asked the SA and got this reply, many prospective customers might not ask and just assume the worst. All the media hype and marketing has brought the customers into the showroom, now is the time to dazzle them with the actual look and feel of the car and not leave them disappointed just at the threshold.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by nainan

Just to clarify there is ample knee space and room in all directions and all seats and the seats are very comfortable. Its just that at the position I am most comfortable with and at the ride height I am most comfortable with my knee bumps against the console. It is a peculiar thing and I have not faced it in any other vehicle including the Harrier/Storme or Nexon so pointed out.

Every one has a different posture. In almost every car my knee bumps the dashboard, if I keep the seat at a position where the steering is comfortable to reach. Rare few cars where this is not an issue are Maruti Omni, Ford Ecosport with steering reach at extreme pull. Tata Safari.
In my daily drive the Nissan Terrano I find the clutch too hard, steering and gear lever too far, infact too many gear changes means a shoulder ache later.


Others may be finding these very cars comfortable. So one buy's a car with ergonomics suitable to them after long test drives. Blaming a car for wrong ergonomics is wrong.

Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj

Disclaimer: On my 4th Tata car since 2005. Experienced first hand their lackadaisical approach change towards better products, better service, better reliability and even more value for money. I am still looking to buy more Tata vehicles, but, will not hesitate even for a moment to call them out where they lack or err. With the only intent of trying to help them get better to the best - because they very well can!

There was a time when I did the same. One Tata Estate, one Indigo and two Indicas of which one was used for 3.24 Lakh km 1 Lakh by me, rest by office staff. Later I shifted to Toyota and then VW as my dealer changed dealership from Tata to VW. After many years I'm thinking of returning to Tata.

After considering the Harrier I'm not convinced, and may rather go in for a Hexa, I'm just waiting to confirm weather the current 2.2 will upgrade to Euro VI or weather a new engine comes up.


Rahul

[GTO]

Thanks to a Team-BHP Fan (who prefers to stay anonymous) for sending this image in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Breaks my heart to see such a handsome car like this. First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi:

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by GTO

First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi:

The guy was probably trying to disprove claims that the headlights will be easily damaged in an accident, but missed by a bit.

OR he read the comments here that showrooms should not display pre-production vehicles and wanted to do something proactively.

But seriously, very sad to see. The bonnet has not crumpled too much though.

[nettooran]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks to a Team-BHP Fan (who prefers to stay anonymous) for sending this image in. Heartfelt gratitude for sharing it with other enthusiasts via this Team-BHP page!

Breaks my heart to see such a handsome car like this. First Harrier to be crashed by an employee of Concorde Prabhadevi:

The sad part is that the showroom guys are gonna repair it and sell it to some unsuspecting customer.