[tharian]

Got a short drive on the Harrier from the showroom.

Must say it is comfortable to drive in city for it's size. Gearshifts and steering is almost sedan like. The engine note although was a bit boomy in cabin when picking up speed, but was smooth and linear.
Was surprised to see the solid rear axle for a car in this segment.

I hope this does well since TATA has done a good job as a package.

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by pavi

Isn’t this an example of ‘milking’ rather than being pure or something like that. We had seen how the macho Scorpio performed in the crash test, I think the Swift was better. So when you get returns/profit on an old product with out any changes for a long time, you ride on that forever. So until and unless the market demand changes or government mandates come in, changes are not necessary. Now it is a SUV (shape) craze era, so let’s give the market some SUVs (shaped cars). People buy these CSUVs because of their single capability to tackle potholes and speed bumps with out scrapping the bottom. But I would agree that is the biggest capability any car in India could have

Note : Manufacturers are increasing the ground clearance of sedans too now a days, I pray the remaining sedans don’t end up like a current generation Linea or a Corolla.

As someone said, “Market demand”, like politics, is the last refuge of scoundrels! Anything and everything (including dodging safety issues and real technical prowess) can be swept under the carpet.

As for safety compliance (read NCAP), putting a couple of air-bags here and there & and adding fancy seat belts is a neat way of pulling wool over the public’s eyes & neatly side-stepping statutory requirements, while escaping the developmental costs of real structural safety reinforcements - the way Volvo has done over the years. And the less said about the efficacy of air bags, the better – there are numerous examples of air-bags failing to deploy in the event of real accidents (unlike the choreographed slow-motion videos of the NCAP tests!) resulting in fatalities. An example is mentioned in our forum (I forget the thread now), where a Mercedes S-class travelling at over 80 km/hr, had a major shunt on the highway and the air bag failed to deploy, resulting in a fatality.

N.B. - Mods I realize the above maybe going way OT and if you delete the post, I shall understand.

[uday.ere]

Tata Harrier Telesto Grey colour.
Source : Tata Harrier owners group on Facebook

[GTO]

And so, the Tata Harrier finally arrives!!! I had some work in Pune over the weekend, so what better car to take on the 300 km round-trip than the Harrier.

Disclaimer = My quick + short review below. Full details will follow in our Official Review (as always).

In a nutshell, the Harrier is a “good” SUV, not “great”. It certainly didn’t impress me as much as say, the Hexa did at the time of its launch, or the Nexon. IMHO, it feels like Tata has rushed into launching the car. I’d much rather they’d have taken another 6 – 12 months and launched a perfectly sorted car (if you are considering buying one, I recommend waiting for the 2020 Harrier with all its rough edges ironed out). The car definitely has the potential to be “great”, but for that to happen, Tata has to really polish the car & pull the weeds out.

First, the looks. My god, what a stunner…absolute W-O-W. Tata’s designers can make a van look good (Hexa), as well as a compact sedan (Tigor), thus it’s no wonder that their SUV is a head-turner. I’m a big, big fan of Tata’s mature & classy design language. Solid, heavy & abuse-friendly feeling build too (Compass is better though). Ingress & egress are easy and the cabin is spacious. Again, I love Tata’s classy cabins. I liked the fake wood paneling as well, but not the chocolate brown colour of the seats. Interior quality? For a 20-lakh OTR car = good in some areas, acceptable in some and cheap in a few. No owner will complain. Contrary to popular opinion, I’m fond of the steering wheel design! The steering is thick & meaty to hold, although the horn pad’s plastic quality feels cheap. Am very particular about my perfect driving position and was able to easily find it (unlike some other BHPians). Especially liked the reach-adjustment of the steering wheel, even for my laid-back driving position. On the flip side, the dead pedal is useless. The adjustable lumbar support on the driver’s seat is superb. Those with a weak lower back will become fans of this seat. The sound system is absolutely top class! I prefer the bass & treble turned all the way up. Punch was enough to make the IRVM vibrate & the treble can become really sharp. You will LOVE the sound. With such competent factory ICE, the after-market audio scene is slowly dying.

With the tall seating position, you have a clean view of the road ahead. One can even see the contours of the muscular bonnet. The ORVMs are XL-sized, as if someone zoomed in 2X on the design and sent it for production; great view of all the action behind (especially great view for highway drives), but it creates ugly blind-spots along with the A-Pillar. Be careful. The steering at parking speeds is a little heavier than expected and requires effort. Owners will not be pleased. As you start driving though, I found the steering weight to be perfect in the city. Surprisingly, the gear shifter is notchy, especially for the 1st & 2nd gears which you’ll use most frequently. Its gates are well defined though. Tata has been careless here and should have made it light + smooth (no rocket science in accomplishing that). The clutch of our brand new test car is neither light nor heavy – it’s middle of the way & a bit longer in travel than the usual monocoque crossovers. The engine’s low end is superb, as is typical of big diesel engines. 2nd gear speed breaker test? Passes it with flying colours. Heck, I could even move away from 0 kph in 2nd gear itself. You won’t be excessively using the gear shifter in the city. As good as the driveability is though, don’t lug it in 3rd…she will stall. The engine offers quick performance and even has a strong mid-range. It’s very punchy between 2,000 – 4,000 rpm. That said, damn thing starts getting loud at 3,000 rpm and is absolutely shouting at 4,000+ rpm. Worse still, the engine note is SAD. Your passengers will shriek and you’ll be forced to upshift. Just as well since the motor starts running out of breath after ~4,200 rpm. It’s not got much to offer above 4,000 rpm.

Ride quality is mature, but has a firm edge to it. It’s compliant…yet not what I would call plush like the Duster & Hexa. No comparison. The sharpness of potholes is felt inside and even at expressway speeds, you will always be aware of the kind of road you are driving on. This isn’t a car that will flatten bad roads like the Duster or Hexa. Don’t get me wrong – it is COMPLIANT and my passengers had no complaints, but it’s not plush. Further, I found the front suspension to be softer / more compliant than the rear.

The engine is quick on the open road and you can make fast progress (not Compass fast though). The mid-range is just fantastic….very addictive. If you want to cruise too, this 2.0L diesel & 6th gear give the Harrier very long legs. 100 kmph is at merely ~1800 rpm, while 120 is at ~2200. On the flip side, as mentioned before, the engine has no top end to speak of and gets awfully noisy. Straight line stability is good even at high speeds. However, the hydraulic steering is poorly calibrated (I'll give it a 4 / 10 rating). While it’s heavier than expected at parking speeds, darn thing is too light & sensitive at expressway speeds. That makes the front end feel twitchy. At slow speeds, you have to put extra effort with the steering; on the other hand, at high speeds, you have to be careful to be slow & subtle with your inputs. Lastly, the steering feels wooden at certain speeds. All in all, this is a disappointing hydraulic steering.

Grip levels from the 235 mm tyres are satisfactory, yet this isn’t an SUV that I’d call a corner carver at all. Body roll is there and you feel the Harrier’s height. The sensitive steering comes into play again and it made me back off on the fast Lonavla ghats that I’m very familiar with. While the Harrier is okay at regular layman speeds, it does feel nervous in high speed cornering. The Compass will run rings around it. Even if the Creta doesn’t have the Harrier’s solidity, the smaller & lighter Hyundai will outhandle it. No questions there. The bite from the brake pedal is sharp. Will take some getting used to when you are new to the car. The braking capability is fine and I had no complaints. Didn’t do brake testing from high speeds as I had my family onboard (Aditya will update you on that in his full review).

As is obvious, the product has positive attributes, although there are a LOT of loose ends that need to be tied up. The issues are all related to tuning or attention-to-quality and Tata should’ve taken another 6 – 12 months to tidy things up. If I were a potential Harrier customer, I’d wait for the 2020 car, if not 2021. If Tata irons all the wrinkles out, it could be promoted from a “good” car to a “great” one.

Some other miscellaneous notes:

• After the Nexon’s 5-star rating in the NCAP crash tests, I’m confident of the Harrier being a safe car as well. But they first need to sort out that hydraulic steering whose behavior is so poor at high speeds.

• I loved the handbrake from a design point of view. But they need to work on the execution & plastic quality there – it feels clunky & cheap to operate. Also squeaks & creaks as you engage it. The release action feels especially cheap (release sound is similar to that of plastic cracking).

• Drivetrain vibrations are felt on the pedals, especially the clutch. They go up with the rpm needle. In terms of refinement, there is no comparison with the butter-smooth Creta.

• Big fan of the digital area of the instrument cluster. Superb quality graphics. The entire cluster should have been a size or two bigger though.

• If you leave the engine running and walk away with the smartkey in your pocket, the car starts honking continuously. This is a must-have warning in any car with passive keyless entry & go. All others should adopt it.

• 120 kmph continuous warning alert is terribly annoying. Although we can’t argue with the sensibilities behind that government rule.

• In addition to the 80 & 120 kmph audible alerts, a small orange coloured “speed limit” sign comes on (below the temp gauge) when you cross 80 kmph.

• Cabin shake on startup is noticeable.

• Loved the dual-tone horn! A tasteful choice.

• Bluetooth audio always starts on volume 0 (say, after an engine restart). I found this irritating. It should either remember the last volume level or start at a safe middle-of-the-ground one.

• Lots of attention & appreciation from others on the road. And this in a silver car! Can only imagine what the orange will be like. 1 guy said “can’t believe the kind of cars that are now being manufactured by Indian car makers” and I have to agree. This kind of car was unthinkable 10 years back. Additionally, I noticed expressway users moving out for me more often than I expected. Guess it’s the imposing front and those wicked DRLs.

• Horrible reversing camera. Looks like a cheap 100-rupee Chinese import. ICE display is otherwise good, so I’m blaming the camera unit.

• Had parked the Harrier overnight and got to it at 1430 hours. It was directly under the blazing sun and therefore, the cabin was baking hot! Started the car and rolled down all the windows. In about 40 seconds or so, it was already blowing out cool air! I thought that’s pretty quick (outside temperature was 37 degrees).

• Not giving an Automatic in a segment that loves ATs shows that Tata simply hasn’t done its homework. The Hexa’s automatic gearbox is superbly tuned, so Tata definitely has the skill to pull it off. They’re going to lose a lot of customers because of the missing AT. Jeep India has been careless too in not offering the AT on the Compass (same engine).

• Position of door handle & power window console is too close to the driver. And that’s for me @ 5' 10”. Shorter folk will find it to be an ergonomic disaster as they’ll have to really bend their arms to use it.

• After about 3 hours of starting the engine and 2.5 hours of continuous driving, a prompt came up on the MID telling me to “take a break”. Sweet & sensible suggestion.

• It’s no Creta slayer. The Creta’s target customer isn’t going to be swayed by the Harrier. The Creta doesn’t have Tata’s brand baggage, is way more refined and far easier to drive in the city. The Creta seems very polished, where the Harrier comes across as a work-in-progress with rough edges. The fact that the Creta is cheaper will make it a no-brainer for most people. If I was in the market, I’d prefer a lower variant of the Compass to the higher variants of the Harrier. To me, the driving experience is very important. Plus, there are discounts on the Compass too, making the price difference fair (note: I’m not price sensitive & neither are many 20-lakh customers). Sure, the Compass has niggles, but I don’t expect a brand-new Tata to be a saint either. Main disadvantage of the Compass vs the Harrier is not the price, but the smaller cabin (especially rear seat).

• Some people said that the wheels look small. No way, I think they are perfect. Plus, on Indian roads, I’ll any day pick smaller wheels + larger tyre profiles than the other way around for SUVs.

• There is nose dive under braking. And nose rise under sudden acceleration!

• Super tall dudes might find the driving seat’s fore & aft adjustment to be limited (intentionally?). I drove it with the setting all the way behind (I'm 5'10").

• Almost no wind noise at 100 kmph. Good insulation.

• Surprised to see a torsion-beam rear suspension. Would have expected an independent rear which the XUV500 offers (but the Creta doesn’t).

• Air-con blower calibration needs to be tweaked. It throws out quite a lot of air even on level 1. I was driving under the hot blazing afternoon sun on Saturday and used either level 1 or 2. Level 2 is like the level 3 of other cars. If you like the air flow to be soft (as I do), you'll have to move the vents away from you. Air-con has powerful cooling capability.

• Don’t go just by the on-paper specs. The boot’s rating @ 425 liters might be smaller than cheaper competitors (e.g. Duster), yet it’s practical and has a good layout. I easily fit 5 bags in.

• The Compass’ kerb weight is about the same as the Harrier. Yet, the Compass feels more agile while cornering. The Jeep is a LOT more fun to drive fast.

• Hill hold will hold the car for 3 seconds on an incline, giving you enough time to move your foot away from the brake and get the car moving.

• IMHO, if Tata had brought out a fully finished product and with a competent optional AT, the Harrier could have been a game-changer. It’s missed that opportunity just because the Pune folks didn’t prepare for this important launch as well as they should have. Weird that they seemed to have been better prepared with the Hexa which was a less crucial product. Here’s a BHPian who drove the Hexa & Harrier, was put off by the latter and bought the Hexa (link).

Looks drop-dead gorgeous at night with those DRLs. Whoever thought of the headlamp's unique placement is a genius:


The classiness continues...this is the puddle lamp:


Digital area of the instrument cluster looks sexy. Too small though. Also, the grey rpm markings between the numbers are impossible to read during the day:


At times, the needle would stop at 4 kmph when the car was stationary. Once, I saw it resting at 10 kmph!


More niggles. Button to scroll through the MID would get stuck at times:


Appalling lack of attention-to-detail is inexcusable in a 20-lakh car. See how the numbering is all crooked:


I didn't face that reported problem of the left leg rubbing against the center console (as posted by other BHPians). Maybe it only affects shorter / heavier folks? This is with the clutch pedal all the way up...


...and all the way in:


Adjustable lumbar support is fantastic! You'll appreciate it on long drives:


Yikes! Sure didn't expect this in a 20-lakh car. Forget a mirror, there's not even a strap to hold toll tickets. Looks so plain-jane & economy grade:


As someone who is constantly sipping on water, space for multiple bottles is welcome (I think you could fit a 3rd in too):


Poor quality reversing camera. Wonder how this made it to production?


XL-sized ORVMs are terrific, especially on the highway. They do create big blindspots though, so you have to be very careful in the city. At junctions, I had to stretch forward & ahead of the A-Pillar to make sure there's no biker I've missed:


Superb pattern on the mats. Manufacturers should experiment like this, instead of the usual boring mats we see:


5 bags (mix of small + medium) was an easy fit. Boot has a practical layout, but the loading lip is too high. Like a body-on-frame SUV:


Look at the top 3 and you know what the public is comparing the Harrier to:

[Guna]

Originally Posted by GTO

Don’t get me wrong – it is COMPLIANT and my passengers had no complaints, but it’s not plush. Further, I found the front suspension to be softer / more compliant than the rear.



• There is nose dive under braking. And nose rise under sudden acceleration!

When I read that they have reworked the rear suspension (in to a 'semi independent, torsional beam type' from 'multi link, independent' on the Discovery platform) somehow I was thinking that it may loose the integrity/cohesiveness. Slightly stiffer set up at the front may solve the problem.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by GTO

Look at the top 3 and you know what the public is comparing the Harrier to

Strange to see Harrier vs Creta on the top, so many people are then comparing the two! IMO, apart from a slight overlap in prices, both these cars are very different from each other in terms of design, fit & finish, dimensions and engines. I am very curious to know the thought process of someone who's shortlisted both these cars!

[aniyo]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

Strange to see Harrier vs Creta on the top, so many people are then comparing the two! IMO, apart from a slight overlap in prices, both these cars are very different from each other in terms of design, fit & finish, dimensions and engines. I am very curious to know the thought process of someone who's shortlisted both these cars!

We did and ended up buying the Nexon
Actually our logic was something like this
1. Initial budget to 12-13 Lakhs (Full cash payment)
2. Then felt why not proper cross-over so checked Creta and Duster.
3. Duster was eliminated for obvious reasons
4. Thanks to the variant split only 1.6SX diesel made sense.
5. This costs about 17L on road Bengaluru
6. XM and XT are in striking distance at 17.5 and 18.5 resp.
7. In terms of EMI difference is hardly 4K. We get a bigger car and engine.
8. Parents and wife drilled sense and ended up with Nexon.
We could not understand the 5-5.5L premium Creta charged over the nexon. 3 odd Lakhs and we would have taken the Creta but 5.5L was too much for us.

[AirbusCapt]

Any reason why Tata motors has such shoddy fit and finish on the Harrier when they have top notch fit and finish on the Hexa, Nexon and even the Tiago? Plus lack of attention to detail. Post the Hexa and Nexon I felt that Tata had got their act together, but with the Harrier they went back in time to the 2.2 Safari Dicor era.

[JoshMachine]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

Got ours two days back.
# Bonnet 'HARRIER' Mascot - 1685

Congrats! The Harrier is a looker in 'White'.
The bonnet mascot sign costs 1685!? What's it made of
The side steps seem very precise in terms of fit and finish.

Please do share initial views on driving and general dealer buying experience, do the folks at Tata give special consideration as compared to a Hexa purchase?

[digitalnirvana]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Any reason why Tata motors has such shoddy fit and finish on the Harrier when they have top notch fit and finish on the Hexa, Nexon and even the Tiago? Plus lack of attention to detail. Post the Hexa and Nexon I felt that Tata had got their act together, but with the Harrier they went back in time to the 2.2 Safari Dicor era.

As far as I recall, the Nexon is from the Ranjangaon plant shared with FCA for the compass. Even the Nexon had a few minor QA issues when launched. The Tiago and the Hexa arguably had the most attention to detail and right-first-time implementation for the initial batches. So much so that people could actually buy with confidence without waiting for the "v2". And that certainly did contribute towards the positive word of mouth publicity that the Tiago enjoyed.

The Harrier is from a brand new line for the OMEGA ARC, at Pimpri. One that was built in a record six months and boasts of 90%+ automation using 100+ robots. Perhaps that's where the gremlins are.

Today I read a long article about how Boeing rushed the 737 Max8 with record speed of design to tarmac. I know I am comparing apples to oranges but with so many experienced voices using the term "rushed" for the Harrier I can't help but feel that maybe, maybe TML should have targeted a June-Sep launch and delivered a near flawless user experience right off the bat. Perhaps they needed to have the first mover advantage (with the upcoming MG & the Kia sporting a similar looking front).

Getting a brand new assembly line working seamlessly is no joke, and I wish they do it ASAP. A strong TML is good for the Indian car industry and the Harrier is a good product. I just wish, like GTO says, that it was a great one.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by GTO

Looks drop-dead gorgeous at night with those DRLs. Whoever thought of the headlamp's unique placement is a genius:
Attachment 1863092

why are the low beams lamps the inner ones within the dual barrel setup ? shouldn't it be the other way around ? usually low beams are the outer barrel lamps, so that the vehicle width is adequately informed to the oncoming traffic. Or maybe they thought since the eyebrow DRL is there, it doesn't matter ?

[amit1agrawal]

Originally Posted by aniyo

We did and ended up buying the Nexon
Actually our logic was something like this
1. Initial budget to 12-13 Lakhs (Full cash payment)
2. Then felt why not proper cross-over so checked Creta and Duster.
3. Duster was eliminated for obvious reasons
4. Thanks to the variant split only 1.6SX diesel made sense.
5. This costs about 17L on road Bengaluru
6. XM and XT are in striking distance at 17.5 and 18.5 resp.
7. In terms of EMI difference is hardly 4K. We get a bigger car and engine.
8. Parents and wife drilled sense and ended up with Nexon.
We could not understand the 5-5.5L premium Creta charged over the nexon. 3 odd Lakhs and we would have taken the Creta but 5.5L was too much for us.

Couldn't agree more. I also think that Creta is ~2.5L on-road overpriced than what it deserves to be.

[nerd1200]

I feel that TaMo rushed this launch to make way for Cassini's reveal. Also, (almost) all my gripes with the Harrier gets addressed with the Cassini.

1. All wheel disc brakes
2. Higher power output (since Compass has the same engine at a higher state of tune. BHPians going for the Harrier would surely toy with the idea of a remap few months down the line)
3. Auto transmission

The last thing I'd like is to have rear independent suspensions, not sure if the Cassini would have it.

Having said that, I would not buy the Cassini since I don't need a 7 seater and I like the Harrier's design better (The same way as I'd prefer the GLE over the GLS even though both look similar upto the B piller). I can still live with the fit and finish, considering no vehicle is perfect (I would look at the Germans for immaculate fit & finish, the Koreans for refinement, etc.).

The Harrier with the above points addressed could have had my money.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by AirbusCapt

Any reason why Tata motors has such shoddy fit and finish on the Harrier when they have top notch fit and finish on the Hexa, Nexon and even the Tiago?.

Which part of the Harrier is ‘shoddy’?

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by GTO

If I was in the market, I’d prefer a lower variant of the Compass to the higher variants of the Harrier. To me, the driving experience is very important. Plus, there are discounts on the Compass too, making the price difference fair (note: I’m not price sensitive & neither are many 20-lakh customers). Sure, the Compass has niggles, but I don’t expect a brand-new Tata to be a saint either. Main disadvantage of the Compass vs the Harrier is not the price, but the smaller cabin (especially rear seat).

Thanks a lot for this short review. It just reaffirmed my decision to go ahead with Compass. Yes, the driving experience is something which the Compass scores big time. I didn't have anything against Harrier but it didn't convince us enough and at the same the discounts in Compass helped to narrow the gap. Space is a compromise though but still it feels like an upgrade for us coming from Linea.